Jen Stoltenberg - 'Putin's win will be a loss for all of NATO'

[Danioover9000]

@mr_engineer

14 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

Again, you're making this about me. And you're assuming that I'm not chilled, that I'm heated. That I'm 'too triggered to have a normal conversation'. How dare you assume that about my sanity?! You are shit-talking me when you say that. 

No more shit-talk against me on this thread, or I report you. You got a problem with me, PM me. I will not tolerate you invalidating what I'm saying by making personal remarks about me. The problem isn't the personal remarks themselves, but the fact that you're using them to discredit what I'm saying. 

   How are my questions and statements used to discredit you? If it's a fact, do you have proof that I'm intent in discrediting you?

   If I written my posts as personal remarks, can you show me what I written? My reasoning for how I worded those words, is how you've written your posts to other users and me here. If there's miscommunication, and you are not triggered or heated when you've written those posts, then I apologies in advance if that's the case. I just assumed, based on your typing style, that you were heated, and my intent in engaging with you and this topic behind my posts is to try and calm you and those down, bring the temperature back down to room level so to speak with light jests. If you were not heated in those moments, and if there are words in there that you have taken offense, please quote them in here.

   If my assumption about your state when you're writing is wrong, could you tell me what state you were actually in when writing, so that I can correctly communicate to you, if you still wish to interact with me in this thread?

   

[mr_engineer]

35 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

How are my questions and statements used to discredit you? If it's a fact, do you have proof that I'm intent in discrediting you?

To my eyes, what you're saying implies that if I just don't make this a big deal, my stance and attitude on this issue will change. In other words, I don't really mean what I'm saying. When I do. I found that offensive, because every single word here has been well thought out on my part. I'm not kidding around here, it's an extremely serious topic. 

I would ignore this thing if we were discussing something more casual, that doesn't matter so much. On this issue, though, because world peace is such an important value to me and I consider conflict-resolution to be a strength of mine, I felt the need to defend my credibility. 

35 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

If I written my posts as personal remarks, can you show me what I written? My reasoning for how I worded those words, is how you've written your posts to other users and me here. If there's miscommunication, and you are not triggered or heated when you've written those posts, then I apologies in advance if that's the case. I just assumed, based on your typing style, that you were heated, and my intent in engaging with you and this topic behind my posts is to try and calm you and those down, bring the temperature back down to room level so to speak with light jests. If you were not heated in those moments, and if there are words in there that you have taken offense, please quote them in here.

With all due respect, this is not a light issue. 

35 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

If my assumption about your state when you're writing is wrong, could you tell me what state you were actually in when writing, so that I can correctly communicate to you, if you still wish to interact with me in this thread?

I type with a lot of passion here, shall we say. Please don't make this mean that I'm not thinking clearly or that I don't know what I'm talking about. I may be wrong, but I'm not a fool. And it is very important for me to know why someone here thinks I'm wrong, so that I know what to correct in my worldview. And how to deal with conflicts in my own life. I have enough respect for this forum's intellectual wavelength to take your opinions seriously. 

Edited October 22, 2022 by mr_engineer

[Blackhawk]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Blackhawk

    What do you mean I contradict what I say? Where has my take contradicted?

   Can you explain to me why the following you said is a 'smart move' for Ukraine from your point of view:

becoming a sovereign country,

and a buffer state,

not choosing to become a buffer state,

and choosing to join NATO,

while either choosing to or not to be a buffer state? Is being a buffer state a choice? And why did you leave out the other possibilities of:

Ukraine joining Russia instead of NATO?

Ukraine joining with China?

Ukraine joining and making additional treaties and alliances with other foreign countries? Like with the USA? Or some other country?

 

   Also, what is a true sovereign state to you?

   What if becoming a buffer state is by survival, and not by choice?

?

I haven't left out anything.

Are you drunk? Or why are you talking nonsense?

Let me make it clear for you:

Ukraine should be free to do whatever it wants.

[Guest Tobia]

@Blackhawk just like Mexico and Cuba are free to do whatever they want, host russian missiles and form military alliances with Russia and china.

Cuba can certainly decide to host a chinese military base on its soil, right!?

The US would turn those countries into parking lots, or stage a brutal coup and overthrow their goverments.

Naive boy take a lesson of history and geopolitics before spitting out such idiotic childish nonsense

LOL 

There ain't no sovereignty for latin american countries, Iraq, Syria, Lybia, Yemen, Palestine.... the list goes on.

Even western europe has very little sovereignty when the US dictates its interests.

[Danioover9000]

@Blackhawk

On 2022-10-22 at 8:33 PM, Blackhawk said:

?

I haven't left out anything.

Are you drunk? Or why are you talking nonsense?

Let me make it clear for you:

Ukraine should be free to do whatever it wants.

   Ah, okay, so if Ukraine is absolutely free to do whatever it wants, can it kidnap you and your family for ransom?

   If Ukraine is free to do what it wants, is Ukraine allowed to persecute eastern Ukrainians?

   If Ukraine should be free to do what it wants, anytime in this conflict, would you let Ukraine concede to Russia?

   If Ukraine should be free to do what it wants, would you let it become a sovereign state, and a buffer state between NATO and Russian territory?

   If Ukraine should be free to do what it wants, would you let Ukraine split down the middle:  western Ukraine join NATO, and eastern Ukraine join Russia?

   And why should you stick your nose into Ukraine's free will?

Edited October 23, 2022 by Danioover9000

[Danioover9000]

@mr_engineer

On 2022-10-22 at 7:52 PM, mr_engineer said:

To my eyes, what you're saying implies that if I just don't make this a big deal, my stance and attitude on this issue will change. In other words, I don't really mean what I'm saying. When I do. I found that offensive, because every single word here has been well thought out on my part. I'm not kidding around here, it's an extremely serious topic. 

I would ignore this thing if we were discussing something more casual, that doesn't matter so much. On this issue, though, because world peace is such an important value to me and I consider conflict-resolution to be a strength of mine, I felt the need to defend my credibility. 

With all due respect, this is not a light issue. 

I type with a lot of passion here, shall we say. Please don't make this mean that I'm not thinking clearly or that I don't know what I'm talking about. I may be wrong, but I'm not a fool. And it is very important for me to know why someone here thinks I'm wrong, so that I know what to correct in my worldview. And how to deal with conflicts in my own life. I have enough respect for this forum's intellectual wavelength to take your opinions seriously. 

   I see, then I've overstepped my assumption of your state of mind. I was curious where this conversation would go, but I think it reached it's natural course for me. Let's forget and part ways then.

[Danioover9000]

@Tobia

21 hours ago, Tobia said:

@Blackhawk just like Mexico and Cuba are free to do whatever they want, host russian missiles and form military alliances with Russia and china.

Cuba can certainly decide to host a chinese military base on its soil, right!?

The US would turn those countries into parking lots, or stage a brutal coup and overthrow their goverments.

Naive boy take a lesson of history and geopolitics before spitting out such idiotic childish nonsense

LOL 

There ain't no sovereignty for latin american countries, Iraq, Syria, Lybia, Yemen, Palestine.... the list goes on.

Even western europe has very little sovereignty when the US dictates its interests.

   I know that how @Blackhawk wasn't optimal and carefully thought out his posts in your and my posts, but to extend some good faith, I think this topic is already triggering for some users, and maybe it's both the combination of talking to a text box and pixels and picture, which is different from a face-to-face conversation amongst us, and having hidden assumptions in how we write and generalize ideas.