Why would you not live like a buddhist monk?

[Someone here]

I do not mean believing in the religious aspects of Buddhism like rebirth etc. . Rather, i am referring to just their lifestyle of long periods of meditation, helping others, learning and doing meaningful work. If there is a chance to be relatively happy and cause minimal suffering in the world through living like a buddhist monk why would we not do it? Is it because temporary/materialistic pleasures (new cars, fancy computers, good food, sex) ARE NEEDED for some people's happiness? Are things like music and movies/stories/art needed for your happiness? If these things were not available in the world and everyone just meditated, socialised, volunteered and lived simply all day, there would be MUCH less non-human and potentially human suffering AND we could still possibly attain happiness? 
I guess in a broader sense I am after opinions or research on what is needed for a human to be happy. Obviously there will be variation in what is needed between people but there must be some general requirements shared by all. With this information, we would then be able to figure out how to live happily whilst minimising suffering of other sentient beings. Thanks in advance for your thoughts

[Realms of Wonder]

What do you think?

 

What have you experienced in relation to this query? 
 

What has your research come up with? 

[Someone here]

7 minutes ago, Realms of Wonder said:

What do you think?

 

What have you experienced in relation to this query? 
 

What has your research come up with? 

Meditation is something which I do wish for but I would not wish to renounce all pleasures and live as a monk. The reason why I don't think that I could live as an ascetic is that there is so much pain and suffering in life and it needs some pleasure to balance it out. Even in the monastic life in Christianity the monks and nuns are provided for and don't have to worry about supporting themselves. Strangely, not many people in Western life are drawn to the monastic life. In the past, many people were drawn towards it because they struggled with being gay. I have come across people who joined a monastery for that reason and left eventually.

[Yarco]

I guess technically a non-monk could wake up 3 hours early every day to meditate before work. Then go work a normal day. Come home and spend your entire evening meditating for another 3 hours and then go to bed. Most people want more in their life than that though, it'd be a very robotic and boring way to live.

I think the best way to do it would be to live a much simpler kind of life. You could combine something like the monk lifestyle with the Amish lifestyle.

Hours a day of prayer or meditation, combined with hours a day of meaningful hard work that tires you out. You can see the immediate result of your work, whether that's farming food, building horse carriages, or whatever. Very strong sense of community, combined with strict community-enforced rules for how to live your life.

That would at least cut out all the modern conveniences.

Problem is that if everyone lived that way, it would be hard to organize more complex parts of modern society, like hospitals and good medical care. Probably universities wouldn't exist any more, skills would just be passed down within the community. So a lot of specialized knowledge would be lost in a few generations. 

Basically would be like setting civilization back 300+ years.

If you got your entire country to see the wisdom of living this way and everyone agreed to shift the whole society in this direction... You'd immediately be taken over by another country that stayed modernized and industrial.

If you want to be a monk, it's better to do it on an individual basis. You don't need to go to a monastery, but you probably need to live an ascetic lifestyle away from modern society. If you aren't joining an existing organization, you're probably either going to go live in the wilderness as a hermit, or form your own little cult.

[Someone here]

20 minutes ago, Yarco said:

I guess technically a non-monk could wake up 3 hours early every day to meditate before work. Then go work a normal day. Come home and spend your entire evening meditating for another 3 hours and then go to bed. Most people want more in their life than that though, it'd be a very robotic and boring way to live.

I think the best way to do it would be to live a much simpler kind of life. You could combine something like the monk lifestyle with the Amish lifestyle.

Hours a day of prayer or meditation, combined with hours a day of meaningful hard work that tires you out. You can see the immediate result of your work, whether that's farming food, building horse carriages, or whatever. Very strong sense of community, combined with strict community-enforced rules for how to live your life.

That would at least cut out all the modern conveniences.

Problem is that if everyone lived that way, it would be hard to organize more complex parts of modern society, like hospitals and good medical care. Probably universities wouldn't exist any more, skills would just be passed down within the community. So a lot of specialized knowledge would be lost in a few generations. 

Basically would be like setting civilization back 300+ years.

If you got your entire country to see the wisdom of living this way and everyone agreed to shift the whole society in this direction... You'd immediately be taken over by another country that stayed modernized and industrial.

