Suicide

[at_anchor]

If what comes after suicide is even more suffering and could be even worse, all the people in the world who commit suicide daily have to read this post in order not to commit it. It seems kind of unfair to me. I'm here enjoying the benefits of your wisdom, while they are there suffering and thinking they will get away from it by commiting suicide. Then they get an even worse life, while I, the lucky one, who read this and did not commit suicide, get a better afterlife. Doesn't make any sense. Spirits are either all the same or there is just one Spirit. At least God should be fair and just.

[Someone here]

5 minutes ago, at_anchor said:

If what comes after suicide is even more suffering and could be even worse, all the people in the world who commit suicide daily have to read this post in order not to commit it. It seems kind of unfair to me. I'm here enjoying the benefits of your wisdom, while they are there suffering and thinking they will get away from it by commiting suicide. Then they get an even worse life, while I, the lucky one, who read this and did not commit suicide, get a better afterlife. Doesn't make any sense. Spirits are either all the same or there is just one Spirit. At least God should be fair and just.

Who said God "should " be fair and just ? Maybe God is the biggest asshole you ever imagined and he punishes those who commit suicide with eternal suffering?  I mean how would you know? You see,you gotta admit that you don't actually know crap about God,death, and the after life . 

Here's some reasons to NOT commit suicide:

1-One day, you will die anyway. What's the hurry, stay awhile.

2-Death is uncertain. You dont know whats on the other side.

3-life keeps changing. It is full of possiblities.

4- If you are a virgin : how can you end it , without even having sex.

[Thought Art]

Why would God care how you die when he doesn’t care how you live? 
 

Look at all the fucked up shit in reality. He clearly loves it all.

[Galyna]

1 hour ago, at_anchor said:

If what comes after suicide is even more suffering and could be even worse, all the people in the world who commit suicide daily have to read this post in order not to commit it. It seems kind of unfair to me. I'm here enjoying the benefits of your wisdom, while they are there suffering and thinking they will get away from it by commiting suicide. Then they get an even worse life, while I, the lucky one, who read this and did not commit suicide, get a better afterlife. Doesn't make any sense. Spirits are either all the same or there is just one Spirit. At least God should be fair and just.

There are no other people. With all my respect. But for you, right at this second is just a story. Admit you don’t truly know. It is a second order knowledge, who is primal then? YOU.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Galyna

[Bobby_2021]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

God doesn't punish you, God is just lost in dreams. Some of those dreams are nightmares. That is all. Don't make it personal.

Is suffering inevitable in finiteness?

So just by God deciding to become finite, he accepted suffering and all dreams are essentially nightmares.

Can you be in a finite dream and not suffer. Is this possible? 

[Thought Art]

@Bobby_2021 as long as you are human anyway

[Someone here]

20 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

What if you have terminal cancer and you are facing a slow and painful death? Wouldn't it make sense to take a short cut and spare yourself needless suffering that will eventually lead to the same result?

Of course, one might argue that life itself is a slow but steady physical deteriation process that invariably ends with death... it's an interesting conundrum.

I am not completely qualified to answer this because I have never been diagnosed with a terminal disease but I think I can share something that might be relevant.

Also, this is purely personal and so may not generalize.

There is this thing called passive suicidality, where you don't actually plan a suicide attempt but have thoughts along the lines of, “It's be so great if I that truck over there would hit me.” For me, every time I have something wrong with me and need to go to see the doctor, I sincerely hope that it's something fatal. If I have a stomach ache, I really hope that it's a cancer or that both of my kidneys have stopped working. If I have a headache, I really hope it's a brain tumor. When the results come in, I get really disappointed when it's something minor.

So, if I get diagnosed with a terminal illness, I would be incredibly happy. Except I would really want to die without much suffering. So, in fact, it would make me more likely to do something about it since now it will be somewhat easier for my loved ones to deal with my death.

[Loba]

10 hours ago, Gabith said:

Why is suicide discouraged in religions and in general in spirituality?

Would there be bad consequences?

What if we commit suicide by self-love because we are stuck in a situation of great suffering for example? Would it be okay ?

Suicide is discouraged because the process of growing your soul is meant to move you upwards and suicide is a downwards action that puts you back on the "soul train" so to speak.  Your soul wants to learn lessons to grow because you are destined to become a conscious creator, and if you don't learn what you need to while in school, you will need to come back.  Also, there can at times be negative forces in your life working against you that might cause you to want to harm yourself in such a way, that if they were seen into and removed that you would not do this to yourself.  Suicide is also traumatizing to the soul.  It can fragment you in a certain sense.

