No Nut November

[Osaid]

33 minutes ago, ThePoint said:

It’s making my quality of life worse every time I do it. 

How? 

 

[StarStruck]

@ThePoint you are making excuses. I’ve already told you what you need to do. I get that it is difficult. It is very hard to change. But it is not about how much you want to change but about how much sacrifices you want to make. At this moment you are not ready for the shift. Perhaps over couple of years if you have suffered enough you will be ready. Perhaps. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by StarStruck

[UnbornTao]

@ThePoint

Intending is actually doing it. Period. So go do it, or don't. Either way it's fine.

Establishing a negative relationship towards a natural impulse is not the wisest thing to do. You also seem to enjoy wallowing in your emotional struggle. It's OK, everyone does to some extent. Just remember to eventually move on to more empowering dispositions if you like.

In any case, you'll do what you want regardless of what others tell you. So enjoy it.

Several nofap enthusiasts are probably waiting for December 1st to arrive to congratulate themselves for a successful challenge.

Edited December 2, 2022 by UnbornTao

[ThePoint]

On 30/11/2022 at 1:40 PM, thisintegrated said:

Do you happen to, coincidentally, also hold negative beliefs about masturbation?

@thisintegrated Yes, because it makes my life worse.

Do you hold negative beliefs about stepping on lava with your bare feet?

On 30/11/2022 at 1:40 PM, thisintegrated said:

Would your views on masturbation be the same if you were a girl?  Would rubbing yourself ruin your life?

I can’t answer that because I don’t know what it’s like to be a girl. I only have an idea.

[ThePoint]

On 30/11/2022 at 1:55 PM, Osaid said:

How? 

• Less energy
• Less motivation 
• Less drive

On 30/11/2022 at 7:48 PM, StarStruck said:

@ThePoint you are making excuses. I’ve already told you what you need to do. I get that it is difficult. It is very hard to change. But it is not about how much you want to change but about how much sacrifices you want to make. At this moment you are not ready for the shift. Perhaps over couple of years if you have suffered enough you will be ready. Perhaps. 

@StarStruck What sacrifices can I make? I don’t know what sacrifices there are to make. 

Isn’t thinking that not masturbating is a ‘sacrifice’ a bad thing? Because then you think you’re missing out?

Man I wish I could just care more about quitting this shit. It’s like I’ve become a numbed creature.

On 01/12/2022 at 8:01 AM, UnbornTao said:

Establishing a negative relationship towards a natural impulse is not the wisest thing to do.

@UnbornTao

Why do you think this is a natural impulse?

I never had an ‘impulse’ to masturbate before my first time ever masturbating.

On 01/12/2022 at 8:01 AM, UnbornTao said:

You also seem to enjoy wallowing in your emotional struggle.

I should look out for this trap. How can I know if I am doing this?

I’ve been having a lot of self-defeating thoughts lately like

“You’re so dumb”

“You’re pathetic”

“How are you still alive?”

“It’s too late, I should just kill myself”

On 01/12/2022 at 8:01 AM, UnbornTao said:

Just remember to eventually move on to more empowering dispositions if you like.

How? 

[thisintegrated]

32 minutes ago, ThePoint said:

@thisintegrated Yes

Wow, what a crazy coincidence, lol.

It's almost like your beliefs, and the fact only you experience the negative effects of these beliefs, are linked

 

32 minutes ago, ThePoint said:

Do you hold negative beliefs about stepping on lava with your bare feet?

We can both step in lava and both die.  Yet.. we can both fuck/masturbate, and I'll feel great, and you'll feel like shit.  It's almost like "death" and "imaginary psychological effects" are different things???

Edited December 4, 2022 by thisintegrated

[ThePoint]

3 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

It's almost like your beliefs, and the fact only you experience the negative effects of these beliefs, are linked

@thisintegrated The belief is formed from my experience with masturbation. 

Perhaps it’s more accurate to call it a mental model.

Since I experience negative effects from masturbating, my mind creates a mental model (belief) that masturbating does not serve me.

