What is the difference between the enlightened and insane? (with examples)

[Thought Art]

@Leo Gura What do you think? 
 

There’s a good book called “Opening the Dragon Gate” about a young teen being trained to be a Toasit wizard. They taught through intense practices to have him gain direct insights into their knowledge. When they killed him (but he was still alive) he went through an ungrounded couple of months. But the wizards knew it was happening because they too went through it. 
 

Opening the Dragon Gate: Making of a Modern Toaist Wizard

But, like… if someone becomes ungrounded and never makes it out well. Obviously you have an ungrounded person on your hands. I mean, what do you want me to say?

There’s no guarantees in this work. When you open your mind up… shit can get messy for awhile. Plus, mental filters, past experiences, etc can collide. 

There’s so many weird twisted spiritual ideologies out there right now. I know for me this is my first time being alive. So when, ego, magical thinking, spiritual new age BS ideas and radical open mindedness connect with a sense of desperation … shit can go wrong…

Edited October 18, 2022 by Thought Art

[Twenty]

Its easy

.Give 3% of everything that you have to everyone and you wont ever be in a not 

shared reality or simply do not encounter those people who are not you/yours. The smaller you circles the better. Even if they force you you should have the people around you as a barrier or filter. But this didnt happen to me because I didnt tell everyone around me the 3% so you should be able to.    Keep your reality. In fact , it would be better if you tell everything rather than having your r destroyed. This is what ive known. I should tell evvvvvvveerything that I learn to my mom (wtf?) In order for it to be valid .this is the standard. (Wtf?) But thats what ive known. Because apparently my sc/wti sent something to them or all the inspo /wtvr to them and not me. So we are disconnected. I didnt know that I had to share everything to x&z thats a new thing/(a stupid thing) . 

[kamwalker]

I feel sorry for the kid in that video, I'm glad he was able to find something to ground himself. However he clearly states he felt mentally ill and still watched Leo's videos despite the disclaimers.

There is definitely a fine line you feel like you have to ride when contemplating life seriously. There have been plenty of moments I have questioned my sanity throughout this process. But I feel like that's actually normal and a part of growing through life. When you experience something new it can be scary and you have to adapt to it. New does not have to mean bad. People get solidified in a way of seeing the world and they never break out of that their whole life simply due to fear. 

Ultimately you just have to do whatever gives you a good life. I still have healthy family and friend relationships, a job that I mostly feel good about, try to live consciously. If I felt like my spiritual practice was causing me to lose my grip with reality to the point that I was sabotaging any of those things I would have to take a step back and re-evaluate. 

[Gesundheit2]

I think most of the times, it's both at the same time at the time it's occurring. Altered states often carry spiritual insights within them, but they're not necessarily always true or beneficial to follow. It's our job to seek a better clarity in order to be able to determine what is what for ourselves, which is a lot of work, and it can be hard to complete - depending on the degree and type of the experiences, without the proper guidance or settings. It's similar to the difference between waking up and cleaning up. You see this whole new side of reality that others can't see, but can you integrate it in your life? That's what differentiates the awake from the ill. But of course it's not so black and white. It's often a long process of constantly weeding out illusions, delusions, and confusions. Some ancient mainstream cultures used to differentiate between God's revelations and the possession with evil spirits. They didn't know it was both. It starts as possession and ends in God. But most people are too simple to see behind the scenes of what that realized person has gone through. They only want to see the end result based on their distorted fantasies of what a realized person should look like. I did not know I had been possessed for several years until after I "completed my journey". It's not like the spirits are a person with a mouth that can talk. They're energies that sit within your body and take on control instead of your original conscious self, which gets put on pause, so to speak. You lose control of yourself and they replace you, although I'm exactly not sure which one occurs first. It's hard to know, cuz they're both you, just different sides. Carl Jung called this unconscious force "the shadow". But at the end of the day, if you allow it to work through you, and if you somehow manage to understand it, it will purify you and then eventually let you go. That's my experience at least.

