Enlightenment Bullshit

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Lock this is you want.

Why?

[Thought Art]

@Leo Gura thought you guys were just bickering maybe I’m wrong 

[Osaid]

This is an answer which is good for getting people into spirituality. It's not very technical. It's kind of muddled and all over the place. He talks about energy levels, perhaps to make it seem more practical and relatable, so people will have some sort of motivation to pursue enlightenment. It's an extremely basic answer, all he says is that discerning thoughts from your present experience will begin the road to enlightenment. He doesn't really answer the question directly, so I can see the problem Leo has, because the title acts as if it is some clear and explicit explanation of enlightenment, when it is not.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Osaid

[Danioover9000]

@Thought Art

   I think, and I could be wrong, the guy in the video explaining enlightenment was explaining it as an experience using words relatable to an atheist, scientific or rationalistic mind would likely to hear,  which the intervieweris clearly a Sam Harris type. The guy is obviously not talking about GOD realization, nor any other form of spiritual experiences like no self, true self, cessation, mystical experiences, miracles, paranormal experiences, psychedelic experiences.

   I agree too, that Leo, me, you and other people need to curse less over time, and bless more.

   

 

[Danioover9000]

@Osaid

8 minutes ago, Osaid said:

This is an answer which is good for getting people into spirituality. It's not very technical. It's kind of muddled and all over the place. He talks about energy levels, perhaps to make it seem more practical and relatable, so people will have some sort of motivation to pursue enlightenment. It's an extremely basic answer, all he says is that discerning thoughts from your present experience will begin the road to enlightenment, he doesn't really answer the question directly, so I can see the problem Leo has, because the title acts as if it is some clear and explicit explanation of enlightenment, when it is not.

   So Leo fell for the click bait title?

[Osaid]

6 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

So Leo fell for the click bait title?

Yeah basically

[aurum]

15 hours ago, Thought Art said:

In Leo's most recent blog post he says this man discussed enlightenment is full of bullshit and self deception. 

Personally, it sounds to me like he is discussing aspects of a sober state, and how someone can develop mastery over their body mind. How, we can begin to understand the differences of and idea and actuality, our story vs actuality, and how physiology and energy plays a major role in our state/ how we feel. To me these are all aspects of a sober enlightenment, or spiritual/ perosnal development. Basically how to be sane.

He isn't a psychonaut becoming God Realized that is for sure. But is he full of shit? I don't think so. There are different facets and aspects to life and not everyone will go as deep or develop the same toolkits and goals with their spirituality.

However, I also recognize Leo's statements are coming from someone who's goal are to totally awaken, and teach and share God Realization. 

If all you listen to is channels like the one Leo critiques though... that is a glass ceiling you put on yourself. 

 

https://www.actualized.org/insights/enlightenment-bullshit

 

It’s just a super basic, materialist version of enlightenment.

Everything he is describing is just more content within the Dream. Your body is content. Feelings are content. None of that means you’ve realized that you are the Creator of said content or that you ARE the content. It’s not sufficiently meta or epistemically rigorous. 

To be clear, practically I would say there is some correlation with what he is saying and spiritual growth. But it’s just a really watered down version of what spirituality can be. Possibly good for newbies, who would not be open to anything beyond this anyway.

[The0Self]

Enlightenment is right where you left it.

Which is exactly the last place you'd look.

It’s ingenious.

[Leo Gura]

It's not enlightenment at all.

This video has managed to even confuse some of ya'll. Hence why it is so dangerous.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Kuba Powiertowski]

This discussion will go on forever. But that is the idea of any forum. To share experiences and so on. And it's good. I don't know any other worldwide space for expressing such different views on spiritual development, politics, and many more. That is very good, indeed. You are the host, we are the guests, and you set up some rules for participants. That is the usual stuff, and what can I say more? Thank you. And that is it. This debate will never end since different, even the same, experiences are filtered through different minds (to not overuse the ego word). This will always be different. But when you go beyond the mind, the core is the same. And isn't it all about?

[Thought Art]

4 hours ago, aurum said:

It’s just a super basic, materialist version of enlightenment.

Everything he is describing is just more content within the Dream. Your body is content. Feelings are content. None of that means you’ve realized that you are the Creator of said content or that you ARE the content. It’s not sufficiently meta or epistemically rigorous. 

To be clear, practically I would say there is some correlation with what he is saying and spiritual growth. But it’s just a really watered down version of what spirituality can be. Possibly good for newbies, who would not be open to anything beyond this anyway.

I agree. 
 

I just think the word enlightenment is a little groundless 

[Thought Art]

@Leo Gura So, if I become a Buddha, I’m not enlightened?

Not that he was describing a Buddha. But, would you say if I become a Buddha I’m not enlightened?

[Leo Gura]

@Thought Art The problem is that there is no clear definition of what "become a Buddha" means.

How do you know what the Buddha was conscious of? People just make simple, naive assumptions about that.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Thought Art]

Yeah, I don’t know. I’m reading a book on the “heart of the Buddha’s teachings” 

Theres nothing there about being God, realizing Infinity, etc

It’s all about minimizing suffering, living in a sane peaceful, joyful way. Being mindful, etc. 
 

Obviously we can’t know the man. But, would you say the teachings are enlightenment? I’d say no. You can read 10 books on the heart of the Buddha’s teachings and none of that is God Realization. Is that what enlightenment is? 
 

There’s no clear definition of enlightenment 

no clear definition of being a buddha

wut r we talkin aboot

Because your taking enlightenment beyond this.

. 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

If Buddha was alive today you’d probably post one of your videos on your blog “see this? Bullshit” ?

[axiom]

Neither comprehension nor embodiment is useful for - or indicative of - enlightenment. 

Embodiment and comprehension relate to each other. They bring much satisfaction to the ego, but they are second order.

[Thought Art]

Semantics are an issue here and definitions 

Socratice where are you

[Kuba Powiertowski]

@Thought Art Whoa, you just discovered America, Mr. Columbus ... Yes, if you have to go around the roundabout 1000 times to understand that you are driving in a circle, each subsequent lap brings you closer to that. Relax, I'm actually writing this to myself

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Thought Art said:

Yeah, I don’t know. I’m reading a book on the “heart of the Buddha’s teachings” 

Theres nothing there about being God, realizing Infinity, etc

It’s all about minimizing suffering, living in a sane peaceful, joyful way. Being mindful, etc. 
 

 I'd say that enlightenment for the Buddhist mean to transcend the human completely. the same as zen, or non-duality. not distinguish between good or bad, between you and what is not you, between life and death. then the limitations disappear, the ego stops encapsulating you, and you realize what reality is. reality, being non-dual, can only be one, not created, therefore eternal, infinite. that is, god, and since you are, and there is only one, infinite, you are that. I don't see the difference with what Leo says

Edited October 31, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Thought Art]

@Breakingthewall The thing is, Leo is using different technologies (psychedelics) than most if not all Buddhist. So they have different reference experiences.