No Nut November

[ThePoint]

Day 14:

This is the second week of November.

I have missed counting some days on this journal.

Though, I do wonder if counting the days is helping me or hindering me.

Counting the days keeps masturbation on my mind.

If I were to just forget about it, would I even need to be counting the days?

Does a non-masturbator count the days he doesn't masturbate? No. Then why should I?

A person who has never masturbated before wouldn't count the days he hasn't masturbated. It just doesn't exist in his mind.

For example, I have never smoked before. Do I count the days I haven't smoked? Nope. Why would I need to? I've never done it.

If anyone is reading this, let me know your thoughts on counting days. Is it actually helpful or does it hinder you?

Edited November 14, 2022 by ThePoint

[Osaid]

3 minutes ago, ThePoint said:

If anyone is reading this, let me know your thoughts on counting days. Is it actually helpful or does it hinder you?

Hindrance IMO. It creates a bunch of stories and projections about "how far you've come" and "how long" it is.

If you lower your perception of time things will go by quicker, because time is relative, so if you perceive it less you'll be affected by it less.

 

[ThePoint]

On 14/11/2022 at 3:55 PM, Osaid said:

Hindrance IMO. It creates a bunch of stories and projections about "how far you've come" and "how long" it is.

@Osaid What types of issues could those stories and projections cause? Why does it make you more likely to relapse? 

On 14/11/2022 at 3:55 PM, Osaid said:

If you lower your perception of time things will go by quicker, because time is relative, so if you perceive it less you'll be affected by it less.

How do you lower your perception of time? 

[ThePoint]

I am starting to feel like a lost cause. I am so hopeless. How am I ever going to defeat this beast called masturbation? I'm finding it so hard to conquer this. 

[Osaid]

6 minutes ago, ThePoint said:

What types of issues could those stories and projections cause? Why does it make you more likely to relapse? 

They can distort your experience.

If you're counting days, you're also emphasizing your perception of time. Notice how much longer one minute feels when you consciously count every second compared to when you don't even pay attention to it. Relativity 101.

And then, on top of that, you're likely to create stories out of this prolonged perception of time. It will make it seem harder because it will seem longer. It will also help you make excuses. For example, I haven't relapsed in 20 whole days, so it's not as bad if I relapse now, at least I'm not relapsing on day 1. Stuff like that.

For a clearer image of what I'm saying, imagine someone meditating in a room for 10 minutes, compared to someone who sits in a room for 10 minutes but hyper-analytically counts every second they are in that room in the hopes that they will eventually reach 10 minutes. Notice how radically different the mental game of these two people are. The guy who counts will be much more perturbed than the meditator, and they will likely have a story to tell about how taxing the experience was.

Basically, the counted days get put on a pedestal. And then the ego uses the importance it projects onto the counted days to it's own advantage.

16 minutes ago, ThePoint said:

How do you lower your perception of time? 

-Not counting days

-Entering flow state, through work or some other activity

-Meditating

-Music

-Showering

Anything that pulls you into the present moment, really. 

 

 

[UnbornTao]

You might be stuck in a victim mindset and have created a story for yourself about being this "hopeless" guy, and ended up believing it. I suggest you stop over-intellectualizing and start working on your integrity. For that, get clear on your intentions. You may not have had the intention to stop this habit and just fooled yourself from the beginning. Make a distinction between wishing and intent.

For example, yesterday I wanted to have a smoothie for breakfast but drank coffee instead. Even before it was made explicit through action, my intention to drink coffee was already clear to me regardless of me wanting a smoothie.

Start by doing whatever you say you're gonna do. If not, don't say it, even to yourself. Start small: "I'm going to meditate for 10 seconds." Eventually, your word will start to have power, your self -esteem and -trust will increase, etc.

Good luck.

Edited November 26, 2022 by UnbornTao

[ThePoint]

@Osaid That makes sense.

A person that has never masturbated before doesn’t count how many days he hasn’t masturbated. 

My entire life up until the first time I ever masturbated, I didn’t count how many days I haven’t masturbated. It simply wasn’t on my radar and it was a waste to think about something I don’t do.

I attract what I think about.

By counting days, I am still keeping masturbation on my radar. So that makes it more likely for me to relapse.

The ideal situation is where I forget about masturbation entirely, right? 

What do you think about this thought process?

18 hours ago, Osaid said:

-Not counting days

-Entering flow state, through work or some other activity

-Meditating

-Music

-Showering

Anything that pulls you into the present moment, really. 

I haven’t been in flow state for almost 2 years. I have so much brain fog and fatigue now that it’s hard to get into flow state. Could you list some examples of flow inducing activities? 

