A Critique Of Actualized.org And Leo Gura

[OBEler]

@StarStruck Yeah you can use already existing Dogma. 

Or you can throw this dogma away and explore new terraint. Not everything is structured and known from the beginning. It is a process. Otherwise you could just follow old spiritual systems and paths, which are structured from the beginning. But they are dogmatic and limited, mostly written for people hundrets of years ago or a culture which you are not part of anymore. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by OBEler

[Danioover9000]

@OBEler

26 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@StarStruck Yeah you can use already existing Dogma. 

Or you can throw this dogma away and explore new terraint. Not everything is structured and known from the beginning. It is a process. Otherwise you could just follow old spiritual systems and paths, which are structured from the beginning. But they are dogmatic and limited, mostly written for people hundrets of years ago or a culture which you are not part of anymore. 

   True, you could follow older spiritual traditions and systems and their designed paths over time, based on the 10,000s of years of that path working. Although I don't know what you meant with existing dogma and the spiritual traditions being dogmatic, do you mean when they refer to each other, when you ask a master/student of Buddhism about Judaism and the Kabbalah and vice versa? If you meant it that way, I don't think that level of close mindedness and dogma is unhealthy on the surface. They are largely stage blue traditions, with their cultural baggage, that wish to preserve their way of investigating into their reality and other spiritual experiences, so the notion of a spiritual tradition and its esoteric branch mixing with another is alien and of course guarded against for good reason.

   *Terrain and *hundreds.

[Danioover9000]

@jimwell

5 hours ago, jimwell said:

 Why being malicious?

Nothing to be upset about. Many members here imitate Leo, in words and actions.

But it never seriously crossed their minds they are just digging a deeper hole for themselves.

The differences between Leo and his followers are that Leo already has millions or hundreds of thousands in his bank account and has never experienced any form of mental illness or any serious form of trauma, while his followers are being inflicted with various forms of mental illnesses, trauma, and are having financial problems. Many also lack social skills or have never had a girlfriend their entire lives.

It's ok for Leo to shoot for the stars. It's foolish for his followers to try to do the same thing because for them, it's just spiritual bypassing. Leo's work is NOT for the majority of the population. That's the truth, whether acknowledged or not. 

   Some of the forum users, not all users mind you, have mental illnesses, mental disorders, mental traumas, financial difficulties, social and relationship difficulties, fitness and health issues.  

   Is that how much Leo really has? 100,000 to 1,000,000s of dollars? Or is it 10,000 to 100,000s of dollars?

[Leo Gura]

I find it funny when people come here to complain that this is such a cult when like 50% of people here disagree with me constantly on things.

This place is like a herd of cats.

If it was a cult my life would be a lot easier. People have so many different opinions on here that it's a pain just to keep things tidy. In a democracy, people are constantly fighting with each other over worldviews. Which you see lots of here. So much so that I am forced to ban extremists just to keep some order.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Leo Gura

[LordFall]

@Leo Gura Do you enjoy debating endlessly with people that won't ever get your points? I feel like it'd be easier just to make a cult with a small following of people you handpick. I admire the calling, it's truly selfless I don't think I could teach people. I get irritated by illogicality too much. 

[Loba]

53 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This place is like a herd of cats.

 

[StarStruck]

19 hours ago, OBEler said:

@StarStruck Yeah you can use already existing Dogma. 

Or you can throw this dogma away and explore new terraint. Not everything is structured and known from the beginning. It is a process. Otherwise you could just follow old spiritual systems and paths, which are structured from the beginning. But they are dogmatic and limited, mostly written for people hundrets of years ago or a culture which you are not part of anymore. 

how does the Kabbalah limit Leo's teaching?

[Thewritersunion]

Just a short message for those on the forum: Free Will is unlimited. That applies to you. Me. Everyone. Understand that. Grasp it. Apply it. What Leo teaches is high quality, but at the end of the day all you have is your stream of awareness. Focus your craft and life wisely fellas. 

Edited October 29, 2022 by Thewritersunion

[2ndComing]

Leos just lost in leftism, until he reads the bible again specifically the New Testament/Proverbs/Psalms/Genesis and Ecclesiastes, he'll just be rehashing his Eastern spirituality work. I don't know why he stopped lifting either, he needs to get a hair transplant, start lifting again, get married and have some kids instead of doing drugs and jerking off in bathtubs to porn saying he's God jerking off to himself.

[Epikur]

Compulsory Meditation before posting would solve 80 percent of bad posting but it would hurt business.

