Enlightenment Bullshit

[vladorion]

En-light-enment literally has "light" in it. 

If one still has darkness/unconsciousness in his/her mind, it can't be considered enlightenment.

Buddhism describes it as overcoming 10 fetters:

      1.  Self-illusion (self-identity views; belief in personality)

      2.  Scepticism (uncertainty)

      3.  Attachment to rules and rituals (grasping at precepts and practices)

      4.  Sensual lust (craving)

      5.  Ill-will

      6.  Craving for fine-corporeal or material existence (passion for form)

      7.  Craving for incorporeal existence (passion for what is formless)

      8.  Conceit

      9.  Restlessness

    10.  Ignorance

 

[Breakingthewall]

29 minutes ago, vladorion said:

The reason you'd see others as petty is because you have that pettiness within yourself that your 'God Realization' helps you deny even more.

Yeah, agree. when i said same as you i meant same as me. and it was a stupid post written in a bad moment. there are people of integrity, transparency, with whom having dealings is a pleasure and luck.

Anyway, you can have many real realizations and be very unperfected.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[aurum]

14 hours ago, Thought Art said:

I just think the word enlightenment is a little groundless

Yes it is.

A spectrum of awakening is more accurate.

Regardless, the best practical strategy for awakening seems to be to continually assume that there is further for you to go.

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Kuba Powiertowski said:

Is there any chance that someday I will see some of you as divine realization turns into simply being a god? In this life, of course. I mean, will I directly experience unconditional love, empathy, and understanding from either of you radiating in my unenlightened direction? Even if it is love in its lower form, I would like to experience it directly. I am not joking. On the contrary, forgive me if anything, my unenlightened naivety.

If you open your eyes you will see that you've been showered in my love all along

Edited November 1, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Hello from Russia]

Yeah, I actually liked a guy, it seems like just a language limitation/debate about wording

He is clearly not talking about awakening but rather about benefits of a more mindful and woke state I guess

[Gnosis]

There's much more to "sober enlightenment" as well. It depends on the depth of the discussion.

Actually, much of Leo's criticisms of Buddhism comes from not having studied it in enough depth and width.

There's actually a lot more there that is simply not highly evident to the general Western public due to insufficient English scholarship.

Unfortunately just by virtue of Buddhism being a traditional methodology, most of what you will find will indeed be largely religious ideology.

In Buddhist books you'll primarily find simplistic explanations of doctrines and lists of precepts just like any other religious text. This is the first thing people come across after Wikipedia pages so suffice to say that internet discussions of "Buddhism" is not what I'm referring to when I say "Buddhism."

The main issue with Buddhism or any traditional methodology is the enormous developmental gap between certain highly regarded historic masters who left behind literature and the status quo.

I'd also like to point out that it's inevitably easy to misunderstand some of Leo's points, which come from high level construct-awareness. There's a difference between just shitting on other positions and construct-awareness. That difference is probably not apparent to you.

Also there is very real "contradiction" or differences in opinion when it comes to high level spirituality. I think most people are not aware of this at all. i.e. That "highly enlightened" people can disagree in very stark ways.

Look, maybe he's gone off the deep end, but that doesn't make your misunderstanding of his points something other than misunderstanding.

[Gnosis]

What a weak awakening it must be to not even have the freedom to be caught up in our own imaginary nonsense.

[Leo Gura]

Buddhism is NOT God-Realization!

NOT

AT

ALL.

Until you truly get this, you shall remain a spiritual imbicile.

If you take my work seriously, one day you will realize that all of Buddhism was just a hoax designed by God to keep itself asleep.

But do you have enough Intelligence to understand me?

I doubt it.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Bojan V]

@Leo Gura

37 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Buddhism is NOT God-Realization!

NOT

AT

ALL.

Until you truly get this, you shall remain a spiritual imbicile.

If you take my work seriously, one day you will realize that all of Buddhism was just a hoax designed by God to keep itself asleep.

But do you have enough Intelligence to understand me?

I doubt it.

Would you say that nirvana is a much lower type of spiritual realization?

Is God-realization the highest of the high or is there something beyond even that?

[Leo Gura]

God-Realization is the end. It is a neverending Awakening to oneself.

Imagine being trapped in a neverending series of awakenings. That's God-Realization. It's an Awakening that never ends. You are completely conscious of how all of reality is just your Infinite Imagination.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Razard86]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

God-Realization is the end. It is a neverending Awakening to oneself.

Imagine being trapped in a neverending series of awakenings. That's God-Realization. It's an Awakening that never ends. You are completely conscious of how all of reality is just your Infinite Imagination.

^ This is why God is a mystery unto itself. It can never completely know itself because it is always moving beyond what it knows. Infinite ever more recontextualizations for all of infinity.

[Gnosis]

3 hours ago, Bojan V said:

@Leo Gura

Would you say that nirvana is a much lower type of spiritual realization?

Is God-realization the highest of the high or is there something beyond even that?

"Buddhism" is not "Nirvana."

Leo's criticisms of "Buddhism" is fine because in practice no one here will waste time doing a scholarly study of Buddhism to find the gems there.

But my criticism of him not having done so is irrefutable until he actually understands my point.

"Buddhism" is Omniscience spoken about from various limited contexts.

It's not most of Buddhism, but it's there. Leo is too gung-ho on distinguishing his teachings from everything else. I'll even say that's fine, but that doesn't mean my point is invalid.

[Leo Gura]

No amount of studying Buddhism will get you to understand God.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Gnosis]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Now amount of studying Buddhism will get you to understand God.

Sure, I understand that you speak from direct experience and that's both more valid and valuable.

However, it does not change the fact that you simply do not understand my point.

I thought your pursuit was pure understanding?

Maybe it'll help you refute Buddhism even better in the future if you understood it.

Or you could keep referring to a straw-man Buddhism. That's fine too, it's not like the internet as a whole knows much better than that.

[EternalForest]

23 hours ago, vladorion said:

I don't think so. Not sure how this relates to what I said.

Did you mean to say that someone who can't play can be a good coach?

Exactly. A great coach doesn't need to be a star athlete. You can understand something without being able to do it.

[Thought Art]

33 minutes ago, EternalForest said:

Exactly. A great coach doesn't need to be a star athlete. You can understand something without being able to do it.

Not all things are symmetrical 

[Thought Art]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

God-Realization is the end. It is a neverending Awakening to oneself.

Imagine being trapped in a neverending series of awakenings. That's God-Realization. It's an Awakening that never ends. You are completely conscious of how all of reality is just your Infinite Imagination.

I feel like this is part of the paradox of life 

[vladorion]

2 hours ago, EternalForest said:

Exactly. A great coach doesn't need to be a star athlete. You can understand something without being able to do it.

Let's say you understand a lot about relationships but your relationships suck.

What does that mean about your understanding?

If understanding doesn't translate into your life, it's a partial understanding at best.