Isn’t music a distraction that releases dopamine but doesn’t add anything to your life? I never feel like my life improves when I listen to music. 

When I listen to music I start daydreaming about imaginary scenes and scenarios that the music would fit in. E.g. if I’m listening to some hyped up song I’ll imagine I’m in a fighting scene. So isn’t it a distraction?

How does SHOWERING lower your perception of time??? 

[ThePoint]

17 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

You might be stuck in a victim mindset and have created a story for yourself about being this "hopeless" guy, and ended up believing it.

@UnbornTao That’s what I have been considering.

I made a post about it a month ago (holy crap I can’t believe it’s already been a month and I’ve made basically no progress in my life):

 

17 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

You may not have had the intention to stop this habit and just fooled yourself from the beginning. Make a distinction between wishing and intent.

For example, yesterday I wanted to have a smoothie for breakfast but drank coffee instead. Even before it was made explicit through action, my intention to drink coffee was already clear to me regardless of me wanting a smoothie.

I don’t understand. Which one would’ve been better for you to have? A smoothie or a coffee?? 

17 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Start by doing whatever you say you're gonna do. If not, don't say it, even to yourself. Start small: "I'm going to meditate for 10 seconds." Eventually, your word will start to have power, your self -esteem and -trust will increase, etc.

Good luck.

Okay. So I should say it out loud right?

[Osaid]

48 minutes ago, ThePoint said:

What do you think about this thought process?

When you treat something like it's a big deal, it becomes a big deal. 

My longest streaks have happened accidentally, where I even forgot to keep track of when I started, so I had no idea how much days had passed exactly. It was impossible to accurately calculate the days cause I didn't even remember. This is really good, because it renders the logical/calculating side of the equation useless, or at least it removes its importance.

2 hours ago, ThePoint said:

Could you list some examples of flow inducing activities? 

-Video games

-Sports, exercise, physical activities

-Creative work, writing, painting, animating, etc.

2 hours ago, ThePoint said:

Isn’t music a distraction that releases dopamine but doesn’t add anything to your life? I never feel like my life improves when I listen to music. 

Music is one of the most beautiful things in life, IME. I basically feel high listening to it.

If you want something more practical and tangible out of music, you can listen to it alongside other more productive things. It can be a really powerful motivator, so there's a practical use for you. You can even listen to music while doing chores or laborious tasks, and it will make those tasks feel much shorter than usual, because music pulls you into a timeless state. So, you can supplement certain activities with music to speed them up. I think that can be considered an improvement. 

But, I get where you're coming from, you label it a "distraction" because it isn't explicitly productive. There are lots of things which might not be super productive but will put you in a timeless state. The things in my list aren't necessarily productive, they're just examples of things that easily dissipate the experience of time. 

2 hours ago, ThePoint said:

When I listen to music I start daydreaming about imaginary scenes and scenarios that the music would fit in. E.g. if I’m listening to some hyped up song I’ll imagine I’m in a fighting scene.

Yeah, same. You probably have maladaptive/immersive daydreaming like I do.

Music can create a lot of energy and inspiration from within you, which is helpful while you're doing certain tasks that might be mundane or laborious otherwise. If you're doing something that requires you to lift something heavy you'll literally feel stronger than usual while listening to music. 

2 hours ago, ThePoint said:

So isn’t it a distraction?

Depends on how you define distraction and also how you use music.

2 hours ago, ThePoint said:

How does SHOWERING lower your perception of time??? 

The physical stimuli of the water pulls you into the present moment. Have you ever felt like you could just stay in the shower forever? It forces you into a meditative state.

Pay attention to how your state of consciousness feels when you hop out of the shower. Your mind and your perception should feel more lighter and clearer, like you just came out of meditation. It "washes away" the thoughts you've accumulated throughout the day. 

[UnbornTao]

@ThePoint

No need to say it out loud. More importantly, it's what you "say" to yourself in other ways, like through your internal dialogue.

The point of that example was to distinguish between intent and desire, not to determine which option is the healthiest or best for me. 

Be straight with yourself. Maybe you just want to masturbate, and that's okay, but if you do, don't lie to yourself by saying that you didn't want to. Also, drop guilt, it's ineffective and unnecessary.

Simply create the intent to do something small everyday, and gradually build upon that.

Cheer up!

[ThePoint]

On 27/11/2022 at 9:39 PM, Osaid said:

My longest streaks have happened accidentally, where I even forgot to keep track of when I started, so I had no idea how much days had passed exactly. It was impossible to accurately calculate the days cause I didn't even remember.

@Osaid That really makes me wonder, because that is exactly the same with me.

My longest streaks have been when I simply just did not care and was busy with projects I was working on.

