Females have intrinsic value, men don't?

[integral]

Compatibility is of the highest value. Secure attachment styles are also valuable. Count the inner little things. 

There are 4 quadrants to asses value.

This topic and Tate over focuses on the individual exterior objective/material form/body and a collective exterior inter-objective social environment.

If you ignore or marginalize any of these four dimensions, you get a distorted perspective of your inner and outer world, your relationships, and your social environment.

Edited October 25, 2022 by integral

[Loba]

I don't think whatever you're concerned about really matters all that much in a greater picture perspective.  There are less women on here that ask for help, and more men.  Of course men want to help as well, many times it's just in their nature to want to share their perspective with a woman.  Also, plenty of guys get help here, too.  In fact, I've seen more men get understanding and support for men's problems than women do.  In a lot of ways, it can be quite draining to see posts all the time like "washed out 25-year-old women" or "I don't date 30 year olds", which as a 34 year old, I don't date guys in their early-mid 20's either.  I like guys in their 40's usually.  But having to hear this all the time, "only hot chicks" "only virgins" "must be this way or that way", it... honestly, reminds me of what it was like to be in my 20's and be a beautiful woman.  It did NOTHING for me.  No one looked INTO me, they looked AT me.  How is that getting what I need?  I just ended up with men who couldn't see me for the person that I was, they assumed my shyness was bitchiness, they used my body and left, all sorts of things can happen to women because most men, I hate to say it, they do not give a fuck.

Now for me, this forum presents an active problem.  I am trying to come to terms with, and to forgive the abusive actions done to me by men in my previous years so that I can move on and not have that colour my world view, but when I see threads like this, of which there are many, it is not just OP here - then it reminds me that the mentality that men take when it comes to women is a huge fucking problem.  Like, holy shit.  I had no idea you guys were so heartless, when they say men view women as meat and nothing more - I am more inclined to believe it at this point.  It is really hard to forget and forgive, to learn to trust, to move on and just feel comfortable being myself when I see these things every day.  So how is it that women are getting a better deal when using this forum?  Because they get more comments in their threads?  That doesn't make up for this crap we have to read every day, not even by a long shot.  Now I am writing this to bring to light some points, and this isn't entirely an OP-thing, this is a forum-thing... or maybe just "life".

I don't want to be bitter and upset about my past.  It sucks.  But I also want men to understand that women don't have it easy, even the pretty ones.  Beauty doesn't get you love, it just increases your chances of getting laid.  And as for over 25-year olds getting trauma . no, this usually happens early in life.  You're not going to have less of a chance finding that by sticking to young women.  Although if you are a young guy, I get it, you want a young girl.  Just like I don't want a guy that makes me feel like I'm robbing the cradle, you know?  Do I care about getting older?  Not having the same value?  No... only when other people feel the need to point out that there is something wrong with me because I am older, or because disease/mental illness took away some superficial features that really never landed me in the right situation in the first place.  Why would I miss that?  Why would I value that?

I'm conflicted.  On the one hand, people should be allowed to do what they want.  And it's part of a greater picture that I can't see just yet.  Everything is as it should be, even idiots making rude remarks about women.  I guess... I can get over it, because in some sense, it sort of sucks more for you and I'll tell you why...

How a woman looks, her age... none of that matters in the greater scheme of things.  All that matters, after you die and shed this meat suit is the merit of your soul.  I say this as someone who is chronically ill, trying to find some peace with it, and I feel I am getting somewhere.  I don't really give two fucks about people who don't believe in souls, or entities, or many of the things that have been seen and spoken about for as long as humans could communicate with one another - in my lived experience - this is a thing.  So... your soul is like an immovable stone within flowing water.  Bodies come, bodies go.  They change.  Nothing will stop that.  The whole point of life is to build up your heart and soul, to shine from within.  When your body drops, that shine that you have created, that's what's left.  And you don't get a lot of time to do this.  You think - oh, I'm young, I have all the time in the world - no way - anything can happen.  I thought I had all the time in the world, too, until my health failed around 26-27.  Time is an illusion.

