Enlightenment Bullshit

[Carl-Richard]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You are.

And that's a serious error.

No I'm not?

[Breakingthewall]

43 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Breakingthewall The thing is, Leo is using different technologies (psychedelics) than most if not all Buddhist. So they have different reference experiences.

Yeah i know, maybe Leo goes deeper, it's possible because psychedelic are powerful, but at the end the idea is the same. Infinity, one, you. It can't be otherwise 

[Leo Gura]

Buddhism is simply not at all God-Realization.

But beside that point, you don't really even know what the highest Buddhist attainment really is. You have some fantasy of it, but you don't actually know. Buddhists themselves will disagree on it. How do you know who you can trust? The truth is you don't. You are blindly following some path because it happens to tickle you, and you blindly believe it will lead to the highest spiritual attainment. This is what every spiritual student is doing. Like monkeys following each other up a hill to a sheer cliff.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Thought Art]

@Leo Gura Who is? Me? Or that’s your view of many buddhists

I’m not a buddhist. But I do want to understand Buddhism and not strawman is or something. I enjoy the Buddhism I’ve learned.

I’m too meta bra for that 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Thought Art

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Who is? Me?

When I say "you" I am refering to everyone. It's not personal. These are all just classic traps of this work.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Buddhism is simply not at all God-Realization.

But beside that point, you don't really even know what the highest Buddhist attainment really is. You have some fantasy of it, but you don't actually know. Buddhists themselves will disagree on it. How do you know who you can trust? The truth is you don't. You are blindly following some path because it happens to tickle you, and you blindly believe it will lead to the highest spiritual attainment. This is what every spiritual student is doing. Like monkeys following each other up a hill to a sheer cliff.

I don't know what the highest attainment is, but I know there is something there worth pursuing. I also prefer to call it mysticism.

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

but I know there is something there worth pursuing

Yes, there is.

But also consider, the greatest deception will be smeared in honey.

If Buddhism was purely false, that would be way too easy. God's illusions are far more artful.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The truth is you don't. You are blindly following some path because it happens to tickle you, and you blindly believe it will lead to the highest spiritual attainment. This is what every spiritual student is doing. Like monkeys following each other up a hill to a sheer cliff.

3 hours ago, Thought Art said:

@Breakingthewall 

i don't know Buddhism in depth, but more or less the history of Buddha. a rich guy who feels the need to go deeper, tries different possibilities and along the way becomes detached from the human, from the spiritual search, from sex, etc. in short, deconstruct. when he has reached total deconstruction, looking at a river he realizes the reality of existence. that is, the eternal, infinite. what happens is that he did not have psychedelics, but more or less it is what you say, or any spiritual path. detachment, deconstruction, in his case, thousands of hours of meditation, in yours, special psychedelic treatment. but where you get to is the same, right? For my part, the way is reversed. it is the psychedelic that tells me where I should deconstruct, where I should detach myself. but in the end it is deconstruction and detachment. What else could be?

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

but where you get to is the same, right?

Wrong

[Breakingthewall]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Wrong

What is the difference? When they say, i realized the eternity, you can't know exactly what his realization has been, just as I can't know what yours has been. Why are you sure that the zen buddhists have not reached the bottom? There are text really deep, like the hisng hsing ming, or kukai

 

[Thought Art]

@Breakingthewall Idk, there’s the story of some of the Buddha’s enlightenment experiences. And, then there’s his actually teachings. This involves the 4 turnings of the wheel etc.. 

Its more like teaching you how to live well, heal your suffering etc

[The0Self]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not enlightenment at all.

Obviously.

By “it’s ingenious” I was talking about enlightenment. Not the video.

[Leo Gura]

49 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

What is the difference? When they say, i realized the eternity, you can't know exactly what his realization has been, just as I can't know what yours has been. Why are you sure that the zen buddhists have not reached the bottom? There are text really deep, like the hisng hsing ming, or kukai

There is no way I can explain it to you.  You'll only understand once you realize my level of God-Realization.

Eternity is not wrong, but it's peanuts compared to what I'm talking about.

One day you will Awaken so deeply you will realize that no one on this planet is Awake except for me and you.

35 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Obviously.

By “it’s ingenious” I was talking about enlightenment. Not the video.

Obviously I'm not expecting a video to be enlightenment. The guy simply doesn't know what enlightenment is. He's like a virgin talking about orgasms, and saying: An orgasm is when you cuddle with a naked woman.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Leo Gura

[EternalForest]

14 hours ago, vladorion said:

I don't care how much you understood in your trips if your life doesn't reflect it.

Let me ask you something, do you think that the best players automatically make the best coaches?

[The0Self]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Obviously I'm not expecting a video to be enlightenment. The guy simply doesn't know what enlightenment is. He's like a virgin talking about orgasms, and saying: An orgasm is when you cuddle with a naked woman.

Yeah exactly.

[Kuba Powiertowski]

Is there any chance that someday I will see some of you as divine realization turns into simply being a god? In this life, of course. I mean, will I directly experience unconditional love, empathy, and understanding from either of you radiating in my unenlightened direction? Even if it is love in its lower form, I would like to experience it directly. I am not joking. On the contrary, forgive me if anything, my unenlightened naivety.

[Kuba Powiertowski]

Otherwise, I may think, that the title of this thread is actually correct. With a note - your enlightenment is bullshit. Mental self-masturbation as you say. And nothing more.

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

One day you will Awaken so deeply

Sure, awakening is addictive. once you start there is no turning back.

3 hours ago, Kuba Powiertowski said:

your enlightenment is bullshit. Mental self-masturbation as you say. And nothing more.

realizing that you are infinity has many advantages. improve your quality of life x100. in fact, you realize that before your life was shit, so shit that you hid from yourself realities like death because they were impossible to swallow. You did like children: if I don't look at it, it doesn't exist. anxiety, addiction, falsehood. realizing infinity opens your heart to love. love to life, to yourself, to existence. But that doesn't mean you go around giving hugs. on the contrary, people are revealed as so petty (same as you were), that they make you want not to deal with humans. You see you dealt with people because you needed to. belonging, approval. when you stop needing this, they can go to hell (with love)

Edited October 31, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[vladorion]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Sure, awakening is addictive. once you start there is no turning back.

realizing that you are infinity has many advantages. improve your quality of life x100. in fact, you realize that before your life was shit, so shit that you hid from yourself realities like death because they were impossible to swallow. You did like children: if I don't look at it, it doesn't exist. anxiety, addiction, falsehood. realizing infinity opens your heart to love. love to life, to yourself, to existence. But that doesn't mean you go around giving hugs. on the contrary, people are revealed as so petty (same as you were), that they make you want not to deal with humans. You see you dealt with people because you needed to. belonging, approval. when you stop needing this, they can go to hell (with love)

A very good description of spiritual ego.

If you truly saw them as nothing other than God, no way you could write something like this.

The reason you'd see others as petty is because you have that pettiness within yourself that your 'God Realization' helps you deny even more.

Edited October 31, 2022 by vladorion

[vladorion]

5 hours ago, EternalForest said:

Let me ask you something, do you think that the best players automatically make the best coaches?

I don't think so. Not sure how this relates to what I said.

Did you mean to say that someone who can't play can be a good coach?