Similar to how if you were to try to put your foot on lava, your mind will form a belief that it shouldn’t step on lava because it is painful and burns your foot.

3 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

We can both step in lava and both die.  Yet.. we can both fuck/masturbate, and I'll feel great, and you'll feel like shit.  It's almost like "death" and "imaginary psychological effects" are different things???

To be clear, I’m talking about masturbation, not having sex.

Do you honestly ‘feel great’ from masturbating?

I have three questions for you:

1. How often do you masturbate? How many times a day or week?

2. How much time do you spend per week masturbating on average (a range is fine)?

3. How do you feel immediately after you masturbate? How are your energy levels?

[thisintegrated]

16 minutes ago, ThePoint said:

@thisintegrated The belief is formed from my experience with masturbation. 

Perhaps it’s more accurate to call it a mental model.

Since I experience negative effects from masturbating, my mind creates a mental model (belief) that masturbating does not serve me.

Similar to how if you were to try to put your foot on lava, your mind will form a belief that it shouldn’t step on lava because it is painful and burns your foot.

To be clear, I’m talking about masturbation, not having sex.

If masturbation is bad, then how could sex be any different?  It's the exact same process going on in your body.  Cumming on a paper towel, or cumming in a vagina, it's all the same to your dick.  Why would your dick care what it cums on ..like ..seriously.  It's just a piece of meat, it doesn't think that deep.

 

16 minutes ago, ThePoint said:

Do you honestly ‘feel great’ from masturbating?

Yeah usually.

 

Quote

I have three questions for you:

1. How often do you masturbate? How many times a day or week?

What do you mean by masturbate?  What would flood-flow exercises be?  What if I don't cum?

I do something every day, but only masturbate in the traditional sense maybe once or twice a week.

 

Quote

2. How much time do you spend per week masturbating on average (a range is fine)?

Again depends on definitions.

 

Quote

3. How do you feel immediately after you masturbate? How are your energy levels?

Depends on time of day.  If I'm in bed already tired, it'll make it easier to sleep.  I think it lowers blood pressure or something.  But during the day, it'll psychologically boost energy as it's a big distraction out of the way, and boost dopamine levels temporarily.  It's like how listening to intense music in the morning can get you pumped up for the day.

Edited December 4, 2022 by thisintegrated

[Osaid]

4 hours ago, ThePoint said:

• Less energy
• Less motivation 
• Less drive

Interesting. You might have some mild POIS. Or, it might just be your own negative projections after you masturbate, which is the more common occurrence. For example, feeling shame is not inherent to masturbation, it's just something you might project onto the activity. And then, of course, feeling shame can affect drive and motivation and energy. It can ripple on itself like that.

If you were to completely let go of abstinence, how often would you do it normally?

4 hours ago, ThePoint said:

Why do you think this is a natural impulse?

The desire to release sexual energy is absolutely a natural impulse, which you must learn to co-exist with. It's built into your psychology and biology. To shut it out would kind of be like shutting out the impulse for food or water. Is it possible? Maybe. Is it in your best interest? Not necessarily.

4 hours ago, ThePoint said:

I should look out for this trap. How can I know if I am doing this?

I’ve been having a lot of self-defeating thoughts lately like

“You’re so dumb”

“You’re pathetic”

“How are you still alive?”

“It’s too late, I should just kill myself”

For me, I can just immediately recognize these beliefs as false and illusory. I just can't take them seriously. I can't believe in them with a straight face, It's like trying to force myself to believe in Santa Claus. You need to deeply deconstruct these beliefs and realize how silly and relative they are. Actually take the time and effort to do this so it properly impacts your psyche.

"You're pathetic" By what standards? The standards that you just made up? The standards that the people around you made up? Why are you basing how you feel on arbitrary made-up standards? Why are you giving these standards so much authority? Also, is it even beneficial to think of self-deprecating thoughts? All it does is perpetuate self-deprecation, which creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. You're shooting yourself in the foot over some relative arbitrary standards you've created. You could literally become a millionaire, and still continue to believe you're pathetic. You could be a millionaire, and the people around you could still believe you're pathetic. It's relative. This is a silly game to play and believe in.