If you want to be a monk, it's better to do it on an individual basis. You don't need to go to a monastery, but you probably need to live an ascetic lifestyle away from modern society. If you aren't joining an existing organization, you're probably either going to go live in the wilderness as a hermit, or form your own little cult.

Good points .

I have  also a question of how much it is beneficial to live the ascetic life and overcome attachments. With material possessions it can be a case of not having many but being extremely attached to a few. Detachment in relationships is difficult as well, and this is emotional as well as sexual. Also, sexuality may be a natural part of life and it is questionable to what extent a person should try to overcome this aspect of life entirely. In some ways

Western culture overemphasises the importance of sex but for many people finding the right person is hard enough, but not having any sexual relationships is something that many would not choose intentionally.
I think this is at the heart of finding happiness and joy. The Dali Lama called it a selfish compassion, the more you help others the more you seem to help yourself. You give joy and happiness away, and it comes back to you.

[hyruga]

Because being a monk is boring. Why not sing a song and spread joy?

Why meditate so much when you can talk and actually actively help more people?

 

[gettoefl]

19 minutes ago, Yarco said:

I guess technically a non-monk could wake up 3 hours early every day to meditate before work. Then go work a normal day. Come home and spend your entire evening meditating for another 3 hours and then go to bed. Most people want more in their life than that though, it'd be a very robotic and boring way to live.

I think the best way to do it would be to live a much simpler kind of life. You could combine something like the monk lifestyle with the Amish lifestyle.

Hours a day of prayer or meditation, combined with hours a day of meaningful hard work that tires you out. You can see the immediate result of your work, whether that's farming food, building horse carriages, or whatever. Very strong sense of community, combined with strict community-enforced rules for how to live your life.

That would at least cut out all the modern conveniences.

Problem is that if everyone lived that way, it would be hard to organize more complex parts of modern society, like hospitals and good medical care. Probably universities wouldn't exist any more, skills would just be passed down within the community. So a lot of specialized knowledge would be lost in a few generations. 

Basically would be like setting civilization back 300+ years.

If you got your entire country to see the wisdom of living this way and everyone agreed to shift the whole society in this direction... You'd immediately be taken over by another country that stayed modernized and industrial.

If you want to be a monk, it's better to do it on an individual basis. You don't need to go to a monastery, but you probably need to live an ascetic lifestyle away from modern society. If you aren't joining an existing organization, you're probably either going to go live in the wilderness as a hermit, or form your own little cult.

been doing the hermit thing for some time, my schedule is bed at 7 up at 3 meditate til 7 work til 11 study til 3 play til 7 ... can attest it works well and i won't change any time soon

[gettoefl]

4 minutes ago, hyruga said:

Because being a monk is boring. Why not sing a song and spread joy?

Why meditate so much when you can talk and actually actively help more people?

 

i can't help anyone because i don't know anything ... i can however help myself though i wouldn't try nor couldn't try to prove that to anyone

[Someone here]

2 minutes ago, hyruga said:

Because being a monk is boring. Why not sing a song and spread joy?

Why meditate so much when you can talk and actually actively help more people?

 

Well, for starters, how do you know it's boring? Have you ever lived a Buddhist monk's life? To you, life in the external world may be exciting. To Buddhist monks, maybe the internal world is even more exciting than the external one.

For me, boredom is not something I experience just because I have nothing to do. I always have something to do. But sometimes, circumstances require us to be somewhere we’re not interested in being, engaging in mundane conversation that we don’t particularly care about and so on.

Boredom can become a habit, however. So, we must be on guard. We are currently living a life mostly experienced in samsara. Consequently, we must attend to the well-being of our body, intellectual mind and spiritual nature. So, unless we’re trapped by circumstances, there’s no reason to be bored.

There’s so much to learn, to do, to discover. How could we get bored?

[Realms of Wonder]

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

Meditation is something which I do wish for 

Do you meditate now?

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

Strangely, not many people in Western life are drawn to the monastic life. In the past, many people were drawn towards it because they struggled with being gay. I have come across people who joined a monastery for that reason and left eventually.

how do you know that many people do that?

