Stuck & Hopeless - Need Perspective Of Others

[Echoes]

Hey!

First I want to say that I wasn't  sure if this would be better in the career area or in this one. So please feel free to change if you think it doesn't belong here.

I really need a different perspective on the situation I currently find myself in. I never spoke with anybody about this, and it  leads to me being alone with a never ending cycle of the same thoughts/feelings of desperation and  hopelessness, without any new input and ideas. 

The situation:
I am 25 years old and in university. The thing and part of the problem is: it's not your regular university, but an online university - only 2 days per semester I have to actually drive to a nearby university and write the  exams there. The degree I would get there is exaxtly the same as I would get from a "regular" university, so that's not the problem. 
The reason I chose this university is because of the subject I decided to study: Psychology. In my country (Germany) you need very good grades to study this major because it's so popular that the universities haven't enough room for all the applicants. So you can either wait about 6 years, go to a private university where you spend a ton of money, or choose this one (because as an online university, they don't have the room problem).

You would guess that with 25 I should me long finished or at least nearing the end. But the opposite is true; Im at the beginning and didn't  accomplish very much so far. I only begun to study with 23, had a difficult past where I dropped out of school, worked at a few jobs and then returned to get my university entrance certificate. 

I still live at home with my mom, and never really worked for real besides a few small jobs. I also never had a girlfriend. I live in total isolation with a fucked up sleep schedule and no routine in my day whatsoever. I see all my friends and normal people in my age and younger than me who have a normal, regular life with daily duties and a flurent social life. The only thing I am doing all day is reading books and watching videos about non-duality/spirituality; meditating and taking psychedelic drugs once in a while. (maybe 1-2times per month). I am broke as shit and living in a small city where absolutely nothing is going on. 

I thought about switching my major and moving to a bigger town. But the problem is that I can't imagine anything more interesting for me than psychology. I considered studying philosophy but keeping my psychology major to study both. I am not sure though if this is a smart decision: Philosophy is not known for it's good career outlook and I'm not even sure if the highly analytical aspects would suit me. I think I'm just using this fantasy as an easy cop-out of this stuckness to reach a "normal" life finally. Maybe the best option is to just quit university entirely and search for work? But no qualification is existent.  Also, im already 25 years old and have not much more time to waste with wrong decisions. 
Since I learned of spirituality and personal development, I definetely changed to the better at many aspects like self esteem/acceptance/happiness etc. Before that I was very depressed, social anxious and caught up even more in victim thinking.

But altough I have learned to accept my past and even this situation to some extent, I still can't bear it any longer to live at home. I want a normal life. My life just feels WRONG, and every cell in me screams to change it. While I am meditating and doing spiritual stuff I feel good; but it's very obvious at this point for me that Im also doing it as an escape from reality. I'm grateful that this situation brought me to personal developement and spirituality, but now it's time to break out of here. The problem is that I'm completely frozen and stuck. I am trapped in a repetitive cycle where everyday is exactly the same. I don't see any good possibilities to make a rational change. I definitely can't stay in this situation any longer and wait till I graduate. I need to move out from home, but I don't know how to do it sensible. Has any of you an idea what I could do? Am I overlooking something? I feel so behind in life. Every person in my age has more experienced and accomplished. I feel  that im too old and that there is no way I can ever catch up and live normally. On the one hand I know  that all thoughts and personal drama is illusion, and that I should accept the moment. But then I'm so behind in everything and the guilt and fear feels so real that I'm not yet able transcend it completely. The urge to change is too strong, and i'm motivated to take action if only knew what my next best step is.

So, what do you guys think? how would you evaluate this circumstances?  I don't know what to do anymore and if anybody can help me with this, but I am grateful for every new perspective/insight/idea you can give.

 

Edited February 21, 2017 by Echoes

[Ex Astris Scientia]

Hey Echoes. 

Don't know for sure if I can be of any help, but I recognized some similarities to my own situation when I was in my early twenties. Have been diagnosed with depression back then, the main reason being, well, loneliness, lack of friends and especially having no girlfriend (this was really a big deal, so I kinda feel your pain...). Also still lived at home with my mother at that time and worked some boring jobs, not knowing which direction to take in my life. 

Spent two months in hospital when depression got unbearable. There, talking to some therapists and other patients who were worse off really shifted things into perspective, gave me a 'Can Do' attitude. To keep this momentum I thought it best to finally have a flat of my own, to not get stuck in my old surroundings and routines again after leaving the clinic! Took the first flat I found in the newspapers and spent the first night out of hospital there, in an empty room on a mattress, just to make an imaginary break with the 'life before'. I was unemployed at that time, living on welfare, but at least I got the feeling that I was taking things into my own hands and things were not stagnating. In the following months I did some internships, some paid jobs, then the next year applied to an apprenticeship in Hamburg and got accepted, then moved to the big city and had some of the best years of my life! 

