Game is more of a internal battle than external

[Jacob Morres]

From my pov I think the game aspect and techniques can be very counterproductive at times like: approaching  1000 women, learning to speak loud, eye contact etc. 

Bc i think for most guys , healing the internal will get way better roi. Like self-esteem, trauma, inner child work, therapy, self love

It will actually be wayyy easier to game when this is clean. 

Gaming when you have the issues I've mentioned is so challenging and it is not really stressed how important it is 

What's worse is I remember RSD would even disparage this stuff by saying things like wtf will meditating do for you? Go out and approach! But I think that was honestly the entire crux of their philosophy 

Also -> i think that 

Good external game is a byproduct of good internal game imo 

If you can get really good internal game, external game gets really easy 

I actually think the split is 80% internal, 20% external 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Jacob Morres

[Leo Gura]

What are you smoking? RSD has been teaching the importance of inner game for over a decade now. Most of their teachings are inner game to the point where guys aren't even learning proper outer game.

Outer game is really important. It's hard to fix your inner game without massive approaching. Inner game is an advanced topic.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Jodistrict]

From my point of view, the whole “game” metaphor pushes men down a blind alley.  It is a marketing strategy that sells hot air.  Instead of game, learn to connect.  You connect, first with yourself, and then with her.  Connection, not game.

[Jacob Morres]

14 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

From my point of view, the whole “game” metaphor pushes men down a blind alley.  It is a marketing strategy that sells hot air.  Instead of game, learn to connect.  You connect, first with yourself, and then with her.  Connection, not game.

good point. Though some of the teachings were good so I don't wanna throw out the whole thing 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Jacob Morres

[The0Self]

Game is more of an insight + calibration thing, rather than a “just do 1000 approaches” thing. Doing the latter may work but it is also likely to create bad habits that you have to unlearn. It shouldn’t take even 50 approaches before you get results… Just because many had to do that (or many times that) doesn’t mean they did it the most efficient way. Just plug and play with a system developed by an expert that has loads of clients with tons of proof of their own success (in accumulating lays with hot women, in this case), just like anything else… it’s that simple. Now go find who that is — but that’s easier said than done, and you have to navigate the effects of financial incentives in that space with a heart of stone, but it’s worth it.

Follow the evidence where it leads and don’t get roped into thinking something is the holy grail. If a coach that you like seems to have a very unattractive gf, don’t cope and delude yourself into thinking “she must just have a great personality” — the dude simply doesn’t know game as well as he claims, so mourn the loss of that guru, and keep searching. Rest assured, if a dating coach could have a hot gf, he would have one — their ego would not be able to resist using that ability (for myriad reasons, including even product sales, and especially minimal cognitive dissonance), so if they don’t have one, obviously…move on.

Edited October 20, 2022 by The0Self

[Miguel1]

6 hours ago, The0Self said:

Game is more of an insight + calibration thing, rather than a “just do 1000 approaches” thing.

And how do you develop calibration? Especially master-level calibration? By approaching a TON and each time you do something stupid, you get punished for it. Every time you get punished for it, you are forced to analyze it and change your habits and behavior (because it is more painful to not change than to change), both the gross and more importantly, the subtle ones.

[Leo Gura]

When I say to do 1000 approaches, I don't mean mindless approaches, I mean quality approaches. I mean you analyze every approach after the fact and work on your sticking points.

Honestly, 1000 approaches is so little. In practice you should be aiming towards 5000-10000 if you are serious. And they gotta be quality!

Edited October 20, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Miguel1]

7 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

From my point of view, the whole “game” metaphor pushes men down a blind alley.  It is a marketing strategy that sells hot air. 

Silly. Make sure you are not just justifying to yourself that you do not need to do the hard work cuz it very much sounds like it.

[Consept]

I think its the same as any skill youre trying to master ie lets say you want to learn chess, yes the best way to get good is to play 1000 games, most of which you'll probably lose, but you will start to see patterns and get to know what works and what doesnt and slowly youll start to get better. However, youll hit a wall where you'll plateu if you dont start having a better understanding of the game holistically through theory and learning about why certain things work. I think you can replace theory for inner game in this case. If you just had the theory though, youd also get stuck when you actually play a game because you wouldnt be comfortable in a game situation and all the little basic things wouldnt come natural to you. 

So both are essential, personally i go more on the action side when learning new things and sometimes i feel my learning could even be speeded up if i could just sit down and do theory. But you have to see where that balance lies for you and if its all theory and no action you need to balance that out and step up your action. 

[Karmadhi]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Honestly, 1000 approaches is so little. In practice you should be aiming towards 5000-10000 if you are serious. And they gotta be quality!