Whenever you ascribe this quality of being "pathetic", you are projecting standards onto something, and then when that thing doesn't fit those standards, that thing is supposed to feel bad about itself. This is the entire game and function of using the word "pathetic" in a nutshell. It's a crude and unconscious form of motivation. It literally functions by you not being aware of how it really works.

 

 

 

[AtheisticNonduality]

This is not a problem with masturbation; this is a problem with OCD.

[LSD-Rumi]

@ThePoint You may have a disease called POIS, post orgasm illness syndrome. I have this exact disease, and it casued me a lot of suffering back when I was a teenager and my early twneties ( I am 27, not old). Search for it online if you are interested. The thing that worked for me, it is masturbate in a more conscious way, You need to feel the sexual energy all your body, and the orgasm should feel smooth not jerky or you will have symptoms. Try changing how you masturbate instead of abstaining. Masturbation now feels so positve and I have a clear mind and peace after it. I used to be so tired and depressed after masturbation  in my old days.

Edited December 4, 2022 by LSD-Rumi

[Osaid]

11 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

You may have a disease called POIS, post orgasm illness syndrome. I have this exact disease, and it casued me a lot of suffering back when I was a teenager and my early twneties ( I am 27, not old). Search for it online if you are interested. The thing that worked for me, it is masturbate in a more conscious way, You need to feel the sexual energy all your body, and the orgasm should feel smooth not jerky or you will have symptoms. Try changing how you masturbate instead of abstaining. Masturbation now feels so positve and I have a clear mind and peace after it. I used to be so tired and depressed after masturbation  in my old days.

Seems like you've managed to find a way to somewhat cure POIS, that's quite an accomplishment. 

There are different ways to masturbate and orgasm, and I do feel like they have different effects on sexual energy, so it's interesting that engaging in something like that would prevent POIS from flaring up.

But yeah, clear-minded and peaceful is basically how you should feel after doing it. It's like stepping out of a shower, very refreshing.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Osaid

[ThePoint]

On 04/12/2022 at 7:27 PM, thisintegrated said:

If masturbation is bad, then how could sex be any different?  It's the exact same process going on in your body.  Cumming on a paper towel, or cumming in a vagina, it's all the same to your dick.  Why would your dick care what it cums on ..like ..seriously.  It's just a piece of meat, it doesn't think that deep.

@thisintegrated 

Masturbation is much easier to access than sex. 

You can masturbate multiple times a day. You can masturbate daily. 

You can do the same with sex, but it is harder and more time consuming. 

When you can masturbate to pixels on a screen, what drive do you have to go and have real sex?

On 04/12/2022 at 7:27 PM, thisintegrated said:

Yeah usually.

Okay this just sounds insane to me.

You’re telling me you genuinely feel great after masturbating? You don’t feel like like you lost 50% of the energy you had left pre-masturbation?

How do you feel after you masturbaye?

On 04/12/2022 at 7:27 PM, thisintegrated said:

What do you mean by masturbate?  What would flood-flow exercises be?  What if I don't cum?

 

By masturbation I am talking about masturbating until you ejaculate/cum. I don’t know what flood-flow exercises are.

On 04/12/2022 at 7:27 PM, thisintegrated said:

I do something every day, but only masturbate in the traditional sense maybe once or twice a week.

What do you mean by ‘something’?

If by the traditional sense you are referring to ejaculation, then that still sounds crazy to me that you feel great after masturbating even if it’s once or twice a week. I masturbate daily and I feel worse every time I do it. Do you experience urges in between the times you do it?

On 04/12/2022 at 7:27 PM, thisintegrated said:

Again depends on definitions.

Ejaculation.

