Let’s Make Spiral Dynamics Bigger

[CultivateLove]

10 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

You can do that.

Yeah you're right.

[Julian gabriel]

10 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Which animals do you want to observe? Birds? Monkeys? Tardigrades?

@Carl-Richard I would start with monkeys since they have already been studied a lot and are most similar to humans. Then I’d work my way down from there until I got to bacteria. 

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Julian gabriel said:

@Carl-Richard I would start with monkeys since they have already been studied a lot and are most similar to humans. Then I’d work my way down from there until I got to bacteria. 

Who is more evolved: a creature with wings or a creature with fingers?

[martins name]

SD modeling human values, not values as a whole. You gotta realize what SD is and isn't. It answers the specific question of how human values develop and that question shouldn't be expanded. If you want to model larger moral values development among different species, then you should create a new model. Also, human values develop linearly on one scale, It shouldn't be assumed that other animals can be put on that same scale.

Edited November 7, 2022 by martins name

[Leo Gura]

Best not to taint a scientific model with idle speculation, otherwise people will reject it.

[SonataAllegro]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Best not to taint a scientific model with idle speculation, otherwise people will reject it.

@Leo Gura If you had to make a model to fit your awakenings with SDi, especially the latest ones, what would it look like? Do you think there's any merit to conceptualizing of stages past turquoise even if we don't have much evidence for them?

After all, I've found merit in conceptualizing of stage yellow/turquoise even though I'm not centered in them. Doing so gets me to see through my own bullshit when I'm acting from orange/green.

[Carl-Richard]

7 minutes ago, SonataAllegro said:

@Leo Gura If you had to make a model to fit your awakenings with SDi, especially the latest ones, what would it look like? Do you think there's any merit to conceptualizing of stages past turquoise even if we don't have much evidence for them?

After all, I've found merit in conceptualizing of stage yellow/turquoise even though I'm not centered in them. Doing so gets me to see through my own bullshit when I'm acting from orange/green.

You can make your own model which is inspired by SD without any of the empirical research or theoretical grounding, but then it's no longer SD.

[SonataAllegro]

29 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You can make your own model which is inspired by SD without any of the empirical research or theoretical grounding, but then it's no longer SD.

It would be based on the empirical research of your own direct insights. So long as you own the fact that it's biased and personal it's still a legitimate tool. After all, everyone has their own personal and unique understanding of SD which is skewed by their own experience, biases and interpretations -- there's no actual "empirical" model out there to cite when doing this research, it exists only in the minds of humans.

For example, if I've discovered that I am God and that I've imagined the entire social world that SD is describing, I could say that that's a stage of development and consciousness somewhere on the model based on empirical, albeit solely personal, insight, right? Even though that state of consciousness is beyond all modeling and conceptualization, someone might find it useful for understanding what's being pointed to.

I say this especially because I'm trying to understand if these models are at all useful for this new Alien stuff, seeing as SD was one of the ways that I opened my mind to mysticism in the first place.

@Leo Gura i'd appreciate your thoughts on this.

[Julian gabriel]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Best not to taint a scientific model with idle speculation, otherwise people will reject it.

@Leo Gura How are these specific speculations of mine “tainting” spiral dynamics?

Also I don’t care if people reject it as long as it’s true.

[Julian gabriel]

17 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Who is more evolved: a creature with wings or a creature with fingers?

@Carl-Richard I don’t know because there are a lot of different types of fingers out there.

But the animals with thumbs often seem to use more complex tools so I guess that’s significant in terms of problem solving.  Like a monkey using a rock to open a coconut for example.

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, SonataAllegro said:

@Leo Gura If you had to make a model to fit your awakenings with SDi, especially the latest ones, what would it look like?

There is absolutely no way to map my latest awakenings and levels of consciousness.

1 hour ago, Julian gabriel said:

@Leo Gura How are these specific speculations of mine “tainting” spiral dynamics?

Also I don’t care if people reject it as long as it’s true.

How do you know it's true if you haven't done serious research into it?

Edited November 8, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Carl-Richard]

5 hours ago, Julian gabriel said:

@Carl-Richard I don’t know because there are a lot of different types of fingers out there.

But the animals with thumbs often seem to use more complex tools so I guess that’s significant in terms of problem solving.  Like a monkey using a rock to open a coconut for example.

My point is that an evolutionary stage theory doesn't make sense. It's way too complex. Phylogenetic theories and ontogenetic theories make sense.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[Julian gabriel]

23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

How do you know it's true if you haven't done serious research into it?

@Leo Gura I am not proposing that I know my speculations to be true. My speculations are not the model itself. 

I am exploring and expanding the barriers of the model, maybe my speculations are stupid. 

[Chakra Lion]

I made myself a little chart for self reflection using both SD and the 7 Charkas. SD reflecting the external collective and Charkas the Internal Individual.

Lmk what you think.

 

[eos_nyxia]

Hierarchization of this nature is not the way of the future IMO, especially with how I tend to see it used. It is being used to divide and undermine, rather than to bring us together, to develop common understanding and perspective, for collective growth (which is not based on hierarchy/ conceptualization of this nature first).

For this reason, because it is being used complicity as if to develop some sort of social pecking order while developing people's individual processes of understanding (aka. "), I can't say that I think it is used in good spirit.

Aka. is it bound to be used as a tool to emotionally undermine first, and everything else comes second. That it might not be actively intended for such doesn't matter. What matters is the effect it has on people.

Like... it brings people together in this space, with a bias toward a specific type of approach to conceptualization (at best). Outside of this space though? ...no, I don't think it's going to work out well.

The best that can be done with it is probably to take any helpful concepts that would help you serve certain groups and individuals directly better (assuming, hopefully, that is does work), and repackage it appropriately.

 

Do not turn it into yet another religion. If there is any viable use it in all for social development, it will likely sort itself out.

Edited November 17, 2022 by eos_nyxia

[Carl-Richard]

On 8.11.2022 at 0:22 AM, SonataAllegro said:

It would be based on the empirical research of your own direct insights. So long as you own the fact that it's biased and personal it's still a legitimate tool. After all, everyone has their own personal and unique understanding of SD which is skewed by their own experience, biases and interpretations -- there's no actual "empirical" model out there to cite when doing this research, it exists only in the minds of humans.

Empirical research as in doing science using a structured methodology and a sample from a population. With some effort, you can learn what the creators of the model were trying to communicate.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[Artsu]

I've already mapped out the higher levels corresponding to SD.

I've named it "The Thematic Hierarchy".

There are 8+1 levels for the usual colours, and 8 for Post-integral.

 

I arrived at the model empirically, through honest self-reflection, and rationally, through inference and understanding of typology.

 

It's not possible/easy to study the Post-integral levels in the population due to how few people reach these levels.

 

My findings are sound.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by Artsu