Hurdles of being SD tier 2

[ValiantSalvatore]

Just now, Matt23 said:

Seems to me his EQ would be pretty good and high.  Seems robust enough to handle lots of perspectives and situations etc. and from the obviously limited knowledge we have of who he is, from his YT clips etc., he's displayed pretty grounded, calm-cool-collected EQ and the ability to listen empathically a lot when talking with people (asking questions, and he seems like he really listens and takes in what others say).  He was a counsellor/therapist I know for a bit too. Dunno how long. 

Also, looking at the people he interacts with/is friends with (not only interacts with, but leads and runs/co-creates big projects and organizations with), people who to me seem like very "developed" people, I don't think you just do those things and are in those circles (again, not just "in the circle" socially, but leading and doing big projects with) without having a high degree of emotional intelligence.   I could be wrong though of course.  I dunno what it's actually like from his/their perspectives.  

Obviously we're running into a problem of categorizing people based on limited video clips, anecdotes, work resumes, and any writings they've published.  As well as using partial theories in which we're doing the categorizations as well.  

But, just my impression is the opposite.  Interesting.

Agree! I barely watch him as I don't like him personally as he does not push himself to Tier3 like most psychologits and westerners and for example Freud was afraid of eastern philosophy and stuff. I would not argue he is at full TQ as I feel a lot of rest/peace states personally when I feel like I am fully at TQ from a personal experience (TQ = turquoise..). I could watch and learn more from him, although I find Leo to be for example of higher development even with shadow etc. 

Sometimes I feel when I watched Schmachtenberger at the past, when all of this JP stuff happend he functioned more from a lean functional emotional self, that cares about epistomology and sharing of information and finding global solutions sort of. That was my impression I barely watch him, as have a lot of hickups in blue/orange stages. As I had a very very Green upbringing. 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2br1K6V6l3kmeBhbEugF6w/videos

This channel is also good for a direct practical explanation that shows sort of how "normal" teal is some of the members don't even think they are there, as it's so difficult to proove at and there is the steady bias of burden of proof.

[Matt23]

10 minutes ago, thepixelmonk said:

LOL seriously so many people on this forum need to get real.

Brah... you don't even know.  

I'm soooo Tier-2 you can't even understand since... since... I'm just better than you since I said so and there's a theory I can use to justify my claim of superiority over you (i.e. basically any ideology/religion used by people [obviously not "everyone"]).  Same shit, different color).  

 

Honestly though, there's truth to what you say. 

But also, I see it more so like ya... we can take this stuff too seriously.  But also, it can be fun to nerd-out on this stuff and debate.  Like, it's not bad unless you sense it's becoming too serious and dogmatic and like "it's the truth"...maybe we lean there sometimes. 

It seems like it could similar in that regard to anything really; like soccer, sports, video games, board games, books etc... anything that develops a fan-base where people get really into it and start arguing, debating, creating new things about w/e it is.  Like, it's just fun (hopefully...), and I love ya'll that do it and appreciate bits of it from time to time.   

Edited November 13, 2022 by Matt23

[ValiantSalvatore]

The spiritual line is endless, so and all of this stuff is so complicated. You can most likely tell when to take the debate and not. I stopped arguing after seeing Leo's blog why debates don't work.

Psychdelics for example are an Orange/Green phenomena and Green/Orange when reading about psychedelics it's nothing very new imo. Just to gather and harness the experiences of it is the new stuff. Most lack proper moral contemplations about all-beings and love for example which get's for me personally close to total ego dissolvement, altough. I do have issues at lower practical stages out of decisions I made and high goals/visions. 

I dunno at best reading and watching the videos doing the work. Meditation/Psychcedelics/Shadow Work etc. is all quiet rough. Also many are different. I have a strong stage green self-expressive drive that I need to take care of before I can self-actualize for example. That is why I journal a lot, a differnt form of art gives me more leverage to self-actualize. All of these theories build an AQAL building TOE's and AQAL's is highly important imo... otherwise you are not really TIER2. Everyone can be enlightened even at stage beige/red/blue/purple. As the spiritual line is endless.  

