A Summary of CSJoseph's "What is Extraverted Thinking"

[JuliusCaesar]

Greetings all,

 

This post is a summary of CSJoseph's "What is Extraverted Thinking Video", for whatever reason it cannot be linked, but if you search it in YT it'll be one of the first options.

 

The symbol for Extraverted Thinking is Te. Extraverted Thinking is essentially rational thinking. So, individuals with high Te reason using rationale. Others have higher Ti and those individuals think logically. A Rational Thinker is one who makes decisions based on statistics, gathering data, fact patterns within data, using majority rule in their reasoning, gathering references from many sources. The ISTJ is a great example of this, they tend to endeavor to gain as many references as possible, such that they become like a Walking Library of Alexandria. 

 

A Rational thinker is one who has Te as one of their 4 top cognitive functions. Half of the sixteen types qualify. 1. ISTJ, 2. ESTJ, 3. INTJ, 4. ENTJ, 5. ENFP, 6. INFP, 7. ESFP, and 8. ISFP. Some of these have higher rationale than others, however, with respect to thinking these types tend to prefer using rationale over logic. Let us imagine there's a table with ten thoughts sitting around it, each thought rules either truth or false on a specific issue. Now let's imagine we have ten of these tables all ruling on the same issue. Each one renders a verdict of either true or false, and majority rules.

 

The rational thinker believes whatever the group perceives to be true is in fact true. This is why it's called Extraverted not Introverted Thinking, because the Te user is sourcing thoughts from outside of themself. As opposed to a Ti user doing their own thinking. Te users struggle with making true/false judgments on their own so they outsource their thinking to others they feel are smarter than they. Therefore, they try to surround themselves with intelligent individuals, so that they absorb the smart thoughts of those around them. If you ever hear someone saying something like "I just lost braincells listening to that" then there's a good chance they have high Te, as otherwise they'd be a Ti user in their unconscious. 

 

Te thinkers are highly susceptible to groupthink, not good/bad groupthink, that's in the domain of Extraverted Feeling, not Thinking. Te users want to know what the group think to be true. However, it is possible for the Te user to be in a small group with whom they disagree because they're sourcing their thought either from a larger group, or from what they feel is a better source Ie someone with better credentials or something of that nature.

 

Te users value credentials and titles highly. Introverted Thinkers do not care, because from their perspective, what's true is true, how you feel about it is irrelevant. Thusly, it doesn't matter what credential you have, and it doesn't matter if you're a good or bad person etc etc. For instance, 2+2=4, it doesn't matter if Adolf Hitler or Mother Theresa says it, it's still true, the fact that Hitler said it and whatever negative feelings you may have about him will not change that. The bottom line is, Te users care very much about the source, but Ti users tend not to care as much, if at all. 

 

Extraverted Thinkers need elegant titles and credentials, because these things actually help them to improve their very real intelligence. If you told Tai Lopez(ENFP) never to buy a book again. You might as well kill him, he cannot function without them. ENFP's need books, they need to read constantly. CSJ feels everyone should read constantly, but Te users value it especially. 

 

In social situations, how others think of a Te user tends to dictate how they feel about themselves. It's easy to tear them down, just make them look bad in a public setting and they'll hate you forever. Because everyone around them thinks they're a failure or a bad person or something, the Te user thinks the same thoughts and consequently feels very bad about themself. They assume those people will continue to think less of them, and they can't handle losing face like this. Sometimes people get incredibly sensitive about this, and they'll just leave the group, or they'll fight back with additional reference points and evidence to defend themselves.

 

On the more positive end, they love being in the spotlight, they love to feel the status. Te is all about status, whereas Fe is about recognition but more on that latter. The more they can elevate themselves and their titles and credentials, the better they feel. And when they encounter people with inferior credentials, like if I went to Harvard and you didn't, as a Te user I might say your opinion is automatically beneath mine because you didn't go to Harvard.

 

CSJ learned all of this on the street and is confident that any Jungian Psychologist you throw at him he can take to task. However, Te users don't see it that way, because CSJ doesn't have flashy letters next to his name, that means his opinion in their eyes isn't as valid. Because for Te users it's all about having as many references as possible, as much data, as many elegant titles, as many credentials as possible etc. All because the Extraverted Thinker wants to feel valid.

 

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by JuliusCaesar

[integral]

This is Te embodied by orange. If we intersected the two models there is Te and how it looks from every spiral stage. Te at green no longer values credentials for example.