But this was before my debilitating health problems started, back when I wasn’t using masturbation as a crutch. 
 

On 27/11/2022 at 9:39 PM, Osaid said:

-Video games

Unless you make money from them or it’s your Life Purpose, aren’t video games a waste of time despite inducing flow state? They can also down-regulate your dopamine receptors because of how much dopamine they release (if you play them for enjoyment), right?

On 27/11/2022 at 9:39 PM, Osaid said:

Music is one of the most beautiful things in life, IME. I basically feel high listening to it.

That’s cool. Personally, I barely feel anything from music anymore  It just makes me feel like I’m wasting my time because I end up daydreaming, which is a waste of mental energy because it doesn’t lead to anything greater - it doesn’t build anything.

On 27/11/2022 at 9:39 PM, Osaid said:

Music can create a lot of energy and inspiration from within you, which is helpful while you're doing certain tasks that might be mundane or laborious otherwise. If you're doing something that requires you to lift something heavy you'll literally feel stronger than usual while listening to music. 

That makes sense. Probably why music playlists for gym workouts exist.

On 27/11/2022 at 9:39 PM, Osaid said:

If you want something more practical and tangible out of music, you can listen to it alongside other more productive things. It can be a really powerful motivator, so there's a practical use for you. You can even listen to music while doing chores or laborious tasks, and it will make those tasks feel much shorter than usual, because music pulls you into a timeless state. So, you can supplement certain activities with music to speed them up. I think that can be considered an improvement. 

Bro, I can’t listen to music alongside other more productive things.
 

It doesn’t make me more productive. 

I tend to just end up daydreaming instead. It distracts me from whatever I’m doing and puts me into fantasy land. 

 

On 27/11/2022 at 9:39 PM, Osaid said:

The physical stimuli of the water pulls you into the present moment. Have you ever felt like you could just stay in the shower forever? It forces you into a meditative state.

Pay attention to how your state of consciousness feels when you hop out of the shower. Your mind and your perception should feel more lighter and clearer, like you just came out of meditation. It "washes away" the thoughts you've accumulated throughout the day. 

I can’t relate to this at all. Showering is painful for me because my skin gets inflamed (yes, even when I used cold water), so I never felt better after leaving the shower. I’m left with a lot of (temporary) big red spots all over my skin, itchiness, and feeling uncomfortable for the next couple of hours after showering.

 

[ThePoint]

10 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

The point of that example was to distinguish between intent and desire, not to determine which option is the healthiest or best for me. 

@UnbornTao I still don't understand the difference between intent and desire.

Is it that action follows intention rather than what you want or don't want?

10 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Be straight with yourself. Maybe you just want to masturbate, and that's okay, but if you do, don't lie to yourself by saying that you didn't want to. Also, drop guilt, it's ineffective and unnecessary.

I have cravings to masturbate, but I don't want to have those cravings.

10 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Simply create the intent to do something small everyday, and gradually build upon that.

For example?

10 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Cheer up!

How do I cheer up on command?

[ThePoint]

Masturbation has ruined my life.

If I knew I had ADHD earlier, I wouldn’t have even considered the thought: “I won’t get addicted just from trying it once.” - Which is what the people telling me to try masturbating were saying. I would’ve known that ADHD makes me more prone to addiction, and would’ve avoided that thought entirely.

Now here I am, feeling hopeless, doubting whether I’ll ever defeat this thing.

[UnbornTao]

@ThePoint I might want to raise my arm without doing so. If I raise it, though, that actually shows intent. Action and intent seem to be inseparable.

Focus on intent. When it comes to action, that's the only requisite, not desire.

As the saying goes, "If wishes were horses, the homeless would ride."

Just make sure to start small, something you'd be ashamed not to do. Commit to one day without X, for example. Or meditate 10 seconds everyday for a week. Next week, 30 seconds or so. You set the bar.

3 hours ago, ThePoint said:

@UnbornTao

How do I cheer up on command?

Well, okay. Do it nevertheless.

[StarStruck]

@ThePoint I’m going to be honest with you because I see you suffering. So I’m going to be hard with you because I want you to get real. That is the only way for your suffering to end. The truth is that you will never stop masturbating with this mindset. You are weak and you have to change in your entirety. You need someone to push you and follow the advice that has given to you. I already told you to do 80 push ups per day (or less) but I bet you didn’t even follow that advice. Something that would give you discipline. The truth is that you don’t want to stop. 

[Osaid]

13 hours ago, ThePoint said:

aren’t video games a waste of time

Depends on how you define "waste of time".

13 hours ago, ThePoint said:

They can also down-regulate your dopamine receptors because of how much dopamine they release (if you play them for enjoyment), right?