I meet enough drug lords to tell the difference till now .

Leo even made an entire playlist:

(1/11)

Technical clarity is sort of an issue. As so much of this stuff is the same...
 

This episode is especially good, even just as a small reminder etc. Many here now are legit imo here. Language for example is it's own game. etc. etc. 

Edited November 13, 2022 by ValiantSalvatore

[Raptorsin7]

I uses to believe I was tier 2 yellow, but now I believe I'm blue/orange and in the process of evolving green qualities. 

[Ulax]

I think a key thing that causes confusion is that I understand spiral dynamics to be a tracker of cognitive development.

I think someone can have a high level of cognitive development but have low emotional development. I think I remember Leo saying the same in one of his videos too.

[StarStruck]

23 hours ago, ThePoint said:

2 years ago I was hovering around Yellow, but I was still working on integrating Orange. 

After getting both physical and mental health problems I think I’ve regressed to Stage Beige. I think my Orange pursuits may have contributed to me burning out in some way.
Now I am the opposite of who I used to be and I now have addictions/coping mechanisms like masturbation and food.

I can’t actually accurately map myself anywhere at this point. Spiral Dynamics assumes you are relatively healthy. 

Your spiral stage can change depending on circumstances and situations.

For example, if you’re in a high risk, dangerous environment like some parts of the world, you’ll mostly have to be in Stage Red in order to survive. 

So health problems can be a huge hurdle.
 

Another hurdle is frustration with the ideals Tier 2 has and the speed at which those ideals can be actualized. E.g. they can have visions of where society could be but there’s so much inertia in society that it would take a long time for it to get to the point they envision. 

Is it possible to bounce up from all the way to yellow down to beige? I think once you reach a baseline of certain values you stay there but I'm not sure.

Edited November 14, 2022 by StarStruck

[Phil777]

12 hours ago, Matt23 said:

Brah... you don't even know.  

I'm soooo Tier-2 you can't even understand since... since... I'm just better than you since I said so and there's a theory I can use to justify my claim of superiority over you (i.e. basically any ideology/religion used by people [obviously not "everyone"]).  Same shit, different color).  

 

Honestly though, there's truth to what you say. 

But also, I see it more so like ya... we can take this stuff too seriously.  But also, it can be fun to nerd-out on this stuff and debate.  Like, it's not bad unless you sense it's becoming too serious and dogmatic and like "it's the truth"...maybe we lean there sometimes. 

It seems like it could similar in that regard to anything really; like soccer, sports, video games, board games, books etc... anything that develops a fan-base where people get really into it and start arguing, debating, creating new things about w/e it is.  Like, it's just fun (hopefully...), and I love ya'll that do it and appreciate bits of it from time to time.   

I see. Not to dismiss your experience, you do you, but I honestly think this is just a waste of time and can actually be damaging (for the pursuit of truth and genuine development)

If you wanna nerd out about stuff, do it. For me this would be sharing and talking about music. While I nerd out like that (seldom), I am completely aware that we are all just sharing our relative experiences and preferences for fun on a subjective or constructed topic (e.g. video games)

Spiral dynamic on the other hand, if looked at through this playful perspective, is just a nice little ego enhancing circle jerk. Why speculate about the nature of reality like that? What's the point? Beware, because when you are trying to frame actual reality like that, this can have pretty clear consequences. It's not all fun and games because as soon as you do that you are creating filters of reality that limit the depth and breadth of your understanding. And a lot of that happens unconsciously and automatically if you are not careful. And the result is someone like OP who is clearly lost in his delusions of being tier 2.

In the end, either the model is actually useful and brings us closer to the truth or not. Most people just speculate and guess within the confines of a model that is in itself build on a lot of speculation and assertions. 

And posts like OPs confirm the fact that this is actually potentially harmful for the pursuit of truth and excellence.