Other than having to repeat your lessons, from what I have learned about this process and gleaned into, there are no bad consequences aside from the fact that you don't get all that you were promised and that you have to repeat it again, and you might be put into a life that doesn't have access to the knowledge that you have now.  It could be a harder life.  The thing is, what we are promised on the other side is amazing.  We get to play forever, as the personality constructs that we are supposed to be, fully, completely whole and connected to the Light and to love, to our families, pets, friends, and lover.  This life on Earth is the hardest one because we are forced to forget what we learn when we come here time and time again.  It is only when you get to the end of your life, or after some very deliberate prying that you get access into all of this.  

If you do commit suicide, what will happen is that you will be very confused at first.  Your soul will need time to heal and you will be given extra time to do this, to see your family, you will get to go over your entire life and see what you could have done differently.  It won't be until after you have done it that you will know how wrong it was to do this and how easy the change would have been, just a switch in perception.  Those who die by suicide are not sent to Hell or some place evil, unless you lived a life that was enmired in wrong action, this might be reflected back to you for a time.  If this happens, the people who have NDE's that mention these frightening realms say that prayer and asking for forgiveness and mercy will bring the Light to you.  

The thing is - this is the kicker - death, just like in life is very personalized.  Everyone gets something a bit different, but the anatomy is similar that humans have mapped it out to some degree.  But your death is based on how you lived.  If you want to know about death, look at it in the face.  Research it.  NDE's, terminal illness, murders, the decomposition process, the interpretation of different religions, memento mori, make a journal on it, in music, in art, it is everywhere.  And finally, look your death in the face.  Not as an interpretation, but actually sit with it in real time.  You will die someday.  What if that is tomorrow?  Or now?  What will you feel when you go through it?  Go through that now with as much consciousness as you can.  Death is actually a layer, you can peel right behind it in a very real way, and it will tell you what you need to know for your own unique circumstance. 

The keys to right action?  Forgiveness, Love, Truth, Bravery, Sincerity.

Follow these, while accepting your mortality and you can't go wrong.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Loba

[Thought Art]

“There’s safety in the end” - Bon Iver (Heavenly Father)

[Gabith]

@Loba Thank you, I'm not ready to face death I think the first thing I need to do is to respect myself, stop trying pleasing people or thinking I owe them something 

very touching video.. 

[Loba]

1 hour ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

One argument against suicide seems to be that even after the body perishes, the mind will still go on and continue to suffer; this is apparently where the notion of a post suicide hell realm comes from. However, this implies that there is such a thing as transpersonal suffering - which obviously flies in the face of the notion that where there is no (illusory) person - i.e. no "sufferer" -, there can be no suffering.

I have not experienced such a thing.  I don't know if people who get into spirituality in this way are really seeing the full scope of it all.  I think you can get into that state, but that there are many different places, many different ways and that it's not quite as simple as just being "nobody" with no mind to suffer.  I have what could be considered a terminal illness, and it is active right now, but if it clears up I will have more time, I'm just waiting to see if and when it does, and I've gone through this death process in a very real manner and had a lot of different experiences, all of which lend to the reality that consciousness records itself.  You build on your experiences in order to Know how to create.  And so you need the ingredients that encompass everything.  As for Hell realms, I have experienced these in a certain light, but not to the degree of being so enmired in one that I felt stuck.  There was always a way out through simply moving my energy upwards - and so when discussing these things, for people who are suicidal or who want to know I include the reality of these places - along with a simple step for getting out, which is just to move the energy "up".  But I don't know enough about them to know if they are simply a mirror, if they are their own worlds, or what.  I would need and am actively looking into more experiences with them to be able to come to some personal conclusion.  I do know how to get out, though, and this is the step.  "Right action" - or things that allow the energy to flow free and positively.

1 hour ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

Again, what if your body is ridden with cancer? Is your soul going to slap itself on the forehead and say "gee, I should just have spend the last six months of my earthy existence in excruciating agony instead of taking an easier way out"?

Maybe I am speaking from a very egoic perspective when I say this, but letting the body die an unnecessarily slow and painful death just seems so pointless.