[Aaron p]

Lol you guys are wrong, only the most enlightened badass could rock such a beard. 

In all seriousness though, you have no idea the depth and accuracy of Leos teachings. It's like fucking... Shockingly accurate. Leo is the real deal. The power, holy shit. 

Edited October 29, 2022 by Aaron p

[Breakingthewall]

solid and worked criticism. many valid and real points. but I have many doubts about many things. first thing, the word "teacher" . For me Leo is not a teacher, he is a guy who delves into reality and explains his findings. These hints can be useful for you on your way. I guess if you take the course he's talking about, he'll be a teacher, but he's not for now.

second, traditional spirituality. I have the feeling that absolutely no one frees himself from the trap of the ego through any school of traditional spirituality. this may be wrong, but I can't help but think so. As you say, the goal of spirituality is liberation, not knowledge, since you cannot know infinity. but maybe if you can understand it. one thing is to cover and another to understand its mechanics. more and more it seems to me that without understanding there is no liberation, and without psychedelics there is no understanding. psychedelics are essential to be able to delve into the structure of reality, to understand it and thus stop being trapped in the trap of the ego. For liberation there must be understanding, and in this Leo is the pioneer. no one else tries to understand or explain what they have understood.

lastly, his unloving attitude. It seems that he is a rather lonely guy, not at all gregarious by nature, who despises everything that is belonging to a group, feeling accepted, etc. and that is very noticeable when interacting with him. It seems that he has the typical superiority complex of a smart nerd who did not feel accepted in childhood for other kids less smart than him. and that shows, it makes him a bit poisonous in interaction with people, the dumbs. but hey, that's his problem, no one is perfect. And i think it's an advantage. It keeps him far of the sectary temptation. if what we want is to free ourselves, his work is of enormous help. That's enough

And 4, the environment in the forum. What do you expect? A group of truly awakened people? Not today. Maybe one day.

Edited October 30, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[newbee]

Your critique I think is in sync with a blog post I just read from a woman who had a spontaneous awakening.

It's an issue that many men (but also women, though more so men) have on this path to enlightenment and it is a good thing to address it I feel, because it's true. 

I'll copy/paste some paragraphs from her article. I'm sure it'll sound familiar  :

"Online forums and Facebook groups dedicated to endless debate about enlightenment, non-duality, advaita-vedanta, emptiness and more, are largely populated by men. And it’s men who are the most active participants in what often amounts to breast beating to prove who has the right answer or the most enlightened understanding."

She further points out that a lot of these are 'stuck in the head' and she noticed two kinds of 'heady-awakenings':  

"The first is where someone has understood the concept of “no self” and then gone on to live their life as if this cognitive grasp equals true realization. This idea-based version of awakening is most common among online, male-dominated chat groups about enlightenment. (Yes, there are women there too…I’m just saying, it’s mostly guys).

The second is the more rare case of folks who have been catapulted into the emptiness and get stuck there. Some call it Zen Sickness. It looks like apathy and indifference to any real engagement in reality. These sorts of men do show up in chat rooms online, but mostly to correct everyone by pointing out that “Nothing matters, nothing is real, there is no-one here, and so stop debating already.”

I observed a lot of this type of behavior on this forum as well.  Too much arrogance and not enough compassion, combined with a lot of insight is a sign of a person or people who had glimpses but are not awakened on a 24/7 basis.  

Also interesting what Adyashanti had to say about this:

“Enlightenment does not mean one should disappear into the realm of transcendence. To be fixated in the absolute is simply the polar opposite of being fixated in the relative…. To awaken to the absolute view is profound and transformative, but to awaken from all fixed points of view is the birth of true nonduality. If emptiness cannot dance, it is not true emptiness. If moonlight does not flood the empty night sky and reflect in every drop of water, on every blade of grass, then you are only looking at your own empty dream. I say, “Wake up!” Then your heart will be flooded with a Love that you cannot contain.”

That should serve as a good answer to those who insist on some absolute view such as "rape = love" and act like holding this insight is a sign of being awakened.  It's another form of spiritual bypassing imo, to use an absolute truth against someone's personal truth.   A truly enlightened person would prioritize showing/practicing compassion towards someone's personal experience/truth when needed as opposed to lecturing the person with some absolute truths, because they're not 'getting it'.

Needless to say I do appreciate Leo's dedication and courage as an explorer of truth/reality, but I'd recommend him to become even more dedicated to checking in with his own self on how much he is actually living these truths in his day to day life, if being enlightened on a permanent basis is his true goal.  