[Proserpina]

@Gesundheit2 That's so interesting. 

[BipolarGrowth]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

I mean mental content, ideas, thoughts. The mind can be totally empty and there is still experience, you know that perfectly i think 

I wouldn’t go far as to say totally empty. When I said that, I was also talking more along the lines of Mind rather than mind. The idea that you have a mind without conscious ideas and thoughts is possible, but there is still plenty going on mentally usually just at subtler levels. 

[Carl-Richard]

22 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

I wouldn’t go far as to say totally empty. When I said that, I was also talking more along the lines of Mind rather than mind. The idea that you have a mind without conscious ideas and thoughts is possible, but there is still plenty going on mentally usually just at subtler levels. 

Meta-cognitive/self-reflective/articulated/conscious/explicit/declarative mind vs. perceptual/instinctive/inarticulated/unconscious/implicit/procedural mind.

That's a lot of words.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[Proserpina]

I don't get this massive differentiation and othering between those who are diagnosed and those who are not.   There's really not much of a difference. They are pretty normal. I've lived with them.  They just have some hiccups now and then that we work on together.  Sometimes I think all these 'enlightened' people and mystics are too far up their own ass.  To be blunt. 

[BipolarGrowth]

@Carl-Richard lots of words, and still much of the content possible isn’t covered very directly. The main point is that minds are not empty of content, and to think they are is simply to not have looked at the subtleties which can be noticed to be operating. The mind sense door has WAY more to it than discursive thought and images. Anyway, we’re far from the original topic of the thread at this point. 

Edited October 18, 2022 by BipolarGrowth

[Chrisd]

5 hours ago, Tyler Robinson said:

I cannot imagine a person being completely insane. Impossible. 

 

Me neither

[Kshantivadin]

@Loba ❤️?

[Chrisd]

17 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

These distinctions are bogus.

As I explained in my State Of Consciousness Is Everything video, everything is a state of consciousness and there are many kinds and degrees of awakened states.

There is no such thing as "enlightenment". This is one of the biggest errors of modern spirituality.

I like this. No such thing as enlightenment. But there are radically different states of consciousness and functioning in consciousness. 

[Chrisd]

16 hours ago, Proserpina said:

@LSD-Rumi 

It’s  not really the ‘delusions’ that is indicative of lack of enlightenment.  I’ve lived with people with schizophrenia and have schizoaffective.  It’s 100% chill and happiness factor.  That’s the difference between me and them generally.  I have many ‘strange’ and quirky beliefs and have had strange spiritual experiences but I was and am always chill. 

I'm delusional and chill at the same time.  

Edited October 18, 2022 by Chrisd

[gettoefl]

the latter you have the mind the former the mind has you

[Yarco]

The desire to share their hidden or secret knowledge unsolicited to strangers is a big indicator for me.

A mentally ill person can't help themselves but to approach you at the bus stop and tell you the truth about the nature of reality, how you're being lied to, and generally info-dump on you with no social awareness of weird they seem, and how uncomfortable they're making you feel.

If some chick at a party jumps from talking to me about mundane everyday topics, to how she channels aliens and has secret knowledge about the future, after just a couple of minutes of meeting her, I'm going to err on the side of mental illness.

An enlightened person almost has an unwritten code where they don't talk about it unless asked, or a person seems advanced enough that they'll understand. Similar to how freemasons have a code where they don't invite people, you have to ask to join. They have no desire or interest in converting or convincing you.

Where there's some crossover is the period when someone first becomes enlightened. The handful of people I know who are / claim to be spiritually enlightened, were all institutionalized in mental hospitals because their family/friends thought they had suddenly become bipolar or schizophrenia.

[gettoefl]

39 minutes ago, Yarco said:

The desire to share their hidden or secret knowledge unsolicited to strangers is a big indicator for me.

A mentally ill person can't help themselves but to approach you at the bus stop and tell you the truth about the nature of reality, how you're being lied to, and generally info-dump on you with no social awareness of weird they seem, and how uncomfortable they're making you feel.

