Can we have an honest discussion about race?

[Heart of Space]

It's very sensitive and uncomfortable for people to broach this subject.  I have a few opinions based on some major points of evidence about race that I'd like to share.  This is not a thread motivated at all by prejudice, or hatred of any kind.  Please do not respond with racism or claims that I am hateful.  

The races are not all the same.  Each race is a population with aggregate genetic qualities that are different from each other.  Things like intelligence, athleticism, communication skills, and so on.  

Let me cut to the chase in a way that might trigger people, but hear me out.  

Black people are genuinely intellectually inferior.  

Now, I'm not going to write you a peer reviewed research essay on why this is the case, but I'll make a few major points in the favor of this uncomfortable truth.  Black communities and societies all over the world are far less successful on average.  Black IQ scores are lower, by quite a large margin. 

Now you could throw a lot of arguments about environmental or historical factors.  But I don't' believe that accounts for the large gap in intelligence entirely.  It only accounts for a portion.  And in arguing that 100% of the gap is explained by these factors you are in denial of the obvious truth that genetic populations vary.  

I think that we should all come to accept this reality, knowing that individuals within any population can still succeed in life.  People should grow to be comfortable with these facts and view them as not that big of a deal. 

To justify the political importance of this topic:  If you believe that you are equal to others in capability and are just a victim of bad environment and historical factors you can justify a belief in being entitled to equal resources.   This idea pervades the politics of liberal and progressive black people everywhere in the United States.  Policy idea's relating to affirmative action, or reparations.  Or just general societal resentment towards white people.  

A true meritocracy has racial bias.  

Edited October 20, 2022 by Heart of Space

[thepixelmonk]

Oh jesus christ. lmao the irony of posting one of the most intellectually asinine posts on the forum while thinking you're superior. Somehow you've returned to the forum even more of a clown.

[Heart of Space]

22 minutes ago, KH2 said:

You can't possibly expect for this to be a non biased, peaceful and non hateful discussion, while presenting literaly zero evidence and/or studies as a solid proof for your racist claims. It's one thing to say certain individuals are objectively low IQ, stupid etc. etc. it's a whole other thing to characterize an entire race of people that way.

There are obvious genetic differences between groups of people depending on the geographical location of their birth, sure. For example, people from Kenya and Ethopia are excellent runners, due to being forced to live in high altitudes and hunt their entire lives. Does that mean all black people and/or ONLY black people are excellent runners? Of course not. People from Dagestan also share this trait, and they're all white.

Ammount of melanin in ones skin doesn't and cannot have any effect on the inteligence of an individual. You are clearly subtly racist.

Google race and IQ studies.  They're somewhat famous, I just assumed everyone who was internet saavy would be aware.  

In terms of societal success, what do you want me to do?  List GDP by country?  Or crime statistics in black communities?  All of the evidence is out there, obvious and well accepted facts.  Although the IQ/race study is disputed quite a bit.  

I'm not sure you understand the nature of genetics and there role in survival over generations.  Kenyans are good at running because it was a trait that was beneficial for the survival of that population.  Hence why they're good at it and better than other populations that didn't require as much as that trait.  

And of course you could have a cordial conversation on the subject.  

Edited October 20, 2022 by Heart of Space

[thepixelmonk]

1 minute ago, Heart of Space said:

Google race and IQ studies.  They're somewhat famous, I just assumed everyone who was internet saavy would be aware.  

In terms of societal success, what do you want me to do?  List GDP by country?  Or crime statistics in black communities?  All of the evidence is out there, obvious and well accepted facts.  Although the IQ/race study is disputed quite a bit.  

And of course you could have a cordial conversation on the subject.  

Jesus fking christ please do not get started on this crime statistics in black communities nonsense. You're simply a racist pos. End of story. Mods please lock thread before this gets out of hand. And Heart do the rest of us a favor and get outta here. Post this shit on other forums that will be more receptive to your bigotry.

[zurew]

7 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

Google race and IQ studies

Those doesn't prove your conclusion. Those things only prove that there are differences, but doesn't explain why those differences are occuring.

[Heart of Space]

5 minutes ago, zurew said:

Those doesn't prove your conclusion. Those things only prove that there are differences, but doesn't explain why those differences are occuring.

True, everyone, including me, acknowledges that.  The question is what percentage do we attribute to environmental factors versus innate genetic factors.  

I say that genetic factors probably play a reasonably significant role.   

Edited October 20, 2022 by Heart of Space

[thepixelmonk]

9 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

I say that genetic factors probably play a reasonably significant role.   

Yeah because you're racist. Are you even remotely aware of the full range of statistics and studies out there, like Nigerians are the most successful ethnic group in America? There are probably hundreds of studies I could link that rebutes and explains your black-on-black crime BS. You're just cherry-picking nonsense to support your intellectually asinine bigotry. Nobody on this forum has time for this. Hopefully openly and blatant racists threads like these will get locked.

Edited October 20, 2022 by thepixelmonk

[zurew]

8 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

I say that genetic factors probably play a reasonably significant role.   

But why do you assume, that thats the case? What reasons do you have to assume this?

[Heart of Space]

4 minutes ago, thepixelmonk said:

Yeah because you're racist. Are you even aware of the full range of statistics and studies out there, like Nigerians are the most successful ethnic group in America? There are probably hundreds of studies I could link that rebutes and explains your black-on-black crime BS. You're just cherry-picking nonsense to support your intellectually asinine bigotry. Nobody on this forum has time for this. Hopefully openly and blatant racists threads like these will get locked.