Being the moderator of your own forum also serves as an amplifier of the ego and to become a teacher prematurely before becoming awakened 24/7 is unfortunately unhelpful as the audience they gain will only enlarge their ego and ironically stop true enlightenment in its tracks or make it a lot harder.

 

 

[EternalForest]

@2ndComing Kinda petty to make fun of his looks. Leo is pretty clean cut compared to a lot of other Gurus anyways.

[EternalForest]

And why does every spiritual person need to read the Bible? Why don't Christians have to read the Tipitaka?

[Aaron p]

On 10/29/2022 at 4:40 AM, 2ndComing said:

Leos just lost in leftism, until he reads the bible again specifically the New Testament/Proverbs/Psalms/Genesis and Ecclesiastes, he'll just be rehashing his Eastern spirituality work. I don't know why he stopped lifting either, he needs to get a hair transplant, start lifting again, get married and have some kids instead of doing drugs and jerking off in bathtubs to porn saying he's God jerking off to himself.

@2ndComing second coming haha, nice 12th post 

[Ulax]

On 29/10/2022 at 4:40 AM, 2ndComing said:

Leos just lost in leftism, until he reads the bible again specifically the New Testament/Proverbs/Psalms/Genesis and Ecclesiastes, he'll just be rehashing his Eastern spirituality work. I don't know why he stopped lifting either, he needs to get a hair transplant, start lifting again, get married and have some kids instead of doing drugs and jerking off in bathtubs to porn saying he's God jerking off to himself.

@2ndComing In bathtubs? ?

Edited October 31, 2022 by Ulax

[Etherial Cat]

@newbee

Oh. Thanks so much for sharing this blogpost!  It arrives exactly at the right moment in my life. 

Quote

That radically feminist quote by the Dalai Lama is starting to make sense. The world will be saved by the western woman,” his Holiness said at the 2009 Vancouver Peace Summit.  When I first heard about these controversial words five years ago, I was steeped in the vastness, percolating awe and stillness in a months-long post awakening bliss honeymoon.

His proclamation did not inspire me nor intrigue me. Nothing back then moved the un-moveable stillness to any sort of emotional up or down, let alone getting caught up in what sounded like a feminist slogan.

But now, five years after my overnight awakening and at least four years into navigating the real life and online non-duality circuit, I’ve concluded the Dali Lama just might have been hinting at the limitations of a masculine approach to God.

Online forums and Facebook groups dedicated to endless debate about enlightenment, non-duality, advaita-vedanta, emptiness and more, are largely populated by men. And it’s men who are the most active participants in what often amounts to breast beating to prove who has the right answer or the most enlightened understanding.

But don’t take my word for it. Go hang out at a few of these groups, where enlightenment is discussed with clinical precision and posturing punditry. The debates can be entertaining, sure. But after a while, they fail to nourish.

Why? Because talking about your view of enlightenment compared to someone else’s is a lot different than sharing your experience of True Nature. The former is like a boxing ring. The latter is like a group hug.

---

If the Dalai Lama was pointing at anything, it might have been his own discernment that women (or the feminine approach) might offer some extra ju-ju and balance to the global consciousness raising scene. Because it seems to me a whole lot of awakened and awakening men are stuck in their heads. (Or put another way, the masculine orientation to analyze has runrampant at the expense of engaging at the level of the mystery).

First, it’s probably a good idea to define “stuck in the head.” My observation is there are two kinds of heady-awakenings (and yes, both men and woman are prone to them).

The first is where someone has understood the concept of “no self” and then gone on to live their life as if this cognitive grasp equals true realization. This idea-based version of awakening is most common among online, male-dominated chat groups about enlightenment. (Yes, there are women there too…I’m just saying, it’s mostly guys).

The second is the more rare case of folks who have been catapulted into the emptiness and get stuck there. Some call it Zen Sickness. It looks like apathy and indifference to any real engagement in reality. These sorts of men do show up in chat rooms online, but mostly to correct everyone by pointing out that “Nothing matters, nothing is real, there is no-one here, and so stop debating already.”

Adyashanti says this about the second type: “

Enlightenment does not mean one should disappear into the realm of transcendence. To be fixated in the absolute is simply the polar opposite of being fixated in the relative… To awaken to the absolute view is profound and transformative, but to awaken from all fixed points of view is the birth of true nonduality. If emptiness cannot dance, it is not true emptiness. If moonlight does not flood the empty night sky and reflect in every drop of water, on every blade of grass, then you are only looking at your own empty dream. I say, “Wake up!” Then your heart will be flooded with a Love that you cannot contain.”