A lot of this sounds like the stereotype for a ISTJ. The green+ INTJ couldn’t be less impressed my a PDH. 

He is conflating peoples values with functions creating stereotypes of each mbti type as part of his internal model. 

13 hours ago, JuliusCaesar said:

CSJ learned all of this on the street and is confident that any Jungian Psychologist you throw at him he can take to task.

@thisintegrated Standard ENTP behavior, reminds me of someone. 

Edited October 23, 2022 by integral

[Dryas]

13 hours ago, JuliusCaesar said:

The rational thinker believes whatever the group perceives to be true is in fact true

No. This is not Te. Csj's explanations for the functions are not that good a lot of the time. If this was true Te users would automatically be conformist but we know this isn't always the case. It would be confusing content for structure, as Micheal Pierce likes to say (a way better typology channel than Csj.)

Te is logic of systems that don't involve language. Like fixing a car engine or door knob (it could be something more abstract.)

This is why Te users are concerned with efficiency - they're asking the question "What is the optimal number of steps required to complete x task". I imagine Te users will care more about the source than Ti users but not to the extent that csj describes and not for the same reasons.

13 hours ago, JuliusCaesar said:

Te is all about status

13 hours ago, JuliusCaesar said:

In social situations, how others think of a Te user tends to dictate how they feel about themselves

????

I know Te users and they don't care about status. This is just nonsense.

Quote

All because the Extraverted Thinker wants to feel valid

No, no, no. Stop.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Dryas

[CultivateLove]

Ah C.S. Joseph, that's a name I haven't heard in a while.

I advice you take everything he says with a grain of salt, he's the perfect example of the saying by Abraham Maslow "If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail". In his case it's not a hammer, but the cognitive functions.

[thisintegrated]

8 hours ago, integral said:

This is Te embodied by orange. If we intersected the two models there is Te and how it looks from every spiral stage. Te at green no longer values credentials for example.

A lot of this sounds like the stereotype for a ISTJ. The green+ INTJ couldn’t be less impressed my a PDH. 

He is conflating peoples values with functions creating stereotypes of each mbti type as part of his internal model. 

@thisintegrated Standard ENTP behavior, reminds me of someone. 

wtf

ENTPs aren't Te users, and CSJoseph isn't an ENTP.

 

8 hours ago, integral said:

Te at green no longer values credentials for example.

Incorrect.  Who told you this?

[JuliusCaesar]

10 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

ENTPs aren't Te users,

Correct.

 

10 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

CSJoseph isn't an ENTP.

What makes you think that?

 

 

[thisintegrated]

Just now, JuliusCaesar said:

What makes you think that?

1. I'm an ENTP.

2. I've watched many of his videos.  He's far too authoritarian, affiliative, reliant on others' ideas, rigid in his thinking, way too Fi, Te-like mannerisms.

3. He misunderstands several functions, like he considers Ne to be "what others want", and "other people's future".

4. He's a religious AF creationist.  ENTPs can't be that low IQ.

[Carl-Richard]

9 hours ago, integral said:

This is Te embodied by orange. If we intersected the two models there is Te and how it looks from every spiral stage. Te at green no longer values credentials for example.

A lot of this sounds like the stereotype for a ISTJ. The green+ INTJ couldn’t be less impressed my a PDH. 

He is conflating peoples values with functions creating stereotypes of each mbti type as part of his internal model. 

@thisintegrated Standard ENTP behavior, reminds me of someone. 

Oh no, not the MBTI-SD crossover ?

[integral]

4 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

wtf

ENTPs aren't Te users, and CSJoseph isn't an ENTP.

Incorrect.  Who told you this?

Didnt say he was a Te user check bellow. 

13 hours ago, integral said:

On 10/22/2022 at 5:06 PM, JuliusCaesar said:

CSJ learned all of this on the street and is confident that any Jungian Psychologist you throw at him he can take to task.

@thisintegrated Standard ENTP behavior, reminds me of someone. 

But ye im pretty sure hes ENTP just at blue/orange. 

4 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Oh no, not the MBTI-SD crossover ?

LMAOOO is it really that bad? ? you might have an allergy to models, im sure you'll tell me why it cant be cured. 

[Carl-Richard]

25 minutes ago, integral said:

LMAOOO is it really that bad? ? you might have an allergy to models, im sure you'll tell me why it cant be cured. 

It's up there with auras and tarot reading. I'm trying to not say the a-word 

I just don't vibe with it. I can do it from time to time, but it's like jerking off: it's not very meaningful and it gets stale pretty quickly.

