Mens rights & the dark side of the me too movement

[something_else]

2 hours ago, Optimized Life said:

He has got a point though ... There is a specific category of men (Who I've noticed in direct experience multiple times forming accurate neural node) who are not only willing to believe women no matter what, but will act, without any justification to defend them in order to play up the hero identity and maybe get some pussy out of it. There are also men with boyfriends who will unnecessarily act defensive over their girlfriend as an excuse to bully other men, maybe the other guy literally just said "hi" and asked for her number, but maybe the girl is addicted to playing victim and loves the attention she is on the darkside of feminist ideology or she is just a narcisist and in this context the boyfriend will co-opt the modern bias to instantly believe women & shame men against women, I think that posting any shameful post about how the "guy did this" without legal proof and evidence should be a crime, as once the fake post is out the damage is done & it's too late, humans have bias called belief preservation bias which explains the irreparable damage of rumours despite nullifying evidence.

Most decent humans are going to take a girl seriously when she makes a reasonable sounding accusation of rape or sexual assault. It's just the decent thing to do. Most aren't doing it to be a white knight and get some sex.

I know guys like that exist but they're not especially common. Not as common as right-wing internet culture would lead you to believe.

Same goes for "white-knight soy-boy cucks". Those are all terms adopted from right-wing internet culture.

There are some people who you can tell get all their ideas about other people and groups from the internet.

Edited October 18, 2022 by something_else

[mr_engineer]

10 minutes ago, something_else said:

Most decent humans are going to take a girl seriously when she makes a reasonable sounding accusation of rape or sexual assault. It's just the decent thing to do. Most aren't doing it to be a white knight and get some sex.

Blindly believing a woman when she makes an accusation, is a very recent thing. It didn't happen in the era of arranged-marriages, when men were getting laid. Sex didn't cloud men's judgement at the time. 

'Believe all women' is a highly irrational response to accusations. And, the idea of it being 'reasonable-sounding', is a rationalization. 

You're the one looking to the internet for MeToo trolls. In reality, most men are decent people. 

[something_else]

40 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

Blindly believing a woman when she makes an accusation, is a very recent thing. It didn't happen in the era of arranged-marriages, when men were getting laid. Sex didn't cloud men's judgement at the time. 

'Believe all women' is a highly irrational response to accusations. And, the idea of it being 'reasonable-sounding', is a rationalization. 

You're the one looking to the internet for MeToo trolls. In reality, most men are decent people. 

The default assumption when someone tells you some new information is that they are telling the truth. If you didn’t hold this assumption you could not live your life.

When your boss tells you information you need for work you don’t immediately assume he is lying and go and ask your other superiors if he is telling the truth. Because he typically has nothing to gain by lying to you.

If a girl makes an accusation it should be investigated. Because she rarely has a reason to lie and it is a common occurrence for women to actually be sexually abused.

No, the man should not be sentenced without investigation of course. But you should take the girl seriously and investigate nonetheless.

That is the reasonable and decent approach.

It isn’t necessarily blindly believing, it’s simply taking a woman seriously when she makes an accusation.

[mr_engineer]

1 minute ago, something_else said:

The default assumption when someone tells you some new information is that they are telling the truth. 

That's a problem. 

Because, 'truth' is much more complex than a single sentence. 

1 minute ago, something_else said:

If you didn’t hold this assumption you could not live your life.

You could. You'd just have to integrate the context of what's being said and where they're coming from, how trustworthy the source is, etc. And, because the feminine epistemology is feelings-first and not facts-first, I'd especially be careful believing women. 

3 minutes ago, something_else said:

When your boss tells you information you need for work you don’t immediately assume he is lying and go and ask your other superiors if he is telling the truth. Because he typically has nothing to gain by lying to you.

If a girl makes an accusation it should be investigated. Because she rarely has a reason to lie and it is a common occurrence for women to actually be sexually abused.

All lying is not malicious. It can simply be a product of being wrong or miscommunications. But, malicious forces can definitely take advantage of gullible people who just don't know they're wrong. 

[something_else]

1 hour ago, mr_engineer said:

And, because the feminine epistemology is feelings-first and not facts-first, I'd especially be careful believing women.

Oh mate I’m sorry. You’re too far gone, it’s not even worth discussing this with you

[mr_engineer]

@something_else @KH2

A large part of the MeToo movement was women who regretted their decisions sleeping with someone, trying to flip the tables and blame the other person for their decision. That's what I mean! 

Don't take women's maturity for granted on this issue. Yeah fine, they're more socially calibrated and stuff. But, when it comes to the nuts and bolts of consent-status, they can lose track! It's not facts-first, it's feelings-first. And, there's all kinds of messiness with them being able to revoke consent after the fact. 

[something_else]

1 hour ago, mr_engineer said:

A large part of the MeToo movement was women who regretted their decisions sleeping with someone, trying to flip the tables and blame the other person for their decision. That's what I mean! 

This is just more shit you read online. You can’t possibly know or verify this.

[mr_engineer]

8 minutes ago, something_else said:

This is just more shit you read online. You can’t possibly know or verify this.

Women wiser than you or me have openly admitted to this reality about other women, who aren't so wise. 

Don't tell me what I can/can't know. Don't project your limiting-beliefs onto me. 