SD should just be put into a shelf alongside all the other thousands of psychological models. (I am not saying they are all equally useful or truthful). But SD should not be put on a pedestal. We need to apply a lot more scrutiny to it. Even SD itself teaches it. If you become construct aware at yellow, you need to downgrade this model in your mind. Now you are no longer the hero ascending the stages but you have become aware that you are playing a game of illusory and relative stages. Paradoxically if you want to ascend into the tier 2 stages of SD you have to drop the importance of this model alongside it. You outgrow the model as you grow within the frameworks layed out by it. Juicy paradox.

[something_else]

8 minutes ago, Phil777 said:

Spiral dynamic on the other hand, if looked at through this playful perspective, is just a nice little ego enhancing circle jerk. Why speculate about the nature of reality like that? What's the point? Beware, because when you are trying to frame actual reality like that, this can have pretty clear consequences. It's not all fun and games because as soon as you do that you are creating filters of reality that limit the depth and breadth of your understanding. And a lot of that happens unconsciously and automatically if you are not careful. And the result is someone like OP who is clearly lost in his delusions of being tier 2.

It's a model that's really meant for classifying entire cultures or groups rather than individuals. But people often treat it like a personality test. I'm pretty sure Leo in one of his SD videos warned about the dangers of treating SD like a personality test or metric.

Edited November 14, 2022 by something_else

[ThePoint]

1 hour ago, StarStruck said:

Is it possible to bounce up from all the way to yellow down to beige? I think once you reach a baseline of certain values you stay there but I'm not sure.

@StarStruck

I don’t think your question makes sense. Bounce up from all the way to yellow down to beige? 

But I’ll interpret it by what I think you meant. 

See, Spiral Dynamics was a model formed by studies done on people. It’s recognising patterns. 

Most people are relatively healthy. So by that very nature, for Spiral Dynamics to be effective on you, you would also need to be relatively healthy, as the studies were done on relatively healthy people, not on people with illnesses. 

So I don’t know if it’s completely accurate for me to say I regressed to Beige, because Spiral Dynamics as a whole can’t currently be applied to me that well because it’s a model based on values, and I don’t care about the values I used to have because of apathy + anhedonia. Perhaps I could say a lot of my focus is in Beige currently as I’m trying to survive and solve health problems, but it’s a bit tricky to use Spiral Dynamics here. 

I think if I get my self / personality back, then I will start caring about my values again, from where I can start using Spiral Dynamics again. 

[ThePoint]

13 hours ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

Tier2 as well as many coaches/life coaches/software engineers work at Teal.

@ValiantSalvatore Why did you give those three examples in particular?

Is it more common for software engineers and life coaches to be at a higher stage of development? 

[something_else]

13 hours ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

as many coaches/life coaches/software engineers work at Teal

Are you a software engineer by any chance? 

[ValiantSalvatore]

6 hours ago, ThePoint said:

Why did you give those three examples in particular?

Is it more common for software engineers and life coaches to be at a higher stage of development? 

As they are interested in cross-paradigmatic understanding and holism mostly. That is what I would say . 

[ValiantSalvatore]

6 hours ago, something_else said:

Are you a software engineer by any chance? 

Maybe maybe not . At least not yet. Doing a masters in applied computer science...hope it will go well!

Edited November 14, 2022 by ValiantSalvatore

[ValiantSalvatore]

9 hours ago, Ulax said:

I think a key thing that causes confusion is that I understand spiral dynamics to be a tracker of cognitive development.

I think someone can have a high level of cognitive development but have low emotional development. I think I remember Leo saying the same in one of his videos too.

Spiral dynamics is simply the value line of development. That is the most simple way to explain it. Spiral dynamics is not cognitive development... unfortunately it would partially be IQ as well as the abillity to take perspective, in terms of depth and span... if that makes sense and my memory is correct. Can recommend Kosmic Consciouness audiobook from Ken Wilber he explains 99.9% of the stuff there. I loved this audiobook to death pretty much on every journey I undertook...