The thing about these kind of grand narrative theories is that they're so easy to apply to anything and everything, so you'll easily get stuck in a rut repeating the same patterns over and over again. The reason for that is because they're very surface level, and the path of least resistance is to get complacent and stay at that level, and then you'll not be able to go into detail and generate fresh and authentic insights from the depths of your mind.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[thisintegrated]

14 minutes ago, integral said:

Didnt say he was a Te user check bellow. 

..you were referring to CSJoseph's behavior as "Te", which you then said it reminds you of me.

 

14 minutes ago, integral said:

But ye im pretty sure hes ENTP just at blue/orange. 

"im pretty sure" isn't a good argument.  And you're contradicting yourself as you called him a Te user:

14 hours ago, integral said:

This is Te embodied by orange

 

 

24 minutes ago, integral said:

But ye im pretty sure hes ENTP just at blue/orange. 

He's Blue-Orange, but ENTP is a bold claim.

 

14 minutes ago, integral said:

LMAOOO is it really that bad? ? you might have an allergy to models, im sure you'll tell me why it cant be cured. 

To think @Leo Gura let you be a mod????

I think this is his revenge against me for suggesting he's an INTJ.

[integral]

44 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

It's up there with auras and tarot reading. I'm trying to not say the a-word 

I just don't vibe with it. I can do it from time to time, but it's like jerking off: it gets stale pretty quickly.

LOL your going to love this, the book I just read mix's 9 models together (Primary Fantasy, lines of development, spiral dynamics, spiritual, sexual, and anima/animus development, states, personality types, and the perspectives of the four quadrants) into one identifier called The Kosmic Address! Ill create a post on this behemoth soon.  

Edited October 24, 2022 by integral

[integral]

21 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

"im pretty sure" isn't a good argument.  And you're contradicting yourself as you called him a Te user:

He's Blue-Orange, but ENTP is a bold claim.

i know and the best part is i just us Ni-Fi to figure out peoples types, no logic or thinking involved. 

21 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

..you were referring to CSJoseph's behavior as "Te", which you then said it reminds you of me.

Naaaa man got to reread what I wrote, It was a critique of the thread "A Summary of CSJoseph's "What is Extraverted Thinking".

Then he said something about how CSJoseph's will debate anyone anywhere with just raw street knowledge and it felt like something you would do. lol So i linked you right under the quote. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by integral

[integral]

20 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

To think @Leo Gura let you be a mod????

I think this is his revenge against me for suggesting he's an INTJ.

You cant tell me this whole story isn't hilarious 

Edited October 24, 2022 by integral

[integral]

6 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

14 hours ago, integral said:

Te at green no longer values credentials

Incorrect.  Who told you this?

Ye its incomplete, i was trying to make the point that functions like Te don't hold values. Values and functions are separate. Functions are tools that serve the persons values. This confusion is the root of all MBTI stereotyping. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by integral

[thisintegrated]

19 minutes ago, integral said:

It was a critique of the thread "A Summary of CSJoseph's "What is Extraverted Thinking".

I didn't read that wall of text so it's possible.

 

 

Edit:  I'm confused, wtf is this thread?

Quote

This post is a summary of CSJoseph's "What is Extraverted Thinking Video", for whatever reason it cannot be linked, but if you search it in YT it'll be one of the first options.

Who wrote the summary?  Was it Caesar?  Did Caesar copy and paste it from ..a youtube video?!?  Did he write the wall of text himself, like a Te user ..and end up writing about how dumb other Te users are?!?!?!

wtf is is this thread?!?!?!?!?

Edited October 24, 2022 by thisintegrated

[Carl-Richard]

@integral @thisintegrated

Here is my MBTI insight for the day: if Ti is logic, then Fi is wisdom. Ti can logically prove why they came to a conclusion, and Fi cannot, but logic is limited and prone to self-deception. Fi is too, but it learns through experience. Blindly trusting logic is not wise and may even be irrational. Rationality is logic + wisdom.

[JuliusCaesar]

6 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

2. I've watched many of his videos.  He's far too authoritarian, affiliative, reliant on others' ideas, rigid in his thinking, way too Fi, Te-like mannerisms.

If you have watched "many" of his videos. Then I assume you're aware of the four sides of the mind? If he is an ENTP, then his INTJ shadow and ISFJ Superego have all the capabilities you've mentioned. Furthermore, you seem to have all of these qualities yourself at least to some degree.

