Why Nothing is not the best pointer to Reality.

[VeganAwake]

7 hours ago, Razard86 said:

^Quiet Tony Parsons. Who are you teaching?

Oh you know his communications!

Awesome bro!

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by VeganAwake

[Razard86]

31 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Oh you know his communications!

Awesome bro!

 

Lol a friend put me onto him. He definitely is rather interesting, but he isn't the endpoint. But he is definitely useful for people who want to awaken to NO SELF. But if you think Tony's message is the sticking point....then you have no clue what Infinity is. 

Most people are not going to break out of their dream state listening to him, even with a resonance to his talks. Even with the understanding of no free will etc, I can tell you from direct experience that even the concept of Free Will isn't even as simple as he states it. 

For example....every POV is equally GOD in its totality. You can raise your consciousness and realize that the entire universe is in synch with every movement that you make. That your movements in your human body isn't because of nerves....its because of Universal Will. You realize your will is universal will. You also realize that through the illusion you created in the dream free will exists because you hide from yourself the construction of the dream and how it functions. So its like taking a test that you created and have the answers but wiped your memory and now have to figure out what the answers are. 

Anyway I like Tony.... I believe he does good work in helping people get to the bottom. He is also the complete 360 degree opposite of Leo lol. There couldn't be two more different speakers on Spirituality than those two.

[axiom]

2 hours ago, Razard86 said:

But if you think Tony's message is the sticking point....then you have no clue what Infinity is. 

It’s sort of the other way around. In fact, “That which cannot be understood” is a good description of infinity.

Thinking you know what infinity is = believing you have collapsed infinity to a circumscribable - and therefore finite - form. This cannot ever be done.

Understanding and Being are made of exactly the same stuff, but they are at different vibrational levels. Sort of like water and ice. 

Or corn starch. It is free and fluid, but as soon as you stir it to investigate it, it solidifies and becomes inert.

Infinity will similarly collapse into finitude with any effort to circumscribe it. 

The point is not to keep going until we think we’ve understood it all. That would be like making your life’s mission to learn *all* of the digits of Pi.

Rather, at some point, we recognise the effort is futile. And that’s where the real work begins.

[Razard86]

4 hours ago, axiom said:

It’s sort of the other way around. In fact, “That which cannot be understood” is a good description of infinity.

Thinking you know what infinity is = believing you have collapsed infinity to a circumscribable - and therefore finite - form. This cannot ever be done.

Understanding and Being are made of exactly the same stuff, but they are at different vibrational levels. Sort of like water and ice. 

Or corn starch. It is free and fluid, but as soon as you stir it to investigate it, it solidifies and becomes inert.

Infinity will similarly collapse into finitude with any effort to circumscribe it. 

The point is not to keep going until we think we’ve understood it all. That would be like making your life’s mission to learn *all* of the digits of Pi.

Rather, at some point, we recognise the effort is futile. And that’s where the real work begins.

1. Naw... man you don't understand infinity.....by studying it....you awaken to it in it's totality and you recognize it by BEING it. Infinity is understood from BEING it. Again if you really think....that this is the endpoint....then this is all you will ever know.

2. At higher levels you get to actually be everything there ever was and ever will be. And don't tell me its part of the dream because EVERYTHING is the dream. Both the sense of a self and no self are both in the dream. Reality itself IS the dream. So there is no where to go, and nothing to do.

3. One of the highest realizations you get is there is a knowing that is beyond words or concepts. So yes...the different levels of awakening that exists give you those. Again Reality is a STORY that tells itself a STORY. It tells itself a story on every level, through every sensory experience imaginable. It can do this an infinite number of ways because it has no boundaries. 

4. Its like I create the greatest VR simulator ever, and you guys come in and tell everyone to use the first settings and never explore anything else. 