All you have to prepare to be decent is Now.  It's such a human thing to place the value on someone when it comes to their status in life or how they look.  Or to even be worried about these things.  This just puts you back down into the trenches of human illusion.  People will do anything to avoid their own death, to avoid looking at the real existential problems that they need to face and then they're left scrambling to do it at the last minute. I was blessed with time to know I will die youngish, but enough - a few years - if this infection clears up maybe 5-10, of really getting into what is important.  What do I want for myself in the next life?  When this body sluffs away, what is going to show underneath all of that?  There's... something else just beyond the eye, or maybe within it?  I don't know... but I do know this, I traded my value from one thing into something else.  I didn't lose it from a spiritual perspective.  I am "harvestable" and ready to go somewhere else, if I continue to grow in merit and Love.  I've received countless offers and initiations from things from beyond, trying to lead me.  And I trust their leadership more than a human being.  They have the full picture, they can look down from up on high into the layers of who I am and where I could go from here.

It is an odd feeling to be valueless in the eyes of human beings, and yet considered worthy and ready for better places on the other side, to the point where they just won't stop.  I traded something skin-deep for something soul-deep...

I'm learning as I write this post here.  I guess, instead of feeling angry at men for having these beliefs, I should feel sad.  Jesus took on Mary, who was considered worthless in the eyes of her peers and rose her to become something great.  I believe that the spirits, that those on the other side, are similar.  They want you half-dead, broken and ready to move on.  They want to awaken you, for you to see the light inside of yourself.  The name of God's game is to shine light on the smallest, most hidden things.  It's what, if humans knew the nature of God, they would be doing this.  For every homeless person, every mentally ill person, everyone who isn't normally seen in that light.  And to find that, and build from that, that is quite an extraordinary thing.  So... I guess I should feel pity.  I should feel bad.  Because the farther I get with this, I see how connected we all are.  We never get away from our wrong actions.  They always come back on us in some form.  So you men here could have these views, and stay entrenched in this paradigm, only to have to then spend another lifetime as a woman caught in a sex trafficking ring, or born into a culture that doesn't value you based on your gender.

I should count myself lucky, that the divine ever even bothered to reach out to me.  I don't see it happening to many of you, not very often... I wonder why...?  Maybe all y'alls value rests in your meat suits?  Very sad.  

 

[StarStruck]

@Ulax if you watched the videos you would get my point 

[Clabber Girl]

If a woman can generate a lot of value by developing herself, this value is not in being a leader or successful in business endeavors or being a visionary... What else would a woman's value be linked to? Say its 80% sexuality/reproduction value... what is that 20% if she develops herself to the max ?

[Gesundheit2]

4 hours ago, Clabber Girl said:

If a woman can generate a lot of value by developing herself, this value is not in being a leader or successful in business endeavors or being a visionary... What else would a woman's value be linked to? Say its 80% sexuality/reproduction value... what is that 20% if she develops herself to the max ?

I would say it's mostly social value that is related to EQ, empathy, and bigger picture understanding. Things like social circle, knowing how to play the women's game, co-operation and being a team-player, connections, diplomacy, support, nurturing, and selflessness. This is as opposed to being rebellious, a "Karen", entitled, negative, argumentative, selfish, etc.

In my imagination, an ideal woman is positive and pleasant to be around at all times. She does not only know how to understand and manage her own emotions, but also her partner's and family's too, and basically anyone that comes in contact with her. She can contain everyone and everything in her big warm heart. Her gentle touch is enough to heal the deepest wounds, if you will. She is wise and knowledgeable and knows how to talk, and when to be silent. She is mature, diplomatic, and a problem solver. She is tactful, calibrated, and does not offend anyone. She is an excellent story-teller, and she knows how to recontextualize any event into a more positive, meaningful, and empowering frame. She is able to provide appropriate support for anyone in and under all circumstances. She is able to nudge people in the right direction without being bossy or too involved in the technical details of what they should be doing. Subtle, but powerful. Nobody would give up a woman like that even if her beauty faded away, because she still holds a lot of value, both evidenced and potential. Even if luck fails her somehow and something bad happens to her out of the blue, her connections and the services that she can provide will help her find a way out of basically anything.

Though, that does not necessarily invalidate or contradict a successful business-oriented woman. It's just that business can take her away from her family and make her unavailable.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Clabber Girl said:

If a woman can generate a lot of value by developing herself, this value is not in being a leader or successful in business endeavors or being a visionary... What else would a woman's value be linked to? Say its 80% sexuality/reproduction value... what is that 20% if she develops herself to the max ?

