Mens rights & the dark side of the me too movement

[Optimized Life]

Getting raped is less severe of a crime than the crime of falsely (Intentionally) accusing someone of rape 

Getting raped is a horrible traumatizing experience, but nothing is worse than spending life in jail for something you didn't commit, that is the highest tragedy.

They are both extremely bad & I'm not saying that the latter is worse to trivialize rape, I'm saying that the false penalty is so bad that's even worse than rape,  yet in the media & people's minds we don't tend to even think about this. 

We think so simplistically & archetypally of "the evil rapist pedo murderer when will we have a society without these people!!" 

Yet we don't also get horrified in shivers at the narcistic woman who falsely accuses a guy of this & that & he goes to jail for it, she should be classed in the same category as the murderer and rapist, and because she's subtle & more likely to get away with it, she's more dangerous, she's like the female savvy version of the serial killer, she steals mens lives away through lies & deceptions instead of direct violence, but it's all ultimately the same thing. 

... There's men like this too and they're equally evil however it is distinctly more dangerous for the female versions of this because she can leverage her beauty & illusory image of fragility to disarm & manipulate & to play up the victim narrative; the narcissistic woman is so dangerous she is arguably more frightening than a serial killer (Ok bit too dramatic there, but still pretty bad).  

There needs to be more of a focus & commitment to the innocent until proven guilty  too many men are abused by the system for this bias, especially black young men who lack social power & resources & more easily stereotyped by judges.  

Most men aren't rapists but a lot more people are sociopathic narcissists, who love to defame others for their own gain or petty satisfaction, there should be severe crime punishment for women & people who falsely accuse of rape, the punishment should be as strong as the rape penalty. 

I be t you this thread will be deleted or locked ... but silly af it does because I'm making some genuinely insightful points here, free speech & authenticity is important. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Optimized Life

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Optimized Life said:

Getting raped is less severe of a crime than the crime of falsely (Intentionally) accusing someone of rape 

Lol

Such insight!

Edited October 18, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Tyler Robinson]

I was raped a few months ago.  It wasn't severe. 

 

 

[Tyler Robinson]

But this applies to any crime. Why just rape? 

If you were falsely accused of robbery, then you might be sentenced a couple of years in prison. 

Yea spending time in prison would be much worse than the crime of theft. 

Your argument literally applies to every crime. 

Why is rape so special? 

 

[aurum]

@Optimized Life

Check your male biases on this one. Your post lacks balance and is one sided.

The whole reason there is a push to believe women in these circumstances is because for so long women have not been. There has historically been little to no accountability on this issue.

I’m not saying false accusations are impossible. We still need a justice system and for things to go through the courts so we don’t succumb to witch hunts. But it’s not hard to see why the MeToo movement has been necessary.

[Ulax]

@Optimized Life Brother i empathise with your viewpoints, and I think you bring up something that needs to be discussed. I think the issue of false accusations is not given enough consideration and also many aspects of men's rights issues are not given adequate consideration.

However, I do think you have jumped to a conclusion regarding the effect of rape compared to the effect of a life in prison for a crime you didn't commit. I think the effect of both is going to really depend on quite a few different factors that are at play, i.e. victim support, mental health prior to incident etc. And, I think I'm just making educated guesses with those examples, would need to research it more I think.

But, I'd recommend thinking about the rapes in the situation like the toybox killer's. If you look at the accounts of the rapes that happened there, I think you may have a different perspective. I do want to warn you that I think reading events of that case will likely be really disturbing.

[Ulax]

@Optimized Life Also, I think Leo's most recent vid, about when the left goes too far, might help you feel more welcome on the forum. Also, I think it will help you feel less polarised with the other side.

[Thought Art]

There’s a lot of bad things that can happen in life. Having your life ruined from rape, or a false accusation sucks. However your life, reputation or mental health gets harmed is unfortunate. 
 