Anything you enjoy can technically do this, but yeah it can be a significant source of dopamine.

13 hours ago, ThePoint said:

Personally, I barely feel anything from music anymore  It just makes me feel like I’m wasting my time because I end up daydreaming, which is a waste of mental energy because it doesn’t lead to anything greater

I personally can't really daydream from music if I'm not inspired to by the music.

I think it's possible that the music does affect you, but then you have intrusive thoughts about how it's a waste of time, which cuts away at the effect of the music. The enjoyment of music is largely psychological, similar to getting horny.

13 hours ago, ThePoint said:

I tend to just end up daydreaming instead. It distracts me from whatever I’m doing and puts me into fantasy land. 

Same. I don't do it often, but sometimes you're doing something that you can't really get distracted from though, maybe you're at work or lifting something heavy. Even washing dishes, I don't imagine myself stopping mid-way because of daydreams, cause my hands are gonna be wet and stuff, it would be annoying to stop doing that mid-way and then coming back later. Certain activities will be easier to not get distracted in. That's just me though.

13 hours ago, ThePoint said:

I can’t relate to this at all. Showering is painful for me because my skin gets inflamed (yes, even when I used cold water), so I never felt better after leaving the shower. I’m left with a lot of (temporary) big red spots all over my skin, itchiness, and feeling uncomfortable for the next couple of hours after showering.

The next closest thing to the effects of a shower is probably just meditation.

[Osaid]

10 hours ago, ThePoint said:

Masturbation has ruined my life.

How has it done that?

10 hours ago, ThePoint said:

Now here I am, feeling hopeless, doubting whether I’ll ever defeat this thing.

What does it mean to "defeat" masturbation?

Quote

I am starting to feel like a lost cause. I am so hopeless

These are beliefs, not feelings.

 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Osaid

[ThePoint]

11 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

I might want to raise my arm without doing so. If I raise it, though, that actually shows intent. Action and intent seem to be inseparable.

 

@UnbornTao

So the difference between wanting to raise your arm and intending to raise your arm is the outcome (whether your arm gets raised or not)?

11 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Just make sure to start small, something you'd be ashamed not to do. Commit to one day without X, for example. Or meditate 10 seconds everyday for a week. Next week, 30 seconds or so. You set the bar.

I’ve tried the starting small thing with meditation. What happens is once I work my way up to about 7-8 minutes (over the course of a few weeks), I end up not sticking to it.

It doesn’t get any easier despite doing it every day and incrementally increasing the duration. It’s like I lost my ability to build momentum in habits.

11 hours ago, StarStruck said:

@ThePoint I’m going to be honest with you because I see you suffering. So I’m going to be hard with you because I want you to get real. That is the only way for your suffering to end. The truth is that you will never stop masturbating with this mindset. You are weak and you have to change in your entirety. You need someone to push you and follow the advice that has given to you. I already told you to do 80 push ups per day (or less) but I bet you didn’t even follow that advice. Something that would give you discipline. The truth is that you don’t want to stop. 

@StarStruck Thanks bro.

I know I’m weak. That’s what I’ve been telling myself for the past couple of months. I believe I’m too weak to do anything. I can’t care about anything for some reason. I should be caring more about how weak I am but I just don’t care. How do I care more? And about the push ups, I can’t even do that many. That’s how weak I am. 
 

11 hours ago, StarStruck said:

The truth is that you don’t want to stop. 

I want to “want to stop”. How can I “want to stop”? How can I care more about stopping? It seems like I just don’t want to stop bad enough, but I don’t know how to make myself “want to stop” more.

 

[ThePoint]

2 hours ago, Osaid said:

How has it done that?

@Osaid It’s making my quality of life worse every time I do it. 

2 hours ago, Osaid said:

What does it mean to "defeat" masturbation?

To defeat the monster that wants me to keep doing it. The monster getting defeated means I no longer masturbate.

2 hours ago, Osaid said:

These are beliefs, not feelings.

Okay. “I am starting to believe I’m a lost cause. I believe I am hopeless.”

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by ThePoint

[thisintegrated]

13 minutes ago, ThePoint said:

@Osaid It’s making my quality of life worse every time I do it. 

Do you happen to, coincidentally, also hold negative beliefs about masturbation?

 

If I fully believed coffee is the devil, then I'd be disgusted every time drank some, and would even have physical symptoms.  My heart rate might go up, I may want to throw up, I may start to sweat, I may feel weak, I may see myself as pathetic.  All because coffee is the devil, and I just had some.

Would your views on masturbation be the same if you were a girl?  Would rubbing yourself ruin your life?