Women can be good leaders. Or just good at her career, art, work.

I'm met some girls who are sexy and also entreprenuers and have a lot going for them. That's a high value girl. Pretty rare to find that combo.

It's not that girls cannot be good leaders, it's that it's not really required of them. Men have less leeway in that regard.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Vrubel]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm met some girls who are sexy and also entreprenuers and have a lot going for them. That's a high value girl. Pretty rare to find that combo.

I dated and lost a girl who worked full-time at a prestigious financial institution besides her full-time university study. She was an exceptionally pretty and feminine eastern European girl. She was fully aware of her high value. (especially in my country where girls are generally big and more masculine she stood out alright). I had two dates with her months apart because she is so busy. On the second date, I escalated way too quickly and freaked her out. She actually told me about how she was very disappointed in herself for being so wrong about me. (I did not take this personally ofc and I gave her the space to vent her frustration in an honest way.) She also said she was feeling very sensual (before it went wrong), which is good I guess(:

looking back and analyzing what went wrong, I think her exceptional feminine energy enhanced my masculine energy such that I basically acted way too rashly. I learned that I have no problem being sexual and making girls feel hypersensitive. Now I have to be more like a gentleman. No PUA douchebag bullshit like "negative peaks". If a girl is in a hypersensitive state these will come effortlessly. I also set a (loose) rule for myself not to escalate at the beginning of the date (first 30 to 45 min). And always begin with just holding hands. In many ways, a dinner date is good because there is no way to physically escalate and it's just about building comfort to make it easier later on to escalate. 

[StarStruck]

@Vrubel I had a similar experience. She gave a lot of leeway but her feminine energy boosted my testosterone and I also became insecure. I don’t see it as a failure but more as an important lesson. Better to make mistakes than avoid mistakes. I still feel bad about it when I think back but it made me stronger as a person. 

[Karmadhi]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not that girls cannot be good leaders, it's that it's not really required of them. Men have less leeway in that regard.

So in what regard do guys have more leeway? You are basically saying that guys need to work harder than girls in general. So females have it easier?

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Vrubel said:

Now I have to be more like a gentleman. No PUA douchebag bullshit like "negative peaks".

What PUAs don't teach you is this:

The highest quality women will have high self-esteem and self-respect. If you disrespect them, they will leave you pretty quickly.

Most PUAs target girls with low respect and low esteem because all they care about is quick sex.

But once you get in the habit of behaving that way, you will lose all the best and most conscious and intelligent women. Thereby creating a self-fulfilling effect where all the girls you date are shallow, dumb, unconscious, dysfunctional, and low-value.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

So in what regard do guys have more leeway? You are basically saying that guys need to work harder than girls in general. So females have it easier?

In a lot of ways.

Guys have more leeway in sleeping around.

Guys have more leeway in learning game and growing themselves.

Guys have a much longer shelf-life.

Girls are constantly worrying about their youth, their looks, their weight.

Girls are constantly worrying about getting overpowered or raped.

Girls are emotional all the time, cannot control themselves.

Girls do not take any initiative in dating or mating. It's just all an accident for them. As a guy you can engineer the love of your life.

The beauty of being a responsible guy is that you literally create whatever life situation you want. You become like God.

And finally, you become God

The self-mastery becomes its own reward.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Tyler Robinson]

 

38 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

In a lot of ways.

Guys have more leeway in sleeping around.

Guys have more leeway in learning game and growing themselves.

Guys have a much longer shelf-life.

Girls are constantly worrying about their youth, their looks, their weight.

Girls are constantly worrying about getting overpowered or raped.

Girls are emotional all the time, cannot control themselves.

Girls do not take any initiative in dating or mating. It's just all an accident for them. As a guy you can engineer the love of your life.

The beauty of being a responsible guy is that you literally create whatever life situation you want. You become like God.

And finally, you become God

The self-mastery becomes its own reward.

You forgot the biggest male privilege. Girls don't make as much money and mostly lack the skills for it. 

We aren't born with your kind of genius brains and stamina. 

 

[Vrubel]

57 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The highest quality women will have high self-esteem and self-respect. If you disrespect them, they will leave you pretty quickly.

Yes, this is exactly what happened. 

57 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

you will lose all the best and most conscious and intelligent women.