---

The type of men who dominate these non-duality teaching circles are inclined toward a heady intellectual, philosophical and transcendent angle to awakening discourse.

It’s not enough to have the super-chill experience of your absolute nature. That transcendent truth must marry the immanent. You can’t truly be holy without embracing the profane. One pole without the other is simply duality.

The head and heart are both essential divinity portals for the emergence of the shift from ego to essence, or what Eckhart Tolle calls A New Earth. Adyashanti says it eloquently, “A quiet mind married to integrity of heart is the birth of wisdom.”

https://theawakeneddreamer.com/2016/04/03/why-i-prefer-the-company-of-awakened-women-over-the-non-duality-manscape/

---

A good way to know whether one is falling into the trap of unbalanced non-duality is to see whether:

Ideas are favored over Reality

Intellect over Emotions

Mind over Matter

Hierarchy over Cooperation

Doing over Being

Growth over Contraction

Admiration over Unconditional Love

Movement over Stillness

Ideologies over Wisdom

Planetary dominance over Planetary concern

Social structures over Nature

Economy over Ecology

Ideal over Real

Individuality over Oneness/Connection

 

[Inliytened1]

@Etherial Cat thought over Love, Being, Oneness (all the same) is falsehood.  Good stuff.  Thought is ego, Being is Oneness.  Pure Being is Omniscience, which is Love.  Which is lack of ego. 

One can reach this level of enlightenment without psychedelics - so Leo's bias has him in error there - but that's OK...that's only because he couldn't reach it himself that way.  So he's wrong about that - it's not impossible- just because most philosophers never did, does not make it impossible.   He should correct that in his latest work.

Ultimately one should leverage Actualized.org as a stepping stone and transcend it like any other model.  I do think the teachings here are superior to any other that I've come across - but still limited and a pointer, which must be transcended by you becoming God

 

Edited November 3, 2022 by Inliytened1

[newbee]

On 1-11-2022 at 4:14 PM, Lila9 said:

That made me laugh because it's so accurate.

@newbee Thank you, I'm glad that you shared this post!

I find this quote from her post intresting-

One of my favorite awakened women teachers, Vicki Woodyard (author of  Bigger than The Sky,  and A Guru in the Guest Room)  recently openly declared that she is “really tired of the masculine approach to enlightenment and awakening. The masculine approach is sterile…men wake up and say, ‘I don’t have any problems.’ That’s just not true.”

It’s not enough to have the super-chill experience of your absolute nature. That transcendent truth must marry the immanent. You can’t truly be holy without embracing the profane. One pole without the other is simply duality.

The head and heart are both essential divinity portals for the emergence of the shift from ego to essence, or what Echart Tolle calls A New Earth. Adyashanti says it eloquently, “A quiet mind married to integrity of heart is the birth of wisdom.”

You're welcome and I also think it's quite accurate and needed to be said 

I'm glad this person was able to see through her male 'teacher' as well.  His name is Igor Kufayev and I'm always surprised how others don't readily see through his massive ego such as his friend Rick Archer seems to be duped as well.  Rick does many interviews with awakened people on his youtube channel 'buddha at the gas pump station'.  But then again, I heard in an interview this Igor guy conveniently redefining enlightenment to mean that it's 'normal' for your ego to enlarge after enlightenment because that's how he experienced it, instead of being aware of the fact that he just had a glimpse and after that the structures of his ego came back full force *thinking* he's enlightened, lol.  These men do need a reminder that enlightenment means or at least involves a permanent loss of ego, if not you may have had a glimpse but nothing more than that.  

On 3-11-2022 at 1:17 PM, Etherial Cat said:

@newbee

Oh. Thanks so much for sharing this blogpost!  It arrives exactly at the right moment in my life. 

---

A good way to know whether one is falling into the trap of unbalanced non-duality is to see whether:

Ideas are favored over Reality

Intellect over Emotions

Mind over Matter

Hierarchy over Cooperation

Doing over Being

Growth over Contraction

Admiration over Unconditional Love

Movement over Stillness

Ideologies over Wisdom

Planetary dominance over Planetary concern

Social structures over Nature

Economy over Ecology

Ideal over Real

Individuality over Oneness/Connection

 

Good points!  Another red flag I can think of in relation to for example Igor Kufayev, is that I saw him talking while sitting on a chair (looked more like a throne) while his female devotees were sitting on the ground.  

A sign of Hierarchy over Cooperation or Equality.

 

Thanks for the video, I'll check it out!