Regular Old Enlightened Folk Vs Mysterious Edgy Mystics.

[Prabhaker]

5 minutes ago, Deep said:

It's like Alan Watts says, "Brahman reveals itself to certain people at times and they know who they are." 

6 minutes ago, Deep said:

Even Osho and Sadhguru might not be fully enlightened. 

Even Alan Watts might not be fully enlightened. 

In October 1973, Watts returned from a European lecture tour to his cabin in Druid Heights. Friends of Watts had been concerned about him for some time over what they considered his excessive drinking of alcohol. On 16 November 1973, he died in his sleep.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Watts#Death

[Deep]

43 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

Even Alan Watts might not be fully enlightened. 

He said he was an entertainer. He only talked about Eastern philosophies for fun. 

[Key Elements]

12 hours ago, Prabhaker said:

It is not power itself that corrupts, because the divine also is power; rather, it is the seeking, longing ego that corrupts. If we are corrupt, then when power comes our corruption will be exposed. 

I understand this part. Something else came to my mind:

"With great powers come great responsibilities." -Spiderman's uncle

In other words, there is karma. Life throws things in our court. Maybe a big responsibility is coming our way if we have such thing as powers. The universe could work this way. There are reasons why things are the way they are - to give us lessons so we could learn and move on. Just like a rabbit has speed so that it could outrun the fox.

[Prabhaker]

2 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

Maybe a big responsibility is coming our way if we have such thing as powers.

You don´t understand even the meaning of the word responsibility. The society has been so cunning. It has destroyed our most beautiful words, given them distorted meanings. Ordinarily in your dictionaries "responsibility" means duty, doing things the way you are expected to do them by your parents, by your teachers, by your priests, by your politicians, by somebody else.

Your responsibility is to fulfill the demands made upon you by your elders and your society. If you act accordingly, you are a responsible person; if you act on your own ― individually ― then you are an irresponsible person. And your fear is: in acting spontaneously, here and now, there is a danger ― you may start acting individually. What will happen to your responsibility?

The fact is that "responsibility", the very word, has to be broken into two words. It means "response ability". And response is possible only if you are spontaneous, here and now. Response means that your attention, your awareness, your consciousness, is totally here and now, in the present. So whatever happens, you respond with your whole being. It is not a question of being in tune with somebody else, some holy scripture, or some holy idiot. It simply means to be in tune with the present moment.

You want to do great things but your only  responsibility is living in present moment. Don't think about changing the world, change yourself.

[Key Elements]

49 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

Don't think about changing the world, change yourself.

I'm not saying to go around changing others or the world. You can only set an example for them if they notice you. I'm only saying that things happen for a reason - like a rabbit is born with speed for a reason - to outrun a fox in case danger comes along.

[Leo Gura]

Careful what ya'll assume.

Some of the most enlightened people are the most humble, least flashy, and most unassuming.

Like Yoda living in a swamp. He's not walking around with a slick sales pitch, throngs of devotees, and fancy neon signs saying: ENLIGHTENED MASTER! You'd never know he was there at all unless you were really serious about seeking out Truth.

Yoda doesn't run around showing off his force lighting powers in the middle of a crowded intersection. He's not stupid. You probably couldn't understand 1% of what he has to teach you. So he is silent.

The more one has transcended ego, the less you will know one has.

Someone like Osho is a showoff. And the reason he's popular is precisely because stupid people like flashy things.

[Guest username]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Careful what ya'll assume.

Some of the most enlightened people are the most humble, least flashy, and most unassuming.

Like Yoda living in a swamp. He's not walking around with a slick sales pitch, throngs of devotees, and fancy neon signs saying: ENLIGHTENED MASTER! You'd never we know he's there unless you were really serious about seeking out Truth.

Yoda doesn't run around showing off his force lighting powers in the middle of a crowded intersection. He's not stupid. You probably couldn't understand 1% of what he has to teach you. So he is silent.