If I'm cherry picking, it's like picking a cherry out of a barrel full.  

[Heart of Space]

6 minutes ago, zurew said:

But why do you assume, that thats the case? What reasons do you have to assume this?

Just inductive reasoning based on an understand of genetics and evolution.  And all the related statistical evidence.  Intelligence metrics, crime statistics, societal wealth, standard of living.  

Endless metrics to choose from and all them point to the same thing.  

[thepixelmonk]

1 minute ago, Heart of Space said:

If I'm cherry picking, it's like picking a cherry out of a barrel full.  

This blatant idiocy is just painful. Just your average brainwashed white racist pig folks. I'm done here.

[something_else]

4 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

Just inductive reasoning based on an understand of genetics and evolution.  And all the related statistical evidence.  Intelligence metrics, crime statistics, societal wealth, standard of living.  

Endless metrics to choose from and all them point to the same thing.  

Gonna need some links there mate

Shouldn’t be a problem since your opinion is of course based on ‘endless’ metrics and statistics

[Tyler Robinson]

Lot of white knights are going to see this thread as the ultimate goldmine. Huge jackpot.  It's payday folks.

 

[Heart of Space]

5 minutes ago, something_else said:

Gonna need some links there mate

Shouldn’t be a problem since your opinion is of course based on ‘endless’ metrics and statistics

I gave you a few really great and easy starting points for your own research.  It would take you 10 minutes to look up IQ by race, or GDP by country for example.

Don't ask me to do your own work for you.  I can only point the way.  

[zurew]

7 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

Just inductive reasoning based on an understand of genetics and evolution.  And all the related statistical evidence.  Intelligence metrics, crime statistics, societal wealth, standard of living.  

Endless metrics to choose from and all them point to the same thing.  

So again, all those statisitcs that I know of, are not strengthening your point, only proves that there is a difference, but that difference can be explained in many ways using many variables, so for you to prove that genetics is the main factor you would have to exclude many things.

[mr_engineer]

@Heart of Space Dude, why are you doing this?!

 

[thepixelmonk]

6 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

I gave you a few really great and easy starting points for your own research.  It would take you 10 minutes to look up IQ by race, or GDP by country for example.

Don't ask me to do your own work for you.  I can only point the way.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

"Pseudoscientific claims of inherent differences in intelligence between races have played a central role in the history of scientific racism. The first tests showing differences in IQ scores between different population groups in the United States were the tests of United States Army recruits in World War I. In the 1920s, groups of eugenics lobbyists argued that these results demonstrated that African Americans and certain immigrant groups were of inferior intellect to Anglo-Saxon white people, and that this was due to innate biological differences. In turn, they used such beliefs to justify policies of racial segregation. However, other studies soon appeared, contesting these conclusions and arguing instead that the Army tests had not adequately controlled for environmental factors, such as socioeconomic and educational inequality between black people and white people. Later observations of phenomena such as the Flynn effect and disparities in access to prenatal care also highlighted ways in which environmental factors affect group IQ differences. In recent decades, as understanding of human genetics has advanced, claims of inherent differences in intelligence between races have been broadly rejected by scientists on both theoretical and empirical grounds."

As others have said above, these simple "IQ by race" statistics, by themselves, don't prove anything, and if you're gonna come in here and start this discussion, the burden of proof in replying to these points is on you.
 

3 minutes ago, peebz said:

It's alright man. Stage green can't deal with anything that shows that there are differences amongst groups, especially genetic. Obviously different groups have specific qualities that they have developed over time.  Similar to how different breeds of dogs have been breed for specific characteristics. Humans are no different, they range wildly, some breeding or trait selection could have been intentional, some not. But, there is no denying that Europeans are the most successful group of people on the planet, which is precisely why they are hated. The compassion of the left can only love the marginalized because they view themselves to be the underdogs and align themselves to be the hero for the least successful groups. It pisses people off even more that homogenous groups of people were responsible for some of the greatest achievements in history. I'm not racist, it is weird I even have to disclaimer that, but groups are different, no one can deny that. Blacks are superior in certain areas, asians are superior in certain areas, jews are superior in certain areas, but when you say europeans are superior in certain areas, it's racist. It is a fucking joke lol

oh great another bigot joins.

Edited October 20, 2022 by thepixelmonk

[Heart of Space]

@mr_engineer  There's a legitimate reason.  

@Tyler Robinson  It seems you have nothing of substance to add, perhaps just observe rather than post asinine comments?    

@thepixelmonk African Americans score lower than European Americans on vocabulary, reading, and math tests, as well as on tests that claim to measure scholastic aptitude and intelligence.  It's not just IQ testing.  It's every academic and intelligence metric available.  They're inferior everywhere.  Just google it yourself and be free of your illusion.  

Edited October 20, 2022 by Heart of Space

[mr_engineer]

1 minute ago, Heart of Space said:

@mr_engineer  There's a legitimate reason.  

Enlighten me. 

[Heart of Space]

7 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

Your thread needs to be locked because it serves zero positive purpose. 

Ironically, you just posted a great criticism.  

I disagree. There is political divisiveness and this subject informs a lot of policy suggestions and implementation in regards to racial equality in this country.  It informs a sense of entitlement to economic resources.   

@mr_engineer  It's a difficult topic.  No topic should be off limits.  There is a massive amount of racial shadow in this country.  It all needs to be vetted out and the truth needs to be seen and accepted.  

Edited October 20, 2022 by Heart of Space