5. Also that last part you said....the effort is futile, and that's where the real work begins. 

According to Tony, he would disagree with you. He would say there is no real work to begin because that implies free will and that you just contradicted yourself because you said effort is futile so how can you then say real work. He would tell you that his meetings are energetic, but you have no control on what appears to happen. An Openness is needed to his "communication" but that its completely out of your control.

In my opinion he doesn't explain the Free Will conundrum well. Free Will is both an illusion and real at the same time. If I hide that you are being controlled, and give you the illusion of choice....then you have free will. If I reveal by dropping the veil that hides your lack of choice and reveal you are being controlled....then your free will is gone. Illusion and Real are ONE and the SAME. 

Its like going to a Magic Show and never understanding the tricks. You can CLAIM you know its fake but until you figure out how its done....its the same as being real. Illusion and Real are ONE and the SAME. 

[VeganAwake]

22 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Lol a friend put me onto him. He definitely is rather interesting, but he isn't the endpoint. But he is definitely useful for people who want to awaken to NO SELF. But if you think Tony's message is the sticking point....then you have no clue what Infinity is. 

Most people are not going to break out of their dream state listening to him, even with a resonance to his talks. Even with the understanding of no free will etc, I can tell you from direct experience that even the concept of Free Will isn't even as simple as he states it. 

For example....every POV is equally GOD in its totality. You can raise your consciousness and realize that the entire universe is in synch with every movement that you make. That your movements in your human body isn't because of nerves....its because of Universal Will. You realize your will is universal will. You also realize that through the illusion you created in the dream free will exists because you hide from yourself the construction of the dream and how it functions. So its like taking a test that you created and have the answers but wiped your memory and now have to figure out what the answers are. 

Anyway I like Tony.... I believe he does good work in helping people get to the bottom. He is also the complete 360 degree opposite of Leo lol. There couldn't be two more different speakers on Spirituality than those two.

I get what you mean...

Yeah & what's usually difficult to understand with Tony's communication is that it's a hopeless communication, it's not offering anything and it's not a teaching either.

Its pointing out that the very one that hopes and seeks and seeks and seeks is an illusion of self!

It's the end of seeking due to the recognition that the seeker isn't a real entity within the body-mind organism. 

I have a feeling you might like Andreas Mueller ?

[axiom]

15 hours ago, Razard86 said:

According to Tony, he would disagree with you. He would say there is no real work to begin because that implies free will and that you just contradicted yourself because you said effort is futile so how can you then say real work.

That part was tongue in cheek 

”The real work” is surrender.

[Razard86]

3 hours ago, axiom said:

That part was tongue in cheek 

”The real work” is surrender.

You know....its funny...in the beginning I found you an annoyance and now all I feel is love. Lol. Thank you for always disagreeing...no idea why I enjoy it now. But I was literally thinking where my boy axiom at? And there he is!!! 

I'm really starting to understand how people grow on you, in the beginning it can feel like resistance and then...you get so used to them you enjoy their prescience. Thank you for your responses on these forums. 

[axiom]

42 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

You know....its funny...in the beginning I found you an annoyance and now all I feel is love. Lol. Thank you for always disagreeing...no idea why I enjoy it now.

Likewise, reading your posts is like watching a kid opening presents at Christmas. It is genuinely endearing.

I disagree with you only to encourage you

[Razard86]

4 hours ago, axiom said:

Likewise, reading your posts is like being a kid opening presents at Christmas. It is genuinely endearing.

I disagree with you only to encourage you

Fixed that for you ^

 Keep the encouragement coming!!!

[Razard86]

10 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

I get what you mean...

Yeah & what's usually difficult to understand with Tony's communication is that it's a hopeless communication, it's not offering anything and it's not a teaching either.

Its pointing out that the very one that hopes and seeks and seeks and seeks is an illusion of self!

It's the end of seeking due to the recognition that the seeker isn't a real entity within the body-mind organism. 

I have a feeling you might like Andreas Mueller ?