The more one has transcended ego, the less you will know one has.

Someone like Osho is a showoff. And the reason he's popular is precisely because stupid people like flashy things.

What's your opinion on Osho?

[Prabhaker]

2 hours ago, Key Elements said:

 I'm only saying that things happen for a reason - like a rabbit is born with speed for a reason - to outrun a fox in case danger comes along.

Rabbit is born with speed is need for survival of species. Psychic powers are not a need for survival of human species. Even if you use them to set an example for others, how it is going to help you and humanity, you will only waste your energy instead of using it for your spiritual growth.

Do not do this because it is useless to dominate anyone or become popular. The only useful thing is to dominate yourself. It is useless, a wastage of your energy. Nothing is achieved through it - just an egoistic feeling that you can dominate. So this is evil, a black art. That is the difference between black magic and white magic. Black magic means using your energy, wasting it, in dominating others. White magic means using the same methods, but using your energy in dominating your own life, becoming a master of yourself.

Tibetans came to know and experience many powers of the dormant mind, but as far as spiritual discipline is concerned, Tibet could not become a great country. It is surprising that although Tibet did a great deal, it could not give birth to a buddha. It developed many powers, it came to know
many unique things, but it used them for trivial matters.

[Loreena]

I don't know why people consider Osho and Sadhguru as "Enlightened". That's like putting them on a pedestal, at least in my opinion. They are like teachers and gurus who say wise things, but that's it.

I agree with what @jse says here. It's all about mojo. They got that x factor. You must have observed how they make people laugh by telling jokes. They never appear serious. They maintain a calm countenance and talk very slowly and pause a lot between words. They never show expressions of tension or fear. If a person asks them a tough question, they usually take it and turn it into something that everybody can laugh about.

Osho was very flashy. He said a lot of wise things but at the same time he was very controversial with his cult like following. Some people resented that. Certain tantric things he taught on his ranch were heavily criticized by visitors and the media. Also people would carry weapons on his ranch, Goes to show, even enlightened people are not free from human failings,

These people have a special skill to captivate people that others like Peter Russell do not possess. Perhaps they don't like to project themselves that way. You must have heard of Jon Kabat Zinn. People like him are simple, they don't claim to be great or experts on every area of life. They are like your college professors, just regular folks who do more research, gather information and just give it to the masses. They don't need to wear special costumes or act in certain ways. Probably that is the reason why they don't attract a lot of attention.

Also the people you mentioned as mystics come from eastern traditions which a lot of people take as something exotic and ethereal. If the same thing was said by a western person, there would be nothing exotic about it,

And I guess the last factor is - they don't blink their eyes very often !!!   kinda makes someone look hypnotic and special.

 

On Thursday, February 23, 2017 at 3:58 AM, jse said:

The difference?  Mojo.

[Key Elements]

27 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

Do not do this because it is useless to dominate anyone or become popular.

I'm not saying to dominate others or to become popular. Let's say a person has the power to light wood and make fire without any tools. If he's stuck in the middle of the forest in snow for some reason, maybe his car broke down, then he could make fire until help arrives. I'm saying along those lines.

[Prabhaker]

2 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

Let's say a person has the power to light wood and make fire without any tools. If he's stuck in the middle of the forest in snow for some reason, maybe his car broke down, then he could make fire until help arrives. I'm saying along those lines.

Jesus has said, what use is it if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul? If you save your soul, even if you lose the whole world you have everything. 

So, don't waste an inch of your being, even if in exchange you will get the whole universe as your kingdom. Spiritual energy is very precious. 

[Key Elements]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Like Yoda

Interesting example. I used to like this character a lot as a child - used to get those Pez candies with a green Yoda head.

Yoda reminds me of this Zen story:

 

The Moon Cannot Be Stolen

Ryokan, a Zen master, lived the simplest kind of life in a little hut at the foot of a mountain. One evening a thief visited the hut only to discover there was nothing in it to steal.