 

6 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

1. I'm an ENTP.

Why do you think that?

 

6 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

4. He's a religious AF creationist.  ENTPs can't be that low IQ.

What? lol. Creationists would cringe listening to him. I fail to understand what makes you think this.

 

6 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

3. He misunderstands several functions, like he considers Ne to be "what others want", and "other people's future".

What in your understanding is Extraverted Intuition?

 

30 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Who wrote the summary?  Was it Caesar?  Did Caesar copy and paste it from ..a youtube video?!?  Did he write the wall of text himself, like a Te user ..and end up writing about how dumb other Te users are?!?!?!

You obviously haven't actually watched his video. Otherwise, it would be apparent that my original post was just a summary of it. Which makes me doubt your claim that you have watched "many" of his videos. Calling into question the notion that you understand anything he claims fairly well at all.

 

Also, where did I claim Te users are dumb? I just said in my summary that CSJ said that Te users want to feel valid. Which seems to be consistent with your own understanding as you've before mentioned the Te-Fi axis.

 

2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Fi is too, but it learns through experience.

Si would be direct experience under CSJ's definitions, and Se awareness of others' experiences collectively in the third person. So Ti also learns through experience because it thinks in terms of true/false about those experiences. Fi does the same in the good/bad domain. That would seem to include useful/not useful as well, since after all what is utilitarianism but another moral philosophy?

 

 

[Carl-Richard]

14 minutes ago, JuliusCaesar said:

Si would be direct experience under CSJ's definitions, and Se awareness of others' experiences collectively in the third person. So Ti also learns through experience because it thinks in terms of true/false about those experiences. Fi does the same in the good/bad domain. That would seem to include useful/not useful as well, since after all what is utilitarianism but another moral philosophy?

All I'm saying is that you update your logically unjustified values (Fi) based on experience. You update many things based on experience. It's not exclusive to Fi. Si is basically just when you access your episodic memory.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[thisintegrated]

23 minutes ago, JuliusCaesar said:

What? lol. Creationists would cringe listening to him. I fail to understand what makes you think this.

WHAT?!?!?!  He's literally openly a creationist.  He talks about jesus and shit in most of his videos and openly ridicules and rejects all ideas of evolution.

 

23 minutes ago, JuliusCaesar said:

If you have watched "many" of his videos. Then I assume you're aware of the four sides of the mind? If he is an ENTP, then his INTJ shadow and ISFJ Superego have all the capabilities you've mentioned. Furthermore, you seem to have all of these qualities yourself at least to some degree.

23 minutes ago, JuliusCaesar said:

Why do you think that?

1. Uhm, I'm kinda the MBTI consultant on this forum?  Of course I'll know my own MBTI.

2. Yes I'm aware of the 4 sides of the mind.  I'm an ENTP with an INTJ cognitive focus, which should make me an expert at analysing CSJoseph as he claims to be exactly this. 

 

23 minutes ago, JuliusCaesar said:

What in your understanding is Extraverted Intuition?

Basically.. Ni/Ne = abstraction + future focus.  The differences are:

Reduction vs expansion

Surviving vs thriving

The one vs the many

THE outcome vs potential outcomes

THE future vs potential futures

THE use case vs the use cases

 

23 minutes ago, JuliusCaesar said:

You obviously haven't actually watched his video. Otherwise, it would be apparent that my original post was just a summary of it. Which makes me doubt your claim that you have watched "many" of his videos. Calling into question the notion that you understand anything he claims fairly well at all.

Of course I haven't.  Why would I listen to CSJoseph?

 

Quote

Also, where did I claim Te users are dumb? I just said in my summary that CSJ said that Te users want to feel valid. Which seems to be consistent with your own understanding as you've before mentioned the Te-Fi axis.

I exaggerate sometimes for fun/clarity, and like I said I didn't know whose words those were.  I couldn't believe that you watched his video and then transcribed it for him for free.

 

23 minutes ago, JuliusCaesar said:

Si would be direct experience under CSJ's definitions, and Se awareness of others' experiences collectively in the third person

Actually he's completely wrong on this.  I used to believe this definition of his but it's just objectively wrong.

What type values "experience" more than any other type?  What type do you picture as the "surfer dude"?  ESTP.  Yet they're Se users.  Se might include CS's definition, but on its own it's completely wrong.

Se and Si are both about experience, but Se is just experience with an outward focus.

Edited October 24, 2022 by thisintegrated