How does being intelligent/smart relate to being conscious?

[ShardMare]

I was just thinking about how there are so smart people at my age and what actually causes that? Like at school and also i've read an article how many people go to abroad from my country into really famous colleges. F.e. its weird to me how people can learn engineering or medicine around my age. Memorize, understand these stuff.

These students are not necessarily conscious. I know consciousness and being smart like this example doesnt correlate to each other but what do you think?

Lot of part depends on genetics i guess.

 

 

[VioletFlame]

It definitely may depend on their genetics but it can also depend on various situational factors. Believe it or not, the more trauma a young person experiences, the more likely their concentration skills & comprehension could diminish. It is not a matter of intelligence but simply a matter of a part of the brain shutting down due to the severity of the trauma a child has experienced. Trauma messes with our hippocampus and our memory and our capacity to retain information. Although I must assure you that neuroplasticity is legit, healing is very possible, and it is the sweetest revenge. 

Trauma disrupts many children's ability to focus or excel in school yet they are probably the most spiritually conscious individuals out there, even more spiritually conscious than their adult supervisors.  

Edited October 26, 2022 by VioletFlame

[Leo Gura]

Yes, it's genetics and also good upbringing, early education.

But don't be fooled, those people aren't actually intelligent. They will grow up to be brainwashed tools.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Mysterious Stranger]

@Leo Gura How do you explain Intelligence to an orange stage person? 

[VioletFlame]

 

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, it's genetics and also good upbringing, early education.

Yes, the better the upbringing a person has, the more likely they are to focus more effectively in school. But they probably have less life experience and less depth-oriented understanding of themselves and of others. The less shit a person goes through, and the more "easygoing" and convenient life is for them, the less interested they'll be in self-inquiry and less interested in understanding people and themselves. It's like people have to have a specific reason, and sadly many times a catastrophic reason, to incentivize them towards personal growth.

Edited October 26, 2022 by VioletFlame

[Leo Gura]

It's also a personality thing. You need a personality for learning and academics. Not all personalities are suited to it.

[Gesundheit2]

46 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

tools.

Nice improvement. Keep going 

One letter per day, and eventually you'll get truth 

[Leo Gura]

Ghouls.

I can do three letters.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Aaron p]

3 hours ago, ShardMare said:

I was just thinking about how there are so smart people at my age and what actually causes that? Like at school and also i've read an article how many people go to abroad from my country into really famous colleges. F.e. its weird to me how people can learn engineering or medicine around my age. Memorize, understand these stuff.

These students are not necessarily conscious. I know consciousness and being smart like this example doesnt correlate to each other but what do you think?

Lot of part depends on genetics i guess.

 

 

@ShardMare the old knowledge Vs consciousness topic of contemplation.

At the absolute level knowledge and consciousness are the same thing because everything is consciousness from direct experience. Everything is just experience and experience is just undefined, non-physical, magic (consciousness)

But at the regular human level differentiating knowledge and consciousness is a step that needs to be investigated and [I feel] is best articulated in a thought picture.

Imagine an underground pipe system with water flowing through the pipes. The pipes represent the mind, the water represents knowledge. Some people devote themselves to developing the quality of the water that flows through their pipes...some are less delusional that others (becoming an expert in accurately and articulately recalling every word of the Bible is very professional, but it's very professional in recalling something that turns out to be [in reality] very incorrect...an example of delusional water purification).

But instead of becoming someone who is informed, some people recognise the better choice of becoming transformed. While purifying the water of knowledge is necessarily and highly advantageous, there is tremendous advantages with turning your attention to the structure and layout of the pipes themselves...how they connect to eachother. Someone who focuses on rearranging the structure of the pipe work itself is [in this metaphor] equivalent to someone who focuses on rearranging the structure of their mind (focusing on what they are as opposed to what they know). Being self aware, or "conscious" as opposed to informed with information (which is still very necessary in the plane of human growth, fulfilment and success). But becoming self aware, and aware of how your mind actually systematically works allows for streamlined flow of water. You can augment the structure of your self and mind in creative ways to give yourself big advantages. Conscious and wisdom are closely connected (both relating to direct experience) therefore it could be said that this topic could be called "knowledge Vs wisdom" and since philosophy is the love of wisdom...I >think< I'm correct in saying that philosophy is the art of being aware of your self, your mind and the reality of what you are...not just what you know.

Some advantages are:

- being "overall purpose" oriented.

- understanding that doing the right thing is better than doing the thing right.

- becoming a transformed individual faster. 

- transformed>informed 

- being aware of structural traps and pitfalls of the mind.

- dynamic adaptability 

[tessus]

7 minutes ago, Aaron p said:

@ShardMare the old knowledge Vs consciousness topic of contemplation.