Quote

Spiral Dynamics describes how value systems and worldviews emerge from the interaction of "life conditions" and the mind's capacities

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_Dynamics

Edited November 14, 2022 by ValiantSalvatore

[PepperBlossoms]

jumping from paradigm to paradigm quite frequently and having that change your preferences, context

battle with hypocritical thinking and actions

unsure of what to think or do or prioritize about anything

focus on love more than anything else and how to be more loving

how to listen to intuition and inner voice or is it even trustworthy

how to make sense of reality, who to trust, can i even trust myself, what the heck is even going on

Edited November 14, 2022 by PepperBlossoms

[Jacob Morres]

On 11/9/2022 at 9:58 AM, StarStruck said:

Do any of you guys who are also tier 2 face any hurdles

Same problems as everyone else, but with a different set of values 

Spiral dynamics doesn't measure happiness, fulfillment, effectiveness etc. Way better models for that stuff 

In some sense dare I say spiral dynamics is low key pointless. There's some decent (perhaps key) insights there you can apply but outside of a basic understanding tbh it feels more of a philosophical pursuit than a practical one

Don't waste your time with SD too much outside of the basic understanding. there are probably way more higher leverage pursuits for the avg person 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Jacob Morres

[Byun Sean]

6 hours ago, Jacob Morres said:

Same problems as everyone else, but with a different set of values 

Spiral dynamics doesn't measure happiness, fulfillment, effectiveness etc. Way better models for that stuff 

In some sense dare I say spiral dynamics is low key pointless. There's some decent (perhaps key) insights there you can apply but outside of a basic understanding tbh it feels more of a philosophical pursuit than a practical one

Don't waste your time with SD too much outside of the basic understanding. there are probably way more higher leverage pursuits for the avg person 

 

SD is very useful. You can see where you and various people in your community are at and see where you are going.

 

This is extremely powerful in terms of personal development growth potential. It gives you an idea of what activities/ practices you should experiment with to hit the next level of fulfillment in your life/ consciousness.

[StarStruck]

SD is about values. Your RAS, which is your focus, has a focus on your highest values. This in turn creates the paradigm you live in. You create your own paradigm by your own focus. The higher your paradigm the higher your perspective. Tier one people fly on the altitude of doves while tier 2 people fly on the altitude of a hawk. You really can’t know how it is to fly on such a high altitude until you have the wings to do so. 

[Michael569]

thinking one is higher than one really is and then ignoring all the essential steps that need to be incorporated to actually get there such as personal development, finances, career, health etc - seems fairly common on the forum but in many similar communities. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Michael569

[asifarahim]

Before stage yellow chop wood carry water, after stage yellow chop wood carry water.

I think i reached stage yellow in 2019

I now am working like a horse,running around like a madman to actualize my life's task

I can get a job i want ,but i have an end goal of what i want to be when i am in age 85,when i am  in my deathbed.i have a vision of what i want to be when i am at age 85.i am working for building my life around that vision.and i struggle really hard.i  am working hard like a mad man.i am unemployed and working long hours to actualize my vision

I think u all should take your eyes off of SD.u will reach stage yellow naturally if u work a lot for   your lifes  tasks and passions .i came to know about SD after i reached yellow.i do not know what system thinking was. when i reached yellow i started system thinking naturally.it was natural to me.i never heard of the term "system thinking". After 6 months or some time  of  doing system thinking i wonder why not research it ,and i started typing system thinking and i found leos video on system thinking and that got me to SD and that is how i got to knew about SD. and i became  stage yellow while living in India. I had decent living conditions but not the best.and i reached stage yellow while living in India.why??.because i worked a lot on self improvement and passions.i put huge amount of work on self improvement and my passions.that is how i got into Stage yellow.and u all should take your eyes off of SD and work on yourself  and on your lifes task and on your passions and intrest.

 

Figure what u want to be when u r in your deathbed in the age 85 and work daily  on achieving it

Edited November 15, 2022 by asifarahim