If some chick at a party jumps from talking to me about mundane everyday topics, to how she channels aliens and has secret knowledge about the future, after just a couple of minutes of meeting her, I'm going to err on the side of mental illness.

An enlightened person almost has an unwritten code where they don't talk about it unless asked, or a person seems advanced enough that they'll understand. Similar to how freemasons have a code where they don't invite people, you have to ask to join. They have no desire or interest in converting or convincing you.

Where there's some crossover is the period when someone first becomes enlightened. The handful of people I know who are / claim to be spiritually enlightened, were all institutionalized in mental hospitals because their family/friends thought they had suddenly become bipolar or schizophrenia.

i say enlightenment is the knowing that the other is living in full truth and harmony, they don't need changing saving fixing ... they are enjoying the level of consciousness they have just like god does ... every person is a wow a wonder a marvel a miracle an enchanting masterpiece of the what is to be embraced elicited enjoyed

[caspex]

From the outside you cannot tell whether someone is highly realized or insane. Only difference you can find is experiential. I haven't been insane but I have indeed experienced a borderline experience to it. And another one of possession/DID whatever you wanna call it. 

Only major difference I can make out is that in insane persons the individual mind is active, interfering, and often chaotic (either due to otherworldly beings interfering with insane person's mind or other, more researched causes). While in realized persons the individual mind is aligned and working in tandem with reality's mind. 

Hence why Insane persons are less functional, while the Realized, if they want, can be highly functional.

The confusion between insane and realized persons would be caused due to insane persons confusing depictions of realized states as their insane states which would be depicted the same way using our language. Our language leaves out a few key dimensions in explaining the difference and therefore causes such confusion.

Human language is very ambiguous. You can call yourself insane right now because you are not aware of reality's true nature. But when you are aware of reality's nature, you are also insane, but in a different way. This 'different way' is an example of the dimensions language leaves out.

The reason the line between Insanity and Enlightenment is thin is because the line's thin between everything, if it's there at all. And while on the path of awakening if one falls into traps and fucks up, one still ends up leaving the traditional paradigm but not towards a truer one. And what's 'truer' is not anything objective.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Swarnim

[Twenty]

The enlightened had the biggest perspective (Omnicient) the insane didn't. (Had spread all over/being fragmented). 

[tuku747]

21 hours ago, UpperMaster said:

What about this, lets say you take a psychedelic and you have visions, do you call them hallucinations or an enlightenment experience?

 

Like you remain functional after the experience.

I think I really started getting caught up on this. Some ppl on the forum say they had an enlightenment experience by just taking a bunch of mushrooms for the first time. Is that really enlightenment, seems like just a realization while high. If thats enlightenment, then contemplation could be enlightenment no?

You don't need drugs at all to have "enlightenment" experiences. You just need curiosity, and faith.
Divine realization can strike at any time. The main use of psychedelics in this case is to accelerate personal growth, though it is not in any case necessary.

This is because you can be "high" naturally, and enter a heightened state of consciousness, just by meditating, or
Any number of activities that can bring you great joy and awareness, if you're open to It, can trigger these realizations.
Indeed, this happens all the time. State of consciousness fluctuates all the time without drugs.

Edited October 18, 2022 by tuku747

[RMQualtrough]

Today I became conscious of the fact I'm actually Mickey Mouse living on the planet Saturn. I live with my girlfriend Minnie and our dog Pluto. My best friend is Goofy, who is a dog... And for some reason Goofy seems to be okay with me enslaving other members of his species. Why can Goofy talk and walk on two legs while Pluto cannot. Is Goofy a genius dog or is Pluto simply handicapped? If Pluto is handicapped, is it morally wrong to treat him like a pet?

These are questions I pondered from my bathtub of awakening. As I shoved a turkey baster filled with toad venom right up my asshole.

This is what enlightenment is all about. Forget cuckold LOSERS like Buddha. Buddha never awoke to the fact he's actually a Mickey Mouse like me.