^I'll check him out. I know Tony says coming to his meetings, gives a different energy resonance than watching his videos, so maybe if someone wants the veil to drop that could be their best bet. He explicitly states for people that its all about an "openness to the communication" which has nothing to do with the ME. LOL.

That man is the ME annihilator. I love it!!! And his laugh is infectious. He also made fun of Rupert Spira in one of his videos...lol. He mentioned there were 3 people who teach his style of messages that awoke from his messages. There is a guy named Kenneth Madden who awoke after coming to Tony's meetings about 10 years I think ago. Also there is an Asian guy who also awoke from his meetings. He mentioned there was one other person....I wonder if its this Andreas Mueller guy you are mentioning. 

But yeah I like Tony's laugh as he destroys all hope and meaning. My friend told me he reminds him of this DMT Elf from one of his trips.

[Inliytened1]

On 10/30/2022 at 6:16 AM, Someone here said:

One of the biggest obstacles in this work is "fear of going insane" or losing your mind. But that's the biggest trap. You never had a Mind to lose. You can't go nuts cuz in a sense all states are equal. 

Trying to keep yourself "sane" if you are doing this work correctly is doomed to fail because "sanity" is a distinction or a limitation that you are trying to maintain but ofcourse reality is groundless and unlimited. In other words insane. Not sane. Not insane. 

It's not that you have no mind your ARE Mind.  There is no where to go.  That Mind does not require finite thought- which is ago.   Becoming God will be omniscience. This IS Love - this IS Infinity.   We break it up into facets from a finite state of consciousness- but in an infinite state its One.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Inliytened1

[Razard86]

12 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

It's not that you have no mind your ARE Mind.  There is no where to go.  That Mind does not require finite thought- which is ago.   Becoming God will be omniscience. This IS Love - this IS Infinity.   We break it up into facets from a finite state of consciousness- but in an infinite state its One.

I'm sure what he wrote was a typo. I think he meant brain when he put you have no mind. 

[axiom]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

There is a guy named Kenneth Madden who awoke after coming to Tony's meetings about 10 years I think ago. Also there is an Asian guy who also awoke from his meetings. He mentioned there was one other person....I wonder if its this Andreas Mueller guy you are mentioning. 

Tony is referring to Jim Newman. 

Tony is actually a real grouch at times. Jim’s laugh is even more infectious, and he has a lot more patience.

I’ve been to one of Tony’s meetings and a few people walked out. They were visibly angry and upset that Tony claimed not to have any awareness. They said it was the most ridiculous thing they’d ever heard. it almost got a little heated.

On a Jim Newman retreat I had a very significant breakthrough. The final layer of the onion peeled away. 

My most significant breakthroughs ever were:

- 6 gram blindfolded psilocybin: Total bliss / terror / fucking unfathomable depths of agonising love God awakening, completely forgot I was a human being, felt like I had gone to another dimension for a million years. Coming back was dumbfounding. Utterly life changing.

- Vipassana retreat. On day 7 after 60+ hours of motionless meditation, I realised I could sit through any amount of physical pain - even pure agony - and remain totally blissed out, not needing to adjust my position in any way, because it became suddenly startlingly obvious that I was  not the body. I was smiling from ear to ear after this one. 

- Jim Newman retreat. The complete disappearance of the subject. Can’t even get it back if I tried, as there is no me left to try. Emotionally this was nothing compared to either of the above, but it was in a strange way the most profound. The end of seeking any meaning or purpose in anything. AMA ;-)

Edited November 3, 2022 by axiom

[Razard86]

47 minutes ago, axiom said:

Tony is referring to Jim Newman. 

Tony is actually a real grouch at times. Jim’s laugh is even more infectious, and he has a lot more patience.

I’ve been to one of Tony’s meetings and a few people walked out. They were visibly angry and upset that Tony claimed not to have any awareness. They said it was the most ridiculous thing they’d ever heard. it almost got a little heated.

On a Jim Newman retreat I had a very significant breakthrough. The final layer of the onion peeled away. 