I think there would be leeway with that, just like if you put a family pet down for an illness.  I have had experiences of pets who passed away coming to me in dreams to say goodbye and they were not stuck in a bad space simply for being put down.  One didn't know it had died and was confused until I explained what had happened.  She stayed with me in my dreams for a few months before moving on.

What I am speaking about is more like, suicide just from feeling as though you are in a bad spot - but that could change with some effort or psychological perspective shifts.  I struggle with these thoughts as well, and have, in my opinion, gathered a lot of personal details on the nature of death in a very real manner, but just like with life, due to how we are all unique, I don't know how well they would translate to someone else who is their own individual person with a special path.  If that makes sense.  I also don't really hold onto my awakenings into these things as absolute truth, so they are open to change or to be expanded on or to be thrown away for a better paradigm.  I feel when one goes into it with a loose attachment, that you get more.

I don't think you are speaking from ego imo, I think you make sense.  If someone is suffering and they want an out and they are going to die anyways, then I don't think that God is going to cut them off at the tail end of their life.  I mean, they did learn their lessons.  And it might be better to die on one's own terms in the sense of illness, as you are prepared and still functional enough, while an illness can rob you of all of that and take away from it.  But let's say you are 16 and your parents divorced or you had a break up and kill yourself, this would be grounds to redo the process.

Feel free to poke holes in my work, or whatever, I don't mind.  If I don't know, then I don't know and sometimes having people point out certain flaws or weak areas is good because then I can look into it and see where I might need to grow in understanding.

Hope this response helps!

1 hour ago, Gabith said:

Thank you, I'm not ready to face death I think the first thing I need to do is to respect myself, stop trying pleasing people or thinking I owe them something 

very touching video.. 

Of course, I'm glad to know you are not suicidal.   Take your time, your soul will generally know when it is time to look death in the face.  There will just be a knowledge in your heart that has a strong pull that will say, "Okay, it is time to look at this now."  But generally, yeah, do everything when you feel is best for your personal journey.  I must let you know, it can be a very good and loving experience, once you get past the fear portion - it is very quiet and calm and there is an illumination that permeates all things and a Love that is in everything.  You will find that within this death is the paradoxical eternal life, pretty cool huh?

[Thought Art]

8 hours ago, Galyna said:

But a statement that you can kill your ego is wrong. There is nothing there to kill in the first place. You think you have an ego and it is some kind autonomous entity.

Look around your room right now, everything is information in your current visual field. You are the whole entire field, everything, absolutely EVERYTHING you are perceiving right at this second.

But to create an illusion of the separate self, there are thoughts (mental sensual images, auditory labels) on top of what you are perceiving right at this second.

Thoughts are needed for a purpose of the explanation and orientation in this visual field, you call “reality”. Otherwise, you would go insane and can not orient yourself, even could not locate or understand what you are.

Now, you are the whole entire picture. What you call ego is the perception (sounds, feelings, smells, tactile sensations and visual images + plus thoughts) that come and go and form the idea of the separate subjective experience.

Who are you going to kill there? If you mean “the voice” inside of your head, then sure, give it a try, it is impossible to kill it, however. @Gabith

 

1. How would you define ego?

2. Yes, that is a good point that I am everything in my experience. However, am I not still relating to the perceived “external world” and even my “internal world” through my egoic filter while in a normal sober state? 
 

3. Yes, there is an illusion or filter that I am placing on everything around me. That’s an aspect of ego in my mind. It’s an illusion, but isn’t it an illusion that exists? And there are substances and practices that alter and lower this illusion correct?

4. Yes, I agree that these thoughts keep me from being insane and act as survival function. 
 

5. ive never heard anyone including raw sensory data (smell, sounds, touch) etc as ego. Why would raw sensory experience be ego? 

[Breakingthewall]

suicide seems like a bad thing because you, as an existence, as the void that you are, aka god, have chosen to live this experience. with all its nuances, all its content. so, when things get ugly, even horrible, with maximum suffering, als, terminal cancer, whatever....you have chosen that. then, you, the avatar that you really are, should give your all, and endure your ordeal. you want to experience that. you want to be crucified. if you escape... I don't know if it's a punishment, but seems a disappointment.