Ryokan returned and caught him. “You may have come a long way to visit me,” he told the prowler, “and you shoud not return emptyhanded. Please take my clothes as a gift.”

The thief was bewildered. He took the clothes and slunk away.

Ryokan sat naked, watching the moon. “Poor fellow,” he mused, “I wish I could give him this beautiful moon.”

 

There's nothing wrong with living a simple lifestyle. Just exercise and eat healthy. Live where there are lots of trees. Stay strong. However, inspite of all this, some ppl still suffer. They don't just die in their sleep in their old age. Looks like we still need good health care.  We're still not at the stage where everyone is getting equal and outstanding health care as a society.

[Key Elements]

@Prabhaker Hmm..how is the example I have just given wasting spiritual energy? You'll lose your soul just for doing that?

[Prabhaker]

Just now, Key Elements said:

You'll lose your soul just for doing that?

You'll. Spiritual energy is wasted when you use it for psychic powers. 

[Prabhaker]

1 hour ago, John Flores said:

but I too am bothered  by his showiness

When Osho was asked " People are very much interested in your Rolls Royces. What do You want to prove with this, so many cars and so much luxury around You?"

@Loreena He replied.

Why are people concerned? Then certainly they need it; then more Rolls Royces will be here. Until they stop asking me, more and more Rolls Royces are going to be here. Now it has to be seen that it is a challenge: the day nobody asks me about Rolls Royces, they will not be coming.
People's interest in Rolls Royces shows their mind. They are not interested what is happening here. They don't ask about meditation, they don't ask about sannyas, they don't ask about people's life, love, the laughter that happens in this desert. They only ask about Rolls Royces. That means I have touched some painful nerve. And I will go on pressing it till they stop asking.

I am not a worshipper of poverty. That's what those Rolls Royces prove. I respect wealth. Nobody before me had the guts to say it. The pope cannot say that he respects wealth, although he is the wealthiest man on the earth.

I am not a hypocrite. I am the poorest man on the earth. I don't have a single cent with me. But I want to show these people what attracts their mind. If there were no Rolls Royces here, perhaps there would be nothing for the whole world ask about me, about you, about meditation, about initiation into sannyas, about love, about anything. It is for those idiots that I am keeping all those Rolls Royces, because they cannot move their eyes away from those Rolls Royces. And meanwhile I will go on pouring other things in their minds. Without those Rolls Royces they would not have asked a single question.

Those Rolls Royces are doing their work. Every idiot around the world is interested in them. And I want them to be somehow interested—in anything in Rajneeshpuram. Then we will manage about other things.
So tell those people—when anybody asks, tell them that "These Rolls Royces are for you idiots. Otherwise you are not interested in anything." Once they stop asking about Rolls Royces, then I will have to think of something else, whether to have rockets which are going to the moon…. I will have to think of something else.

I received a letter from a bishop of Wasco County, who had been for almost five years condemning my Rolls Royces. In every Sunday sermon he was not preaching Jesus Christ, he was preaching me and my Rolls Royces. The day I was leaving he wrote a letter to me, "Now you are leaving, it will be great kindness on your part if you can donate one Rolls Royce to this church." Now, this shows the man….
I informed him, "Would you like all ninety-three, or only one?"
And a letter came, "If you can give all ninety-three, that is just the right thing. You are really great. I'm very sorry that I condemned you for five years. You are a man to be worshiped."
It is a very strange world if you understand people: whatever they are saying shows more about them than it shows about the person they are talking about.

[Haloman]

Like Leo said in his “The trap of projection” video – don’t evaluate only  from your tiny perspective. If we don’t evaluate Osho for information what is available about his personal life, then his teachings are gold. It’s hard for me to find any author or teacher whose view and understanding of spirituality, society and relationships would be so tuned with that what i have experienced and understand this far in my life.

Look what user – @Prabhaker is doing. He can respond to (perhaps) every problem or question through Osho’s wisdom. And in 99% events it is “hit the nail on the head”.