I have met most good gamers in my city and tbh the most i have seen is 2000 from a guy and he is a total beast. Gets like 60% number and close to 1 lay per 15 approaches (day guy). The rest that get good results usually are between 500-1000. I think 5000 is a bit overkill unless you are looking to become a world class PUA with 200 lays or something or unless you are a very hard case with 0 social skills when you start.

Personally i started doing it recently and it took me around 7 approaches to get my first date from it. Probably luck but the rest i know started getting results around the 500 mark. By results i mean consistently kinda, not just 1 lucky date.

Most of them are during day though, maybe night requires more volume idk.

I say this cuz when someone hears 5000-10.000 they will be greatly discouraged when its not really necessary unless u wanna be world class at this stuff, when most guys dont.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Karmadhi

[petar8p]

@Jacob Morres

 

The real question is are those just rationalisations not to face your fears? 

 

Seems like a bunch of conclusions made while resisting to get deep into pickup. 

We don't need your excuses. This is just your theory. Theory doesn't come first. Theory comes after hours and hours of experience. 

 

You can read theory all you want but it doesn't substitute experience and it shouldn't. Most valuable things come at the expanse of time and effort. This is just a feature of the Universe.

 

RSD is big on inner game, especially Julien. He introduced me to spirituality in the best possible way.

 

Wish you a happy pick-up journey. The faster you see your responsibility to approach and adapt internally, the better for everyone.

 

Your ratio external-internal might be different than for other people, but I wouldn't try to conclude this if I wasn't greatly immersed in a pickup journey before and it didn't work.

 

[Jodistrict]

2 hours ago, Migue Lonas said:

Silly. Make sure you are not just justifying to yourself that you do not need to do the hard work cuz it very much sounds like it.

I'ts not work for me, but if you want to stick in that paradigm, it's your choice.

[petar8p]

2 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

I have met most good gamers in my city and tbh the most i have seen is 2000 from a guy and he is a total beast. Gets like 60% number and close to 1 lay per 15 approaches (day guy). The rest that get good results usually are between 500-1000. I think 5000 is a bit overkill unless you are looking to become a world class PUA with 200 lays or something or unless you are a very hard case with 0 social skills when you start.

2000 is 10/day for half a year only. I don't think that will make you close to world class PUA.

[Ulax]

11 hours ago, Jacob Morres said:

From my pov I think the game aspect and techniques can be very counterproductive at times like: approaching  1000 women, learning to speak loud, eye contact etc. 

Bc i think for most guys , healing the internal will get way better roi. Like self-esteem, trauma, inner child work, therapy, self love

It will actually be wayyy easier to game when this is clean. 

Gaming when you have the issues I've mentioned is so challenging and it is not really stressed how important it is 

What's worse is I remember RSD would even disparage this stuff by saying things like wtf will meditating do for you? Go out and approach! But I think that was honestly the entire crux of their philosophy 

Also -> i think that 

Good external game is a byproduct of good internal game imo 

If you can get really good internal game, external game gets really easy 

I actually think the split is 80% internal, 20% external 

@Jacob Morres I agree with the idea that focusing so heavily on outer game can be v counterproductive at times.

It seems to me that by not doing deep inner work and doing lots of outer work many folks develop cluster b like coping strategies when they get effective at pickup. For example, I look at videos by someone like Bradicus who seems to me to have not done too much deep inner work, and it seems to me like he's got an unchecked grandiosity to numerous of his behaviours.

Also, I want to speak on what I think is a slightly different, though related subject. I think RSD, and to some extent also how Leo, are not conscious of the negative aspects of recommending pickup in such a seemingly one-size-fits-all fashion.

I think rsd is mostly stage orange, and red. I think it follows that they don't understand the effects of their teachings. For example, it seems there is an idea that those who are the most successful by pick up norms are seen to be winners who simply exercised their freedom of will better than those who are less successful by pickup norms.

I think folks who engage with their content will have very mixed results. And the results, as I believe is so with everything, will ultimately be determined by factors outside of their control like mental health situation, social experiences, circumstances, luck of results, financial situation, ability to resonate with the material, ability to have an open mind. 

However, I don't think any RSD instructor acknowledges any of this to a significant level. And I don't think its in their business interests to acknowledge it openly.

From personal experience, I believe made progress, in some significant aspects, through doing pickup. However, I believe I had some seriously negative effects from it. For example, I think as a consequence of implementing pickup aspects to my life, i.e. cold approach, I was re-traumatised, and the severity of my dissociation subsequently increased significantly.

I'm not saying that pick shouldn't therefore be recommended. However, just that recommending pickup, in the broadstroke way I see it tends to be, can lead to negative consequences for various people. In that aspect, I think there is a lack of integrity and/ or consciousness with regards to the behaviour of those who do recommend PU in that way.