 

[at_anchor]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

suicide seems like a bad thing because you, as an existence, as the void that you are, aka god, have chosen to live this experience. with all its nuances, all its content. so, when things get ugly, even horrible, with maximum suffering, als, terminal cancer, whatever....you have chosen that. then, you, the avatar that you really are, should give your all, and endure your ordeal. you want to experience that. you want to be crucified. if you escape... I don't know if it's a punishment, but seems a disappointment.

 

Thumbs up 

[Galyna]

3 hours ago, Thought Art said:

1. How would you define ego?

2. Yes, that is a good point that I am everything in my experience. However, am I not still relating to the perceived “external world” and even my “internal world” through my egoic filter while in a normal sober state? 
 

3. Yes, there is an illusion or filter that I am placing on everything around me. That’s an aspect of ego in my mind. It’s an illusion, but isn’t it an illusion that exists? And there are substances and practices that alter and lower this illusion correct?

4. Yes, I agree that these thoughts keep me from being insane and act as survival function. 
 

5. ive never heard anyone including raw sensory data (smell, sounds, touch) etc as ego. Why would raw sensory experience be ego? 

Remember 0 is nothing; 1 is everything! 
 

01010101

Everything around you is information which is represented by: 

shapes

colors 

sounds

And also information is represented by the internal feelings, thoughts and sensations.

Thoughts, feelings and sensations don’t belong to anybody. There is no agent behind who can claim this phenomenon. However your mind(a mind is a bundle: information plus memory) binds them together ( internal and external information) and creates the illusion of so called separated entity. However everything that you are perceiving, swims on it’s own in the ocean of encoded information. As soon as this information is captured and converged onto body, it is recognized and being claimed. That is how your ego is being born every single second. Everything that is claimed as “yours” belongs to your ego mind mechanism. In fact everything is ego, bc there is no objective reality. Now ego is necessary because if the information is unclaimed, it can not be KNOWN! You need a projector and the screen.
So yeah, raw sensory data can be claimed as ego, without ego they wouldn’t be recognized and claimed and perceived. Someone has to perceive to make them “alive”. 

 

Ego is information that is captured by the mind, converted and claimed as yours. There is no such thing as external and internal world. Notice it. 

 

Illusion of the ego is a must, otherwise the world, as you know it, wouldn’t be possible!  
 

it is a big discovery I have recently made. I want to create a thread about it. 
 

So…why do you buy into idea that there is an objective and subjective world? Notice, there is only information and this information is the Mind! However, the way this information is represented is the most crucial. Because this representation creates the boundary and illusion of the internal and external reality. 

Edited October 22, 2022 by Galyna

[Blackhawk]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

suicide seems like a bad thing because you, as an existence, as the void that you are, aka god, have chosen to live this experience. with all its nuances, all its content. so, when things get ugly, even horrible, with maximum suffering, als, terminal cancer, whatever....you have chosen that. then, you, the avatar that you really are, should give your all, and endure your ordeal. you want to experience that. you want to be crucified. if you escape... I don't know if it's a punishment, but seems a disappointment.

And if you choose suicide, then that's not a acceptable decision?

Everything except suicide are okay experiences?

Interesting..

 

There is no evidence that we have actively chosen this stuff. And no evidence for anything else in this thread..

You are just speculating.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Blackhawk

[Kuba Powiertowski]

 

[axiom]

5 hours ago, Galyna said:

Now ego is necessary because if the information is unclaimed, it can not be KNOWN!

Ego is necessary for the misapprehension of “knowing” to exist, seemingly.

But knowing (the notion of holding the infinite as finite, perceived, circumscribed) is just as illusory as the ego.

There is just stuff (“this”) that seems to be happening, and it includes what seems like “knowing”.

Knowing is just a particular texture, colour, another quale. It is not separate from anything else. It is not about perception. There is no perception.

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by axiom

[Breakingthewall]

6 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

You are just speculating.

Of course, it's just my impression. We could equally say that the act of committing suicide is precisely what you wanted to experience. And indeed, if you do, it's because you exist to do exactly that. 

In fact I think that in some circumstances, like terminal disease, it's a perfect way to go out, really brave and elegant 

Edited October 22, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Thought Art]

21 hours ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

What if you have terminal cancer and you are facing a slow and painful death? Wouldn't it make sense to take a short cut and spare yourself needless suffering that will eventually lead to the same result?

Of course, one might argue that life itself is a slow but steady physical deteriation process that invariably ends with death... it's an interesting conundrum.