Yes, these are the kind of girls I seem to attract. I am now dating a very intelligent and "wholesome" Iranian girl. She is not a solid 10 like that eastern European girl I lost. She was truly exceptional, in fact, she was such a high achiever and all-around perfect it made her unattractive

Though I learned my lesson and will take it slowly and respectfully with the new girl. Also because she has a more traditional background (she shit-tests way more than a western girl) even though she is very modern and "westernized".

Edited October 26, 2022 by Vrubel

[Leo Gura]

Respect dat ass or you ain't gettin' any 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Karmadhi]

37 minutes ago, Cat_eyes said:

you make it sound like the worst thing ever is to be a woman. 
why can’t men lift us up rather than put us down? 

god this forum makes me feel depressed.

You already get lifted up by the bunch of guys giving you attention 24/7 so no complaints   

[Karmadhi]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Guys have more leeway in sleeping around

Feminism has changed that, especially for young girls. Not the case anymore in developed countries.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Guys have more leeway in learning game and growing themselves

True but basically they need to put an extra 1000 hours or more to get what girls get without any effort. I get your point though.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Guys have a much longer shelf-life

Very true for the most part, however do girls really want to marry a 45 year old guy? What about 50?

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Girls are constantly worrying about their youth, their looks, their weight.

Mostly true except weight. It is an issue for both genders. Youth i agree with you.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Girls are constantly worrying about getting overpowered or raped

Very true.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Girls are emotional all the time, cannot control themselves

Very true, however there is no proof that it does decrease the quality of life. Maybe being more emotional makes u happier than being a stoic robot like a lot of guys are. This is neither a good or bad thing.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Girls do not take any initiative in dating or mating. It's just all an accident for them.

They dont have to so why would they? You arent out hunting for deer for example. You take no initiave in getting your own food, you just pick the food that is given in front of you in a store. So now the ancient humans are more lucky than you that they get to kill whatever food they want to eat? Not having to worry about dating and just picking one of the dozens options in front of you is a priviledge not a curse.

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The beauty of being a responsible guy is that you literally create whatever life situation you want.

Very true for the most part. I like it for most domains of life except dating haha.

[StarStruck]

50 minutes ago, Cat_eyes said:

 

you make it sound like the worst thing ever is to be a woman. 
why can’t men lift us up rather than put us down? 

god this forum makes me feel depressed.

Women create life. That is something we males can’t do. I respect that. 

Edited October 26, 2022 by StarStruck

[StarStruck]

5 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Because they are insecure.

Many of them don't know how to generate confidence from within. They are so disconnected from the source, so they relay on the false sense of confidence that they get from puting women down.

All men want to become confident and successful because those are the traits that are rewarded by females. If you females weren’t that picky we men wouldn’t have to work on our confidence, get on that grind and shit. 

[something_else]

1 hour ago, Cat_eyes said:

 

you make it sound like the worst thing ever is to be a woman. 
why can’t men lift us up rather than put us down? 

god this forum makes me feel depressed.

Yea, men do this a lot and it's a big problem. I don't think that's what Leo was doing here though.

He was replying to a comment which suggested that being a women was an easy life, by listing all of the ways in which women generally have it harder in life than men. He wasn't trying to put women down I don't think

It was a bit harshly worded in some places I suppose but I don't think he meant it as a put down

 

[Clabber Girl]

@Cat_eyes I am a woman on this forum and if you are a woman posting about dating men then you WILL get lots of responses on the forum. Dont look at it as being depressing being a woman. I think its about trade offs... and finding your power/strengths as a woman. I would never trade being a woman for being a man.

 

@Leo Gura Those women with max value indeed are very rare... I see most women wanting just to be attractive, get married/kids and thats all they aspire to, they don't really need to be great humans its not required in our society. Not to say they are bad people but theres not a lot of deep work going into their lives. Myself i do want to get married and have kids but I also want to be as great a woman I can be as well as mastering my art in this life.

Phyllis Diller was an old/first woman stand up comedian. Had lots of kids in early 20s. Started a comedy career in her 30s... for some reason I look up to her b/c she seemed as if she wanted kids but that she also didnt want her life to revolve around family forever... Kids move away eventually. Its important for women to also develop a life of their own even though most of their value to society is purely procreation...