I think going to jail and being labeled a rapist by your community is pretty bad. But, so is being raped and then not believed and labeled a liar or trouble maker. Both can ruin your life. A ruined life is an unfortunate reality some people must face. 
 

Obviously losing your freedom due to a false accusation is near murder, maybe worse because you likely will experience a lot of psychological suffering. 

The whole discussion around consent, boundaries, what’s rape and what isn’t rape is confusing and scary for lot of men. The possibility of being accused of rape when you don’t think you raped scares a lot of people. I know that may sound absurd but… I think this is true anyway. Just look at people new to pick up for example. People are so scared of even talking to a girl in case they get attacked or police called on them. 
 

So too does the possibility of being raped and then all the strugggles and difficulties that come with the aftermath of trying to get justice. 

The Me Too movement and people being able to come forward is important. But, just like literally all areas of human life there is good and bad, truth and untruth and it’s messy. 
 

This is a painful difficult area. Be patient and allow recontextualization to happen. 
 

There’s so much work to be done in this area… relationships, sex, consent etc…

Being a man and a woman literally come with different risks. It’s not going to be perfectly symmetrical. There’s plenty of asymmetrical elements in these social dynamics at play.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Thought Art

[Joyboy]

2 hours ago, Tyler Robinson said:

Getting raped, not be believed, not reaching  a conviction due to lack of evidence, being blamed and shamed for the rape, having to recount the rape in court under embarrassing scrutiny and then for the rest of your life, being considered DAMAGED GOODS by all future dates and never have the possibility of receiving love from a man because all men think of you as unworthy and violated and you live in shame forever. Now that's much worse. 

 

Just want to change 1 word, all men think or you think? Or maybe there is only you alone in this universe

[actuallyenlightened]

The real issue for rape cases is that the court almost never knows for certain what exactly happened. In an ideal world where that is the case, then sure punish women who make malicious accusations (of course they wouldn't be in court in the first place then because they would know that the system is perfect lol); I'm sure most people would have no problem with that. But the situation here is that guilty people get away and innocent people get locked up.. but that system is a lot better than no system. Even if rape did occur, there may not be enough evidence to convict anyone. Doesn't mean they are lying - just that the court isn't certain enough. I don't know how the court could know for certain if a rape allegation is made with malicious intent. 

Edited October 18, 2022 by actuallyenlightened

[mr_engineer]

Most of the guys who are on board with the 'believe all women' trend are white-knight soy-boy cucks. Who think that doing it is going to get them pussy. 

[Tyler Robinson]

2 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

Most of the guys who are on board with the 'believe all women' trend are white-knight soy-boy cucks. Who think that doing it is going to get them pussy. 

You are a champion. You get it. Telling the truth as it should be told. Thanks. 

[Optimized Life]

9 hours ago, Tyler Robinson said:

I was raped a few months ago.  It wasn't severe. 

Very sorry to hear that & I hope you meet only kind men going forward. I'd be interested to understand the context of how it happened for my mental model & pattern awareness (alleyway, house party spiked drink ect..) But pardon my insensitivity as you may not want to share that. DM If you want to share your story. 

You guys have brought up an important point : Getting raped & no one believing you & being called a liar is also tragic af as well, and I empathize with any woman who had to deal with that. 

The point of this thread was not really about what's worse but just to highlight the issue of false accusations and how It's something that people should be aware of in this society.

Yes you are right, it's not just with rape but happens with false murder accusations too. 

9 hours ago, Ulax said:

@Optimized Life Brother i empathise with your viewpoints, and I think you bring up something that needs to be discussed. I think the issue of false accusations is not given enough consideration and also many aspects of men's rights issues are not given adequate consideration.

But, I'd recommend thinking about the rapes in the situation like the toybox killer's. If you look at the accounts of the rapes that happened there, I think you may have a different perspective. I do want to warn you that I think reading events of that case will likely be really disturbing.