I didn't know anybody there, but looked up some names of shops, clubs and persons that catered to the same hobbies or interests of mine, and actually found some friends there. :-)

 

 

 

[jse]

@Echoes , you appear stuck in your life, surrounded by less than helpful circumstances.  You need to get out of that situation soon, before it becomes chronic.  I have a friend who was in a similar situation at age 20-25, and his solution was to drop out of Uni and play WoW day & night.  Fast-forward 20 years, he still lives with his mom, and is still stuck playing WoW online.

My humble advice is this:

Be brave - you have little to lose.  Put your studies on hold, find a job and save like your life depends on it - after 3-6 months of this, put on a backpack and travel for as long as you can.  Find yourself in your travels, come back home, and then  you'll be in a much better place to choose your life-changing path.

[Echoes]

@Ex Astris Scientia  I can use everything that gives me a little perspective or impression of how other people dealt with similar situations. I think the feeling of "taking things into my own hands" is very important, because right now every day is the same and I keep thinking that tomorrow comes the great idea that will change everything in a miraculous way. I know that this idea will never come, but I also don't know where I can start taking action. 

@jse This is my biggest worry. My father had similarities with your friend, and I often have the anxiety to also develop in this direction. I really hope I can still turn my life around, I just can't let this become reality. Everyday I tell myself I should figure out now exactly what I need to do and then just do it, but of course I never figure out what I need to do. The days keep passing away and everyday I feel like I am a day closer to the example of your friend or of my father. 

I never thought about traveling. Do you really think it is a smart decision? I'm already behind in everything and with traveling I would lose even more time. What if I don't figure it all out by travelling? Am I thinking too much in terms of "At this age you should be at this stage in your life"? But normal people already have their degree and started their career, they can afford to do things like travelling or keep trying different things without having to worry that much of a wrong choice. Me on the other hand wasted so much time already. altough I don't think that someone really ever regretted a good travelling experience.

Thanks for your replies!

[Toby]

You could move out any time, get welfare and do the Heilpraktiker (2 years) or Heilpraktiker P (1 year) while you do that. You could explore lot's of different things to work with. If you want to work with clients it is a lot better because your degree is of no use for that anyway afaik  (Hagen?).

[Echoes]

@Toby Yes, Hagen. There are universities where it is possible to get accepted to the masters programm in clinical psychology even though Hagen's bachelor doesn't include it. Isn't the Heilpraktiker not really accepted here and has the reputation of a charlatan? I don't know anybody who goes to someone instead of a "real" doctor. But I never looked in to that topic, so I don't know. I also never investigated in the topic of welfare, it was never really an option for me, because I always thought that you can't get it when you are in education of any kind. Will they not send me to all sorts of seminars and this stuff that basically is completely useless? I don't know if there is time to explore a lot of things when they send me to the next best workplace

Edited February 23, 2017 by Echoes

[Toby]

Actually, a lot of alternative treatment is done by heilpraktikers. Actually also many good things that a psychotherapist (a doctor or psychologist with at least additional two years) usually doesn't do. The whole spiritual approaches, bodywork, maybe accupunture and so on. And you can actually make some good money with it. Of course some people think that they do bad work, but there are a lot that actually do good work. Of course a university degree has a better reputation (even though Hagen has the worst reputation in Germany I know of) but you were complaining about your situation that your studies will take a long time to finish, that you are living with you parents and so on. I mean, you could also move out and live on Bafoeg or something like this (and finish Hagen), but you would have to pay 1/2 of it back. And going to get some "Hartz4" is ok. You can explain them what your situation is. The worst thing would be that you end up applying for 450€-jobs or do like 3-5 hours a day social work, e.g. with children or something like that. I mean, you just have to look at the options. If you want the university degree, then get it.

[jse]

@Echoes , let me first explain what I mean by traveling:  it is not the destination (tourism), but the actual journey that matters.  It may be something as simple as taking a month off to walk the Camino de Santiago pilgrimage, or backpacking through non-tourist places such as the Indian or Southeast Asia backpacker trails.

The most important aspect of true traveling, is the adventures you'll share with kindred travelers you'll meet along the way.  With their (usually unknowing) help, you will begin to re-discover your true self, a special soul who has no place in living that shadow of a life you have now.  It may not be comfortable to backpack on a budget, but being out of your comfort zone will take you through an accelerated journey of personal growth.