[petar8p]

33 minutes ago, Ulax said:

@Jacob Morres I agree with the idea that focusing so heavily on outer game can be v counterproductive at times.

It seems to me that by not doing deep inner work and doing lots of outer work many folks develop cluster b like coping strategies when they get effective at pickup. For example, I look at videos by someone like Bradicus who seems to me to have not done too much deep inner work, and it seems to me like he's got an unchecked grandiosity to numerous of his behaviours.

Also, I want to speak on what I think is a slightly different, though related subject. I think RSD, and to some extent also how Leo, are not conscious of the negative aspects of recommending pickup in such a seemingly one-size-fits-all fashion.

I think rsd is mostly stage orange, and red. I think it follows that they don't understand the effects of their teachings. For example, it seems there is an idea that those who are the most successful by pick up norms are seen to be winners who simply exercised their freedom of will better than those who are less successful by pickup norms.

I think folks who engage with their content will have very mixed results. And the results, as I believe is so with everything, will ultimately be determined by factors outside of their control like mental health situation, social experiences, circumstances, luck of results, financial situation, ability to resonate with the material, ability to have an open mind. 

However, I don't think any RSD instructor acknowledges any of this to a significant level. And I don't think its in their business interests to acknowledge it openly.

From personal experience, I believe made progress, in some significant aspects, through doing pickup. However, I believe I had some seriously negative effects from it. For example, I think as a consequence of implementing pickup aspects to my life, i.e. cold approach, I was re-traumatised, and the severity of my dissociation subsequently increased significantly.

I'm not saying that pick shouldn't therefore be recommended. However, just that recommending pickup, in the broadstroke way I see it tends to be, can lead to negative consequences for various people. In that aspect, I think there is a lack of integrity and/ or consciousness with regards to the behaviour of those who do recommend PU in that way.

What's the alternative?

Figure that out and you can make a lot of ?? by helping people overcome their problems..

 

[Ulax]

1 minute ago, petar8p said:

What's the alternative?

Figure that out and you can make a lot of ?? by helping people overcome their problems..

 

@petar8p I agree re money.

Regarding the alternative, I think there will likely be various alternatives. However, I think the major solution will be conscious politics, or a really effective AI depth psychotherapy that gets developed in the future.

[Karmadhi]

1 hour ago, petar8p said:

2000 is 10/day for half a year only. I don't think that will make you close to world class PUA

That is 70 approaches a week which is kinda ridicioulous. Nobody can do that much unless it is their full time job. Most guys struggle to do 25 a week at best. 

Secondly, i met a guy who had around 2k approaches, even had an excel shit and his skills are insane. He can get number of like 50% of girls he opens during day and is a local coach atm. I have seen him in action, total beast. When he started he had a lot of approach anxiety but had decent social skills. I always assume you have a healthy social life and decent social skills before you start this stuff. Not someone that has never talked to someone in his life. Then ofc 2k might not be enough.

 

[The0Self]

3 hours ago, Consept said:

 

I think its the same as any skill youre trying to master ie lets say you want to learn chess, yes the best way to get good is to play 1000 games, most of which you'll probably lose, but you will start to see patterns and get to know what works and what doesnt and slowly youll start to get better.

It’s the same with game. The problem is, without a working system, you won’t be able to play the whole game, you’ll keep failing on the first level.

To at least make sure you’re playing on the second level from the start, you only need to keep 4 things in mind until they’re second nature, on the open:

1. Square up; feet facing her

2. Loud enough

3. Strong eye contact

4. Commanding vocal tonality (downward inflection)

And eventually you’ll want to do the same with these 4, again, preferably starting on the open or just after:

- Be physical

- Realize that what you say does not matter — assume you already got the girl; don’t calibrate before anything you do or say (only calibrate after)

- Deal with friends in the group as needed by simply being normal and introducing yourself, then go back to your girl

- Use dominant body language

 

If you just go in haphazardly without solidifying at least those first 4 into your psyche, you will continue to fail the first level and won’t get any practice with level 2+.

[petar8p]

9 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

That is 70 approaches a week which is kinda ridicioulous. Nobody can do that much unless it is their full time job. Most guys struggle to do 25 a week at best. 

Just untrue. Once you are in a flow-state you can do 10 in 20 minutes easily. 

[The0Self]

3 hours ago, petar8p said:

Just untrue. Once you are in a flow-state you can do 10 in 20 minutes easily. 

3 numbers (after failed screen for logistics to pull) per hour is a good goal. One should aim for "Pulls that generally settle for Numbers," not "Approaches." That's a better frame to be in anyway -- don't think of the girl as an approach, think of her as someone who is just about to be in your life -- or even better if you can swing it: already is in your life.

Edited October 20, 2022 by The0Self