You are spot on bro, many aspects of men's rights issues are not given adequate consideration, I thinkk this is why mens self help & lifestyle channels are booming. Although I won't pretend, self help & mens lifestyle will always be niche, it will help random lucky people who become aware of it like me, but it will never catch the bulk of men who are destined to live a miserable pointless & lonely life of shame & starved of all forms of joy. 

But yh I admit my qualitative comparison was subjective and partly done just for emphasis, all these scenarios are all bad but I still stand that public consciousness should expand their archetypal imaginations for common tragedies of injustice (instead of just see man as merely aggressive perpetrators or "patriarchs". 

I will still stand that generally speaking feminism has become distorted into a toxic ideology in the 1st world & needs to be scrutinized.

...  I have read the long Ted Bundy Wikipedia article which was terrifying.

9 hours ago, aurum said:

The whole reason there is a push to believe women in these circumstances is because for so long women have not been. There has historically been little to no accountability on this issue.

So on the one hand I understand contextually that there needed to be a "push" to listen to women because genuine abuse & rape was constantly ignored, makes sense. 

However I don't likke this wording for individual contexts ; within the case (not just the judge but jury father family friends whoever) all these people should NOT be biased towards a push to believe the women, they should see the case & the evidence objectively at hand without any preconceptions & then decide, there shouldn't be a push or bias to either believe or not believe.

Unfortunately I have masturbated today to porn & binged on ice cream and sugar, I also made too many micro decis, ions depleting my Neurotransmitters & multi tasked too much, in total turning myself into a useless, brainless stupid piece of jelly and I'm unable to process information nor even read all the comments or use my brain right now. 

I will answer more comments in several days when the non toxic diet & no fap intellect is back, there has been more nuanced responses than expected here.

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by Optimized Life

[something_else]

2 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

Most of the guys who are on board with the 'believe all women' trend are white-knight soy-boy cucks. Who think that doing it is going to get them pussy. 

My friend, less time on the internet, more time in the real world

That is what you need

[Optimized Life]

8 minutes ago, something_else said:

My friend, less time on the internet, more time in the real world

That is what you need

He has got a point though ... There is a specific category of men (Who I've noticed in direct experience multiple times forming accurate neural node) who are not only willing to believe women no matter what, but will act, without any justification to defend them in order to play up the hero identity and maybe get some pussy out of it. There are also men with boyfriends who will unnecessarily act defensive over their girlfriend as an excuse to bully other men, maybe the other guy literally just said "hi" and asked for her number, but maybe the girl is addicted to playing victim and loves the attention she is on the darkside of feminist ideology or she is just a narcisist and in this context the boyfriend will co-opt the modern bias to instantly believe women & shame men against women, I think that posting any shameful post about how the "guy did this" without legal proof and evidence should be a crime, as once the fake post is out the damage is done & it's too late, humans have bias called belief preservation bias which explains the irreparable damage of rumours despite nullifying evidence.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Optimized Life

[Tyler Robinson]

2 minutes ago, Optimized Life said:

 

The point of this thread was not really about what's worse but just to highlight the issue of false accusations and how It's something that people should be aware of in this society.

 

There is no absolute solution to this. Just like there is no absolute solution to rape, murder, earthquake and famine. Life is unfair. We can give justice to rape victims but we can't heal their trauma or undo what happened to them. 

The best that a society can do is to sensitize people to the effects of false accusations just like society needs to be sensitized that respecting woman is key and raping them is a bad thing. 

People act in sociopathic ways and this is just an indication of a brutal society that isn't healing, there is lack of love. 

Meanwhile better investigations, using DNA, analyzing a person's criminal record can help reduce false accusations somewhat, not entirely. We also have lie detector tests. That's not much beyond that because rape is a crime that doesn't leave a lot of evidence if there is no semen or semen was washed off. Lot of rapists tell their victims to take a long shower to get rid of evidence. 