In fact, the entire MeToo movement can be boiled down to 'shit you read online'. Checkmate. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by mr_engineer

[something_else]

8 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

Women wiser than you or me have openly admitted to this reality about other women, who aren't so wise. 

Gonna need some links for that one mate

[mr_engineer]

7 minutes ago, something_else said:

Gonna need some links for that one mate

Unfortunately, it's not 'on the internet'. Cuz if it were, it would get censored, as so many female MRAs are. It's anecdotal. Maybe you're the one who needs to stop spending time online. 

And don't come at me with the 'I need stats' thing. Cuz what women say matters too! Now, some women are smarter than others. So, what the smarter women say matters more than what the dumber women say. 

[UnbornTao]

@mr_engineer watch your attitude and comments. Try to contribute in a thoughtful and constructive way.

Edited October 19, 2022 by UnbornTao

[mr_engineer]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

@mr_engineer watch your attitude and comments. Contribute in a thoughtful and constructive way.

Out of curiosity, if I were a woman, would you be saying the same to me? 

[UnbornTao]

@mr_engineer To anyone.

Edited October 19, 2022 by UnbornTao

[Ulax]

@mr_engineer Dude I think I get the some of the points you are trying to get across, and I think there needs to be more consideration given to the aspects of the issues you touch upon.

However, I don't think the way you are going about promoting the issue is helping your cause. It seems to me the way you are communicating is more likely to polarise people against your points of view. I understand it may be a subject you feel strongly about. It seems that way to me.

However, I think its important to be conscious about how you put your message across. Otherwise, I think you'll likely be harming the very cause you want to promote.

[mr_engineer]

@Ulax Go say that to a feminist and watch their reactions. They are some of the most condescending, disrespectful people I've ever come across. None of you have the balls to give them a lecture about 'attitude'. Cuz they're so 'oppressed'. And that would be 'misogynistic'. 

All of this bullshit-talk is reserved for men in our society. Shame on the people enabling it. 

[Ulax]

@mr_engineer Dude imo if you give people lectures they tend to get more polarised against you. Do you want to complain at people or do you want to see the change you desire?

Imo, you can sit around all day complaining and saying the world should be this way or that way. I think i fucking get it. I often wish the world was another way. But, no matter how much anyone complains, the way the world is at the current moment is the way it is at the current moment. 

If you wanna bring some positive change, then imo you gotta be strategic about how you go about doing it. Imo the way you're communicating you're actually further enabling toxic feminine behaviours. The way I see you speaking seems to me to just play into toxic feminine narratives re those who call out aspects of feminism.  

[mr_engineer]

@Ulax Would you be willing to say this to feminists? The bro-talk of 'stop complaining about the world and actually do something'. Cuz I think they really need to hear it. 

[Ulax]

4 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

@Ulax Would you be willing to say this to feminists? The bro-talk of 'stop complaining about the world and actually do something'. Cuz I think they really need to hear it. 

@mr_engineer To some yes, to some no. I think it would be pointless me saying it to some feminist demographics. 

I'm not actually intending to tell you to stop complaining. Its more that it seems to me you are trying to persuade people to your viewpoint and it doesn't seem like your strategy is v effective to me. To my mind, complaining isn't an effective way of persuading people to your point of view.

[Danioover9000]

@Optimized Life

On 2022-10-18 at 0:12 AM, Optimized Life said:

Getting raped is less severe of a crime than the crime of falsely (Intentionally) accusing someone of rape 

Getting raped is a horrible traumatizing experience, but nothing is worse than spending life in jail for something you didn't commit, that is the highest tragedy.

They are both extremely bad & I'm not saying that the latter is worse to trivialize rape, I'm saying that the false penalty is so bad that's even worse than rape,  yet in the media & people's minds we don't tend to even think about this. 

We think so simplistically & archetypally of "the evil rapist pedo murderer when will we have a society without these people!!" 

Yet we don't also get horrified in shivers at the narcistic woman who falsely accuses a guy of this & that & he goes to jail for it, she should be classed in the same category as the murderer and rapist, and because she's subtle & more likely to get away with it, she's more dangerous, she's like the female savvy version of the serial killer, she steals mens lives away through lies & deceptions instead of direct violence, but it's all ultimately the same thing. 

... There's men like this too and they're equally evil however it is distinctly more dangerous for the female versions of this because she can leverage her beauty & illusory image of fragility to disarm & manipulate & to play up the victim narrative; the narcissistic woman is so dangerous she is arguably more frightening than a serial killer (Ok bit too dramatic there, but still pretty bad).  

There needs to be more of a focus & commitment to the innocent until proven guilty  too many men are abused by the system for this bias, especially black young men who lack social power & resources & more easily stereotyped by judges.  

Most men aren't rapists but a lot more people are sociopathic narcissists, who love to defame others for their own gain or petty satisfaction, there should be severe crime punishment for women & people who falsely accuse of rape, the punishment should be as strong as the rape penalty. 

I be t you this thread will be deleted or locked ... but silly af it does because I'm making some genuinely insightful points here, free speech & authenticity is important. 

   Or the thread would be locked or deleted on the grounds of your hate farming and trolling and triggering heated debates and arguing and encouraging close minded and dogmatic discourse. Nothing malicious or conspiratorial about that.

[Danioover9000]

   For example:

 

   Some vids of people telling their point of view:

 

 

 

   Are you open minded enough and willing to learn from their views?