And... it's never too late to go on your pilgrimage.  Whether you are 18 or 80, you will find something uniquely special in your travels.  See it as a way forward in your personal development, as opposed to an intermission or delay in your life.

Heck, were it not for some current major responsibilities in my life, I would drop everything this moment and put on my backpack, then head out on my bike for the intercontinental road trip of a lifetime.  And it'd be great to meet up with some of my forum friends along the way.

Edited February 23, 2017 by jse
added links

[Flare]

Well let's get things clear here, even if it might sound a little harsh. 

I'm from Germany too (even used to life in Hamburg, what's going on here?) thinking about studying psychology/philosophy (loved both fields, since I was fifth-teen). I had the option to go to Berlin on a (beautiful) private university, which was kinda impossible duo to the price or do the same as you - studying online. Here is the point: psychology paying sucks. Opening your own office is going hand in hand with a huge risk. In addition to this there are a lot of people wanting to do clinical psychology, not mentioning the one who chose the path to study medicine in the first place. You might be screwed to get the job you want in the fields of psychology with your online bachelor in the first place. + Consider this, even if you it works. Do you think that with your experience you have right now you would be good psychologist? Or if you want anything clinical, do you consider yourself to beat any contenders in the economy, with that many limiting beliefs? This being said, since you mentioned you are (kinda) passionate about it, and if I did my mathematics right you will finish your bachelor degree in 1/1,5 year(s), throwing away your bachelor won't make anything better. It actually would make things worse. Since the space you're coming from is not very independent, entrepreneurship in any kind doesn't seem like an variable option. Since that your degree (sadly) matters. So I would recommend you to finish your degree and use the time you got while doing so to set up your life. If you wanna add another study/bachelor/Master, do so. A bachelor in psychology won't hurt you in any way. You even might get a better set up, for whatever you specifically choose to do with your life, which is in fact great.

Wooho, many negative points, I'm sorry if I aimed to high. Let's go for constructive things: You need experience. Self development without action is a fraud. There is a law of use, information you suck up without acting on it will destroy you and drive you nuts. Having spiritual guidance can help you, but consider this: If you don't want to life live like Eckhart Tolle, you shouldn't put all you focus on spiritual work. It is very important and it's great to have, but can you imagine Eckhart acing life without his crowd of followers around him? Put him in a "normal" environment, he won't be that comfortable. But it was his decision to follow his path. Is this your path too? If not, spiritually alone won't solve anything. 

So get rid of your limiting believes (I know I put some up before, but you got to be realistic in some cases). As you described your body is screaming to do something different. Good. You got tons of drive there. Don't dwell on it, act on it. You're using meditation etc. to numb yourself from your drive. What a bad impact meditation can have in some cases. Consider this: Yes you are behind. But that's where your drive comes from. You yourself are trying to overcompensate it. Stop oppressing it. You are blessed. Many of us that doesn't face this kind of frustration never overcompensate, since that you got the ability to get more understanding, more skills, to reach higher goals, than most of us can. Maybe try to get in a state, where you didn't suppress anything and read your text again. You answered most of your questions by yourself, but after answering you just out sentence after sentence why you are afraid. That's totally fine, but you still should face what you want. Whatever it really is. You can do this. What you exactly to might even be secondary here, even though I would suggest to change your environment, it's more the space you're coming from.

Last but not least, I remembered you wrote something about that you are not that analytical/don't wanna study philosophy. I gotta think about this question then: Why do you love psychology that much? Most jobs, most theories (or at least the early one) are highly analytical. How does this fit together? I think there lies a huge potential to answer some of your questions.

Best wishes!

Ps: I really like the idea form @jse, suggesting you to travel! Your brain might restructure some things and your subconsciousness would be able to some new view points. 

Edited February 23, 2017 by Flare

[Echoes]

 @Toby  @jse  @Flare Thank you all for your input! you really helped me to consider new options and expanded my way of thinking about this. I'm still not 100% sure what I will do, and what would really be the best move here, but you gave me valuable new ideas. 

 

[h inandout]

I'm so glad I'm reading your post during my own panic cycle!  Maybe I can offer some tidbits:

First, I realized I need to pay way more attention to physical and emotional comfort.  When you're in that dark place of no return, I'm sure you have time for a baby panda video.

Second, I think it's so funny that you think you've wasted you life by putting off Uni.  I went right out of high school and was "totally on track", but students who started when they were older seemed way more successful.

Third, you are already quite awesome, and I am sure some awkward attempts at stepping into roles where you are leading and creating can only lead to you knowing more about what you want and don't want.  Just don't stay miserable.

[Bodhi123]

There is a saying, "Desperate times call for desperate measures"... which means RADICAL ACTION!