[Loreena]

5 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

When Osho was asked " People are very much interested in your Rolls Royces. What do You want to prove with this, so many cars and so much luxury around You?"

@Loreena He replied.

Why are people concerned? Then certainly they need it; then more Rolls Royces will be here. Until they stop asking me, more and more Rolls Royces are going to be here. Now it has to be seen that it is a challenge: the day nobody asks me about Rolls Royces, they will not be coming.
People's interest in Rolls Royces shows their mind. They are not interested what is happening here. They don't ask about meditation, they don't ask about sannyas, they don't ask about people's life, love, the laughter that happens in this desert. They only ask about Rolls Royces. That means I have touched some painful nerve. And I will go on pressing it till they stop asking.

I am not a worshipper of poverty. That's what those Rolls Royces prove. I respect wealth. Nobody before me had the guts to say it. The pope cannot say that he respects wealth, although he is the wealthiest man on the earth.

I am not a hypocrite. I am the poorest man on the earth. I don't have a single cent with me. But I want to show these people what attracts their mind. If there were no Rolls Royces here, perhaps there would be nothing for the whole world ask about me, about you, about meditation, about initiation into sannyas, about love, about anything. It is for those idiots that I am keeping all those Rolls Royces, because they cannot move their eyes away from those Rolls Royces. And meanwhile I will go on pouring other things in their minds. Without those Rolls Royces they would not have asked a single question.

Those Rolls Royces are doing their work. Every idiot around the world is interested in them. And I want them to be somehow interested—in anything in Rajneeshpuram. Then we will manage about other things.
So tell those people—when anybody asks, tell them that "These Rolls Royces are for you idiots. Otherwise you are not interested in anything." Once they stop asking about Rolls Royces, then I will have to think of something else, whether to have rockets which are going to the moon…. I will have to think of something else.

I received a letter from a bishop of Wasco County, who had been for almost five years condemning my Rolls Royces. In every Sunday sermon he was not preaching Jesus Christ, he was preaching me and my Rolls Royces. The day I was leaving he wrote a letter to me, "Now you are leaving, it will be great kindness on your part if you can donate one Rolls Royce to this church." Now, this shows the man….
I informed him, "Would you like all ninety-three, or only one?"
And a letter came, "If you can give all ninety-three, that is just the right thing. You are really great. I'm very sorry that I condemned you for five years. You are a man to be worshiped."
It is a very strange world if you understand people: whatever they are saying shows more about them than it shows about the person they are talking about.

Well the great Osho could have very well given the same reply when asked about touching young naive women's breasts....to feel their Chakras!! yoooohoooo 

[Prabhaker]

1 minute ago, Loreena said:

Well the great Osho could have very well given the same reply when asked about touching young naive women's breasts....to feel their Chakras!! yoooohoooo

Millions of women were his disciples, ready to sacrifice anything for him. Do you think still he was hungry for touching women's breasts ? 

People criticized the relationship between Jesus and a prostitute Mary Magdalene. It tells about people's mind, not about Jesus.

[Key Elements]

42 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

You'll. Spiritual energy is wasted when you use it for psychic powers. 

Interesting...could you pls explain or give a few examples? I'm still not clear on this. I thought everything happens for a reason. Try your best in this life. Learn your lessons. Life is a school. Become a "teacher." Set a good example in your own ways, and move onto something better.

[Loreena]

4 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

Millions of women were his disciples, ready to sacrifice anything for him. Do you think still he was hungry for touching women's breasts ? 

People criticized the relationship between Jesus and a prostitute Mary Magdalene. It tells about people's mind, not about Jesus.

Why even drag Jesus Christ into this. How a person can compare Jesus to someone like Osho is beyond me. Jesus never touched Mary Magdalene. He made a saint out of a prostitute showing to people that even a prostitute is a human and capable of receiving grace and mercy just like others. He did not want prostitutes to be demonized by the public. The example is misplaced and completely out of context.