 

[Yarco]

2 hours ago, gettoefl said:

been doing the hermit thing for some time, my schedule is bed at 7 up at 3 meditate til 7 work til 11 study til 3 play til 7 ... can attest it works well and i won't change any time soon

That's hardcore. Do you ever worry you'll regret it? It seems like a huge sacrifice, especially when it comes to dating and social life. Or you're just so detached that you're certain you'll never want those things later on?

[Jannes]

I think it has to with how our mind is wired. There are a lot of deep things that would make me happier then short term pleasure but my mind is addicted to that shit. 
And it’s just scary to renounce all earthy things. It’s like commiting suicide. 

[hyruga]

8 hours ago, Someone here said:

Well, for starters, how do you know it's boring? Have you ever lived a Buddhist monk's life? To you, life in the external world may be exciting. To Buddhist monks, maybe the internal world is even more exciting than the external one.

For me, boredom is not something I experience just because I have nothing to do. I always have something to do. But sometimes, circumstances require us to be somewhere we’re not interested in being, engaging in mundane conversation that we don’t particularly care about and so on.

Boredom can become a habit, however. So, we must be on guard. We are currently living a life mostly experienced in samsara. Consequently, we must attend to the well-being of our body, intellectual mind and spiritual nature. So, unless we’re trapped by circumstances, there’s no reason to be bored.

There’s so much to learn, to do, to discover. How could we get bored?

I was a Buddhist. But yes you are right. You can derive pleasure from whatever identity you choose to associate with.

[Roy]

9 hours ago, Yarco said:

3 hours early every day to meditate

That's such an insane waste of time to me. Just have higher quality meditation sessions for 10 minutes, 30 minutes etc.

Quality > quantity in almost all aspects of life. The juice has gotta be worth the squeeze.

[gettoefl]

12 hours ago, Yarco said:

That's hardcore. Do you ever worry you'll regret it? It seems like a huge sacrifice, especially when it comes to dating and social life. Or you're just so detached that you're certain you'll never want those things later on?

i have finished with the world, i lived it in absolute totality the first half of life and enjoyed every kiss and curve ... yes body mind still asks to get out there for more of the same but i have a better time savoring the spiritual rather than the sensual, and the rewards of this accumulate rather than crumble like sand ... don't have much attachment anymore even the cold has become my friend since it tells my body to kick into overdrive ... i had a good life in the world and now i am having a good life out of it ... i am 57 btw so i do say to you that it is good to exhaust all the world can offer before bothering with renouncing

[Heart of Space]

16 hours ago, Yarco said:

I guess technically a non-monk could wake up 3 hours early every day to meditate before work. Then go work a normal day. Come home and spend your entire evening meditating for another 3 hours and then go to bed. Most people want more in their life than that though, it'd be a very robotic and boring way to live.

I've actually done this.  I disagree that it's boring.  After a while each breath you take feels enriching.  Daily mundane work becomes effortless.  

Edited November 5, 2022 by Heart of Space

[SamC]

Who is this You, you're talking about?

[gettoefl]

2 hours ago, SamC said:

Who is this You, you're talking about?

depends who's asking ... that's the one that makes more sense to talk about on a forum ... talk about what you know without speculating about what you don't, that is what helps both yourself and the imagined others

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, gettoefl said:

i have finished with the world, i lived it in absolute totality the first half of life and enjoyed every kiss and curve ... yes body mind still asks to get out there for more of the same but i have a better time savoring the spiritual rather than the sensual, and the rewards of this accumulate rather than crumble like sand ... don't have much attachment anymore even the cold has become my friend since it tells my body to kick into overdrive ... i had a good life in the world and now i am having a good life out of it ... i am 57 btw so i do say to you that it is good to exhaust all the world can offer before bothering with renouncing

Sounds good. I think that to do that kind of life, it would be much more beautiful in the middle of nature, some isolated place, or maybe a sailboat in the Pacific. sunrise on some lonely atoll

[gettoefl]

53 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Sounds good. I think that to do that kind of life, it would be much more beautiful in the middle of nature, some isolated place, or maybe a sailboat in the Pacific. sunrise on some lonely atoll

could be/come attachment but then again i am lucky to have danced through all vistas of the globe and so place holds less sway; provided i have a few trees and green surroundings to wander in i am good ... wonder calls in the meretricious as much as the marvellous ... i rather see one thing a thousand times than a thousand things one time

Edited November 5, 2022 by gettoefl