In my opinion, now is not the time for practicality.

I back the advice given by @jse

Be brave... Take a leap of faith... Allow your life to change

Edited February 28, 2017 by Bodhi123

[Toby]

Question: where do you live? Is there maybe a spiritual teacher or meditation group that could bring you a different perspective? I mean, I don't see any problems in your situation and it is very easy: if you don't like living with your parents, move out. If you don't like your city, move to another city, if you don't like studying psychology change it. But be careful if you really want something else or just not satisfied with what you have. I mean, no situation is ideal and perfect. But if you can change something, then just do it. No need to travel to get this insight.

[Elisabeth]

I haven't read all the answers, I just want to send some understanding your way, and just a few points. 

- staying home with no contact with people is making me depressed within two days and it's even more true whe studying. Make a point to schedule activities - at least a 30min getting out of the house daily and some people to meet every few days. 

- if you really need to get out of your parents home, you will probably have to get a job

- another option might be using your current "student" status and get into the erasmus program - you could go to some university where you actually have to visit lectures

On 21. 2. 2017 at 3:11 AM, Echoes said:

I feel so behind in life. Every person in my age has more experienced and accomplished. I feel  that im too old and that there is no way I can ever catch up and live normally.

Oh, this sentiment is so detrimental. I get so it. I'm sorry you feel this - try to reframe. At the very least, drop the "every". That's not true. I've got  a friend who started studies at 23 and now she's finished and although almost 30 she lives with her partner and has a fairly "normal" life. Once you start to work it feels much more like you have caught up, no matter your age. I have a bunch of other friends who dropped out of college. They are there with "nothing" in their hands - just like you. 

The even better reframe (the one I'm doing ) could be "Ok, I've wasted years. But now I understand the problems, I know my intentions, and through personal development I know the tools to reach them effectively. I can catch up and in 5-10 years I can be even much further then most people!" Isn't it true more or less? Doesn't it feel great? 

And, well, I guess the even better solution would be to stop comparing and just work from the place you're at. But that is kind of hard to do

[Bodhi123]

@Echoes I agree that @Flare gave solid advice.

The last thing I will say is just know that you have the POWER to change your life. Please let this truth sink into you.

If you want to travel then travel. If you want to complete your degree then further your education. Just know that you are the molder and shaper of your life.

[Echoes]

@Elisabeth  I agree that I have to finally integrate some healthy routines in my life again. Always have this unhealthy "all or nothing" mindset, so when I miss 1-2 days of exercising for example, I tend to drop it completely for a few weeks/months. And then the next cycle begins. It's good to hear from other people who have dealt with or are in "similar" situations   We humans always tend to compare only with faster/richer/more successful and forget that there are many people in this world who are in the same state as us or have it much worse. The reframing is really the key I think. There always comes the feeling of lying to myself or sugarcoating this situation; that somehow I don't deserve to not feel bad about it. But I can't change it anyway, so it doesn't make sense to dwell in guilt.

@Bodhi123  I think I know this on a theoretical level, but on the practical side I still feel powerless somehow, that I have no control whatsoever

Thank you both for your answers!  

[Toby]

You have germany's most famous yoga-center close to you (Bad-Meinberg). Couldn't you do anything there that would be valuable to your path?

[Echoes]

@Toby Thanks! I didn't know that we have such a big spiritual center in this region. at first glance it looks a little like a wellness center. But I saw that they even have a spiritual/psychological counseling for a very cheap price. They seem to have interesting programs, have you any experience with this center?

[Toby]

No, I don't have any experience with them but they do good work as far as I've heard. If I would live nearby I would certainly go there from time to time and check it out for myself. I cannot really tell if it is really great or a bit dogmatic without having been there. For overall balance it could be very beneficial. For waking up - I don't know, maybe Advaita or Zen are more efficient (even if they also do courses on Advaita / Jnani Yoga there). Some things they offer it would be clear that I would go there. Maybe a weekend here and there or more. I also would check out mantra singing / concerts with Janin Devi. Maybe you could even live there or attend some courses cheaply or for free, if you work there. I guess there is a teacher that worked and lived in a center of theirs for years (Narada: http://vedanta-yoga.de/narada/), maybe you could tell him your situation and ask if and what in that center could be beneficial for you.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Toby

[Toby]

Oh, I saw that also the "Parimal" is relatively near you. They might offer good things as well. If I lived near there I would check out the retreats of Muni and Samarpan for sure. I would even say that you would be stupid not to check out Muni from 08.03. - 12.03. (if you can afford it: http://www.muni-satsang.de/pag/retreat_vor_frueling17.htm), he is an amazing teacher, enlightened beyond anything you could imagine.