On 04/12/2022 at 7:27 PM, thisintegrated said:

Depends on time of day.  If I'm in bed already tired, it'll make it easier to sleep.  I think it lowers blood pressure or something.  But during the day, it'll psychologically boost energy as it's a big distraction out of the way, and boost dopamine levels temporarily.  It's like how listening to intense music in the morning can get you pumped up for the day.

Bro what am I reading lol? Are you trolling or something? 

I experience the literal opposite effect. If I’m in bed already tired and I masturbate, it makes it harder and takes me longer to fall asleep.

During the day if I do it, I completely lose motivation for everything and it feels like it depletes my dopamine.

Similar with music, if I listen to music I just start daydreaming instead and it distracts me. It doesn’t pump me up.

[ThePoint]

On 04/12/2022 at 7:55 PM, Osaid said:

Or, it might just be your own negative projections after you masturbate, which is the more common occurrence. For example, feeling shame is not inherent to masturbation, it's just something you might project onto the activity. And then, of course, feeling shame can affect drive and motivation and energy. It can ripple on itself like that.

@Osaid Even when I stop caring about masturbation entirely and get rid of my projections of it I still experience those effects, just without the “damn it you did it again” aspect.

On 04/12/2022 at 7:55 PM, Osaid said:

If you were to completely let go of abstinence, how often would you do it normally?

Daily. I use it as a coping mechanism.

On 04/12/2022 at 7:55 PM, Osaid said:

The desire to release sexual energy is absolutely a natural impulse, which you must learn to co-exist with. It's built into your psychology and biology. To shut it out would kind of be like shutting out the impulse for food or water. Is it possible? Maybe. Is it in your best interest? Not necessarily.

Are you sure? I don’t know man. I never had an impulse to release sexual energy until my first time masturbating.

On 04/12/2022 at 7:55 PM, Osaid said:

For me, I can just immediately recognize these beliefs as false and illusory. I just can't take them seriously. I can't believe in them with a straight face, It's like trying to force myself to believe in Santa Claus. You need to deeply deconstruct these beliefs and realize how silly and relative they are. Actually take the time and effort to do this so it properly impacts your psyche.

They feel true though. 
 

 

On 04/12/2022 at 7:55 PM, Osaid said:

"You're pathetic" By what standards? The standards that you just made up? The standards that the people around you made up? Why are you basing how you feel on arbitrary made-up standards? Why are you giving these standards so much authority? Also, is it even beneficial to think of self-deprecating thoughts? All it does is perpetuate self-deprecation, which creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. You're shooting yourself in the foot over some relative arbitrary standards you've created. You could literally become a millionaire, and still continue to believe you're pathetic. You could be a millionaire, and the people around you could still believe you're pathetic. It's relative. This is a silly game to play and believe in.

Pathetic by my standards I guess. I wouldn’t be surprised if I still thought I was pathetic even while being a millionaire. I missed out on 2 life changing opportunities in the past which would have made me a millionaire by now. But I’m not the same person I used to be. I’m a loser now, or I feel like a loser.

Isn’t there a benefit in accepting that I’m a loser and pushing myself to get out of being a loser?

On 04/12/2022 at 7:55 PM, Osaid said:

Whenever you ascribe this quality of being "pathetic", you are projecting standards onto something, and then when that thing doesn't fit those standards, that thing is supposed to feel bad about itself. This is the entire game and function of using the word "pathetic" in a nutshell. It's a crude and unconscious form of motivation. It literally functions by you not being aware of how it really works.

Thanks. Makes sense. What should my solution be? Lower my standards? I don’t want to lower my standards though.

[ThePoint]

On 04/12/2022 at 8:02 PM, AtheisticNonduality said:

This is not a problem with masturbation; this is a problem with OCD

@AtheisticNonduality 

This isn’t OCD. I genuinely feel worse after masturbating. My energy and motivation get even worse. I know this is not about OCD because I have OCD, so I know what the difference is. I know what an obsession feels like and this is not one of them.

[Osaid]

52 minutes ago, ThePoint said:

Even when I stop caring about masturbation entirely and get rid of my projections of it I still experience those effects, just without the “damn it you did it again” aspect.