At the absolute level knowledge and consciousness are the same thing because everything is consciousness from direct experience. Everything is just experience and experience is just undefined, non-physical, magic (consciousness)

But at the regular human level differentiating knowledge and consciousness is a step that needs to be investigated and [I feel] is best articulated in a thought picture.

Imagine an underground pipe system with water flowing through the pipes. The pipes represent the mind, the water represents knowledge. Some people devote themselves to developing the quality of the water that flows through their pipes...some are less delusional that others (becoming an expert in accurately and articulately recalling every word of the Bible is very professional, but it's very professional in recalling something that turns out to be [in reality] very incorrect...an example of delusional water purification).

But instead of becoming someone who is informed, some people recognise the better choice of becoming transformed. While purifying the water of knowledge is necessarily and highly advantageous, there is tremendous advantages with turning your attention to the structure and layout of the pipes themselves...how they connect to eachother. Someone who focuses on rearranging the structure of the pipe work itself is [in this metaphor] equivalent to someone who focuses on rearranging the structure of their mind (focusing on what they are as opposed to what they know). Being self aware, or "conscious" as opposed to informed with information (which is still very necessary in the plane of human growth, fulfilment and success). But becoming self aware, and aware of how your mind actually systematically works allows for streamlined flow of water. You can augment the structure of your self and mind in creative ways to give yourself big advantages. Conscious and wisdom are closely connected (both relating to direct experience) therefore it could be said that this topic could be called "knowledge Vs wisdom" and since philosophy is the love of wisdom...I >think< I'm correct in saying that philosophy is the art of being aware of your self, your mind and the reality of what you are...not just what you know.

Some advantages are:

- being "overall purpose" oriented.

- understanding that doing the right thing is better than doing the thing right.

- becoming a transformed individual faster. 

- transformed>informed 

- being aware of structural traps and pitfalls of the mind.

- dynamic adaptability 

A good analogy is like a clean vector curve.. Can you use fewer words?

3 hours ago, ShardMare said:

I was just thinking about how there are so smart people at my age and what actually causes that? Like at school and also i've read an article how many people go to abroad from my country into really famous colleges. F.e. its weird to me how people can learn engineering or medicine around my age. Memorize, understand these stuff.

These students are not necessarily conscious. I know consciousness and being smart like this example doesnt correlate to each other but what do you think?

Lot of part depends on genetics i guess.

Learning how to learn is more important than learning a topic

[Aaron p]

3 hours ago, tessus said:

A good analogy is like a clean vector curve.. Can you use fewer words?

 

@tessus sure.

Improving the knowledge that runs through your mind=good

Becoming conscious of the actual structure of the mind [through which all knowledge flows] = better

Because: knowledge only maketh proud, while love (consciousness of the reality of the structure of the mind itself) edifies/strengthens/fulfills. 1 Corinthians 8:1

It's a matter of reality... Looking at and changing the structure of the mind itself, rather than just changing the knowledge that flows through the mind. 

Also, complex truths sometimes require complex analogies

[tessus]

Thank you 

1 hour ago, Aaron p said:

Also, complex truths sometimes require complex analogies

 

I disagree... I don't think complexity is the vehicle of truth...

Isn't it paradoxical how more words require less effort?

The more words, the duller the knife. 

[tessus]

Just now, tessus said:

Thank you 

 

I disagree... I don't think complexity is the vehicle of truth...

Isn't it paradoxical how more words require less effort?

The more words, the duller the knife. 

I'm interested in hearing if you disagree 

[taslimitless]

6 hours ago, tessus said:

I'm interested in hearing if you disagree 

Leo has stated before that the reason his videos are often an hour, two, or sometimes even three hours long is because not everything can be explained simply. Sometimes more complex, nuanced ideas require more words to articulate and build/create understanding. 

[Aaron p]

theres also this paradox between complexity and simplicity being deeply interwoven together. submitting to the realisation that everything is very complex, strangely makes everything start to seem a lot more simple. "everything is complex" is a very simple insight...and the insight "everything is simple" can have some deeply complex dynamics within it. ultimately, everything is simply complex

Edited October 27, 2022 by Aaron p

[tessus]

15 hours ago, taslimitless said:

Leo has stated before that the reason his videos are often an hour, two, or sometimes even three hours long is because not everything can be explained simply. Sometimes more complex, nuanced ideas require more words to articulate and build/create understanding. 

A curve, like an analogy with fewer points, is cleaner

Mathematical expressions are simplified to their simplest form so they can be helpful to others 

8 hours ago, Aaron p said:

theres also this paradox between complexity and simplicity being deeply interwoven together. submitting to the realisation that everything is very complex, strangely makes everything start to seem a lot more simple. "everything is complex" is a very simple insight...and the insight "everything is simple" can have some deeply complex dynamics within it. ultimately, everything is simply complex

Complexity-breaking complexity is a rational fallacy.

What is of most value can not be given, let's not try to give it harder

A riddle gives the most because it gives the least