My most significant breakthroughs ever were:

- 6 gram blindfolded psilocybin: Total bliss / terror / fucking unfathomable depths of agonising love God awakening, completely forgot I was a human being, felt like I had gone to another dimension for a million years. Coming back was dumbfounding. Utterly life changing.

- Vipassana retreat. On day 7 after 60+ hours of motionless meditation, I realised I could sit through any amount of physical pain - even pure agony - and remain totally blissed out, not needing to adjust my position in any way, because it became suddenly startlingly obvious that I was  not the body. I was smiling from ear to ear after this one. 

- Jim Newman retreat. The complete disappearance of the subject. Can’t even get it back if I tried, as there is no me left to try. Emotionally this was nothing compared to either of the above, but it was in a strange way the most profound. The end of seeking any meaning or purpose in anything. AMA ;-)

Thanks for the share man!! All of the above is SAVAGE!!! It was also a pleasure to read!!

[Someone here]

22 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

It's not that you have no mind your ARE Mind.  There is no where to go.  That Mind does not require finite thought- which is ago.   Becoming God will be omniscience. This IS Love - this IS Infinity.   We break it up into facets from a finite state of consciousness- but in an infinite state its One.

If you see a person, out in a cafe or wherever, one day and you feel really attracted to them and you spend the rest of the day imagining and fantasizing about who they are, is this person all in your mind?

Your fantasies about the person are in your mind, your stories, your assumptions are in your mind. But the person itself isn’t. The person exists, out there somewhere, independently from your fantasies. Do you agree /disagree?  I'm trying to understand your worldview .whether is subjective idealism or objective realism. 

22 hours ago, Razard86 said:

I'm sure what he wrote was a typo. I think he meant brain when he put you have no mind. 

No I actually meant "mind " not "brain". Obviously you've got a brain inside your skull.  But can you please point to your "mind "? It's just a concept. Zero actuality.

[Razard86]

On 11/4/2022 at 9:24 AM, Someone here said:

If you see a person, out in a cafe or wherever, one day and you feel really attracted to them and you spend the rest of the day imagining and fantasizing about who they are, is this person all in your mind?

Your fantasies about the person are in your mind, your stories, your assumptions are in your mind. But the person itself isn’t. The person exists, out there somewhere, independently from your fantasies. Do you agree /disagree?  I'm trying to understand your worldview .whether is subjective idealism or objective realism. 

No I actually meant "mind " not "brain". Obviously you've got a brain inside your skull.  But can you please point to your "mind "? It's just a concept. Zero actuality.

Mind is sensory perception. All sensory perception is mind. Also Someone here its not about subjective idealism or objective realism....forget these categories. All you should be focused on...is what is actually true. 

When they say you are dreaming...you are dreaming. I like to use the VR Simulator model personally, you are an infinite VR Simulator that runs itself, currently this VR Simulator is identifying as a human. This VR Simulator from their POV is the only REAL thing....all sensory perceptions are illusion in their POV. So your body, your memories, all sensory perceptions are illusions that you created to fool your POV and give you a life. Whether those "quote" on "quote" others have their own POV you will never know unless you have Leo's Infinity of Gods Awakening.

Why? Because no matter what substances you take....it will always show you that you are alone. For example...on certain states you will hear the thoughts of others, in certain states...others will move in synch with you, in certain states...everything will collapse and you will become Infinite...and will be ALL ALONE. 

So outside of Leo's Infinity of Gods Awakening...your awakenings will always show...that there is only ONE BEING, that ONE BEING...is YOU.

This is why...all arguments and criticisms are illusion and delusion...there is only ONE BEING. So who is arguing with who? If someone is murdered...who murdered who? Life is just a silly identity game. There is no purpose, or meaning, no levels to attain, absolutely and completely meaningless.

Only an EGO creates meaning. Its why that sucker is so hard to let go cause meaning is FUN!!!

Edited November 10, 2022 by Razard86