If this is true, you probably have some form of POIS or some other related ailment. Normally you should feel fine after doing it.

Random question, but do you feel like the negative effects of masturbation become more tolerable when you abstain more? If you compared masturbating everyday to masturbating after a week of abstinence, would it feel different or the same? Or is it equally bad?

Here are some Actualized.org threads on POIS:

What I find really interesting is that the OP in the second thread proposes a similar solution to the one @LSD-Rumi gave:

It seems that different approaches to masturbation can lead to alleviated symptoms. 

In my own experience, I've noticed that some forms of masturbation tend to maintain much more sexual energy, to the point where you can easily go for multiple rounds and have multiple orgasms. It does seem to impact sexual energy differently, and it can feel different too.

1 hour ago, ThePoint said:

Are you sure?

Yes.

You have an entire organ attached to you that is dedicated to sex, and many different physiological and psychological complexes dedicated to maintaining your sexuality. You're really pushing the envelope by trying to shut away these faculties of your body.

1 hour ago, ThePoint said:

I never had an impulse to release sexual energy until my first time masturbating.

This doesn't mean it's not natural. It just means there was a time period where you didn't have the urge to release sexual energy. Which is still natural. It's called prepubescence. Most people experience this as well.

Even if you don't masturbate, it'll come out in a wet dream sooner or later. Notice that once you start abstaining, you also start having wet dreams.

1 hour ago, ThePoint said:

Isn’t there a benefit in accepting that I’m a loser and pushing myself to get out of being a loser?

There is a benefit. But there's an even greater benefit in pushing yourself without thinking you're a loser. You need to find a deeper and more inspiring goal than just "not being a loser". Negative motivation is just unnecessary, and ultimately delusional.

You have to be careful with this stuff. Accepting that you're a loser is the same as accepting falsehood. It's a house of cards. It's unsustainable, because it's untrue. It also carries mental karma with it. So now, your world is gonna be filtered through this perception of "loser vs winner", even after you accomplish your goals. There are other complications that come with it as well, because it's based on falsehood, so there's all these strings and false perspectives attached with it that you have to deal with later on.

1 hour ago, ThePoint said:

Thanks. Makes sense. What should my solution be? Lower my standards? I don’t want to lower my standards though.

You can make whatever standards you want. The delusion begins when you create a self-image out of those standards.

This is just about accurately perceiving things, nothing else. Standards are just that, standards. The problem starts when you replace the word "standards" with "loser", which has unnecessary baggage in the form of self-negativity and self-deprecation.

A "loser" is just someone who doesn't fit a certain set of standards that someone made up, similar to "pathetic".

If you want to completely break the façade of these words, simply ask: "How am I a loser?" or "How am I pathetic?", then you're forced to convey the standards that you are projecting. These negative words function by lacking nuance, so when you bring out nuance, it suddenly becomes more objective and non-negative.

For example: "How am I a loser?"

"Because I ended up smoking weed yesterday even though I was trying to abstain from it"  <<<< These are the standards being broken. There's no negativity. It's just describing an action.

"Loser" <<<< This is the negative self-deprecating character you conjured up and decided to identify with because of the standards shown above.

2 hours ago, ThePoint said:

What should my solution be?

Positive motivation. Get inspired by the end result of what you're working towards. Get inspired by everything you gain from making the decision to pursue hardship. Remember, you can quit at anytime, but you don't. This is a decision you made out of love for yourself. Out of love for your future self. Out of love for the best version of yourself. Thank yourself for it, because even though it's hard and scary and confusing, you do it anyways, because you want the best for yourself.

[thisintegrated]

14 hours ago, ThePoint said:

When you can masturbate to pixels on a screen, what drive do you have to go and have real sex?

That's what this is about?