Some victims don't come forward due to fear and that causes loss of essential evidence due to time lapse. It's all very complicated. 

I would say use caution. Don't get drunk with a woman. If you touch her accidentally she can use your presence as evidence of rape because she was drunk and doesn't remember anything. 

Mostly be around women in open  places like a restaurant or park so you'll always have  witnesses. 

Have a clean record. No violations. So it gets easier to prove your case. 

Women who falsely accuse could be prostitutes who didn't get enough money, just low quality women who are like gold diggers. Don't date such women. Especially if they are the victim playing type. Look for signals. I have sometimes come across such women but rarely but their behaviors are generally a red flag. They're usually the types who expect the guy to pay for sex etc. Like Amber Heard type. I mean even she worked as a stripper. Generally those are the ones. 

A woman with healthy self respect who doesn't have a high body count would be less likely to do such things to men. 

Also women who very disgruntled all the time, in a sense she makes a big deal out of things you never did, she misunderstands your intentions all the time, never stays chill is also likely to do things just to hurt you, hold a grudge and then use it against you. If she is the type who always goes around telling everyone even the littlest things you did in a relationship and acts offended all the time over things that don't matter at all, I would say that she is a likely candidate who can make up nonsense for her own ego and privilege. 

So beware of such women. Not much can be done beyond this. 

 

[Optimized Life]

12 minutes ago, something_else said:

My friend, less time on the internet, more time in the real world

That is what you need

But as a counter point YES : Fuck the internet unless it's for work / productivity / learning skills. 

And always try to be social and out at least for hours. 

Exercise is not cringe. Sugar isn't that cool, huge shame on myself for spending money & eating sugar today, huge fucking shame, could've done exercize instead, fuckking idiot.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Optimized Life

[Optimized Life]

9 hours ago, Ulax said:

@Optimized Life Also, I think Leo's most recent vid, about when the left goes too far, might help you feel more welcome on the forum. Also, I think it will help you feel less polarised with the other side. 

I'm not welcome on this forum & I never tried to be. I was never welcome anywhere, that's why I decide to become a leader. I'll start my own forum, businesses ect... eventually build my own city, leaders are always welcome when they provide enough value. 

I resonate more with more masculine & competitive smaller communities, I think a lot of guys are cutting themselves short by ONLY being on here, it has some value, but when I only used this place it was a giant oppurtunity cost to more practical, creative productive niche communities out there. I am open minded therefore I will use a range of platform space based on where my intuition guides me, but only staying in 1 forum just creates this silode bubble just like people who only listen to 1 youtuber & stay in 1 city too long.

But no self help youtuber will admit that to you including Leo, because they are competing $$$$$, but that's the truth everyone needs.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Optimized Life

[Ulax]

1 hour ago, Optimized Life said:

You are spot on bro, many aspects of men's rights issues are not given adequate consideration, I thinkk this is why mens self help & lifestyle channels are booming. Although I won't pretend, self help & mens lifestyle will always be niche, it will help random lucky people who become aware of it like me, but it will never catch the bulk of men who are destined to live a miserable pointless & lonely life of shame & starved of all forms of joy. 

But yh I admit my qualitative comparison was subjective and partly done just for emphasis, all these scenarios are all bad but I still stand that public consciousness should expand their archetypal imaginations for common tragedies of injustice (instead of just see man as merely aggressive perpetrators or "patriarchs". 

I will still stand that generally speaking feminism has become distorted into a toxic ideology in the 1st world & needs to be scrutinized.

...  I have read the long Ted Bundy Wikipedia article which was terrifying.

@Optimized Life I don't think dudes who had loving upbringings with a healthy sense of direction in their lives will necessarily need self-help to live enjoyable lives. However, I  think that for many men some self-help is important. 

[mr_engineer]

1 hour ago, something_else said:

My friend, less time on the internet, more time in the real world

That is what you need

Too much truth for you?!