[LSD-Rumi]

@ThePoint You have this disease. Search for way to treat it. These people you are talking to, don't have this "curse" and this is why you are surpised by what they are saying. You are built different, accept that and start from there. There is nothing wrong with porn or masturbation, get this bs out of your mind. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postorgasmic_illness_syndrome

[ThePoint]

On 06/12/2022 at 7:37 PM, Osaid said:

Random question, but do you feel like the negative effects of masturbation become more tolerable when you abstain more? If you compared masturbating everyday to masturbating after a week of abstinence, would it feel different or the same? Or is it equally bad?

@Osaid After a week if not doing it, it FEELS a lot worse if I do it because the difference is much more apparent (due to the difference I feel after not doing it for a week), even though it might not objectively be worse. 

It’s like jumping into hot water when you weren’t in hot water before.

If I were to masturbate everyday the difference doesn’t feel that apparent because it’s like I am in the hot water anyway so my body got accustomed to it, but this is not a good thing because I am always in an unmotivated low energy state.

On 06/12/2022 at 7:37 PM, Osaid said:

This doesn't mean it's not natural. It just means there was a time period where you didn't have the urge to release sexual energy. Which is still natural. It's called prepubescence. Most people experience this as well.

Even if you don't masturbate, it'll come out in a wet dream sooner or later. Notice that once you start abstaining, you also start having wet dreams.

Yes. I had many times where I woke up with semen in my pants before I ever masturbated. But I still did not have any urges to release sexual energy.

The only thing that lead me to masturbating was my peers doing it and talking about it. 
 

On 06/12/2022 at 7:37 PM, Osaid said:

There is a benefit. But there's an even greater benefit in pushing yourself without thinking you're a loser. You need to find a deeper and more inspiring goal than just "not being a loser". Negative motivation is just unnecessary, and ultimately delusional.

You have to be careful with this stuff. Accepting that you're a loser is the same as accepting falsehood. It's a house of cards. It's unsustainable, because it's untrue. It also carries mental karma with it. So now, your world is gonna be filtered through this perception of "loser vs winner", even after you accomplish your goals. There are other complications that come with it as well, because it's based on falsehood, so there's all these strings and false perspectives attached with it that you have to deal with later on.

You’re right. Thanks.

On 06/12/2022 at 7:37 PM, Osaid said:

If you want to completely break the façade of these words, simply ask: "How am I a loser?" or "How am I pathetic?", then you're forced to convey the standards that you are projecting. These negative words function by lacking nuance, so when you bring out nuance, it suddenly becomes more objective and non-negative.

Okay. I’ll try now.

How am I pathetic and a loser?

I’m a loser and pathetic because I am wasting my potential. I’m a and pathetic loser because I can’t motivate myself to do anything.

I’m a loser and pathetic because I don’t take enough action.

On 06/12/2022 at 7:37 PM, Osaid said:

Positive motivation. Get inspired by the end result of what you're working towards. Get inspired by everything you gain from making the decision to pursue hardship. Remember, you can quit at anytime, but you don't. This is a decision you made out of love for yourself. Out of love for your future self. Out of love for the best version of yourself. Thank yourself for it, because even though it's hard and scary and confusing, you do it anyways, because you want the best for yourself.

I can’t feel inspired anymore. It’s like I’ve lost that emotion entirely. I’m not inspired by the goals I used to have. I don’t feel any spark anymore. I don’t care about anything anymore. I’m just apathetic.

 

[ThePoint]

On 07/12/2022 at 7:27 AM, thisintegrated said:

That's what this is about?

@thisintegrated Only partly. The main thing is how masturbation is robbing me of my life because it makes me less motivated to do anything. 

I don’t want this to come off as rude, but I’m still interested in your answers to my questions.

On 07/12/2022 at 8:03 AM, LSD-Rumi said:

@ThePoint You have this disease. Search for way to treat it. These people you are talking to, don't have this "curse" and this is why you are surpised by what they are saying. You are built different, accept that and start from there. There is nothing wrong with porn or masturbation, get this bs out of your mind. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postorgasmic_illness_syndrome

@LSD-Rumi @Osaid
Y’all are telling me that everyone that’s on NoFap and Semen Retention that relates to these symptoms has POIS? Over 1 million+ people?