What is the difference between the enlightened and insane? (with examples)

[Thought Art]

Also, to be honest

I have no fucking idea what reality is, enlightenment is or what’s going on. It’s very mysterious. 
 

I don’t really understand any of my trips, and my understanding of every area of epistemology and understanding is thin. Even though I’m getting really good at Qigong I still have a very newbie understanding of Qi as it’s incredibly deep…  

Edited October 17, 2022 by Thought Art

[Proserpina]

@LSD-Rumi 

16 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

I am just saying what applies to 90% of schizophrenic patients. They are lost in chaotic delusions.

It’s  not really the ‘delusions’ that is indicative of lack of enlightenment.  I’ve lived with people with schizophrenia and have schizoaffective.  It’s 100% chill and happiness factor.  That’s the difference between me and them generally.  I have many ‘strange’ and quirky beliefs and have had strange spiritual experiences but I was and am always chill. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Proserpina

[Breakingthewall]

45 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is a myth you invented, within a certain limited state of consciousness. Exactly the error I warn against.

But thinking about it carefully, I agree in some way. all are states of consciousness. Desirelessness is a state of consciousness, it is when you perceive that reality is exactly as it should be. this does not mean that you are enlightened in the sense that it will be something permanent. there are people, the monks, who pursue that state of consciousness by working hard on it. I guess they can get it but always circumstantially. if their determination wavers they will return to desire. so enlightenment is one more state. But that state is when the natural awakening can happen.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[LSD-Rumi]

20 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Did anyone watch that guys full video? It sounds like he was having mental health problems prior to watching Leo? I didn’t finish it 

It seems he has been going through some solid spiritual experiences even before watching Leo. He then labelled them as psychosis. 

[Tyler Robinson]

Even an insane person can be enlightened.

However being enlightened doesn't mean that they won't continue to act insane. 

Psychedelics doesn't change that. 

So literally no difference. 

 

[Thought Art]

4 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

It seems he has been going through some solid spiritual experiences even before watching Leo. He then labelled them as psychosis. 

I couldn’t tell to be honest. Either he was really dealing with psychosis or he’s going through an ego backlash 

@Tyler Robinson I don’t think this is true. Also, enlightenment isn’t really a singular thing. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Thought Art

[Tyler Robinson]

1 minute ago, Thought Art said:

I couldn’t tell to be honest. Either he was really dealing with psychosis or he’s going through an ego backlash 

@Tyler Robinson I don’t think this is true. Also, enlightenment isn’t really a singular thing. 

Some people are enlightened. But they could be insane. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference. They can awaken to the truth. I don't think that mental illness can block them from awakening. 

However enlightenment is not a cure. It's simply a spiritual path. 

It doesn't matter at the end of the day. 

Just because someone is insane doesn't mean that they can't be trusted. They can still act normal between their episodes. 

 

[LSD-Rumi]

5 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

I couldn’t tell to be honest. Either he was really dealing with psychosis or he’s going through an ego backlash 

 

Yeah, he might convinced himself that he is crazy and need to hospitalized.

[Leo Gura]

45 minutes ago, Proserpina said:

I agree.  Except with the functional part.  It can be difficult to function when you are meeting strange entities (some harmful).  You can look mentally ill in terms of functionality (not in terms of happiness or chill). Mindfulness easily helps but not when you’re a newb.  But society doesn’t care about newbs. 

Meeting strange entities is not Awakening, it's something else. And if meeting strange entities makes you not functional, that's boardering on mental illness.

43 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

True, i invented because i never became enlightened. then it is a mental construction based on guesswork. that doesn't mean it's not accurate 

No, that's not what I am saying.

[Aaron p]

I heard a cool quote one time can't remember who said it but sounded good.

 

"The waters that the psychotic drowns in are the same waters the mystic swims in."

[Proserpina]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Meeting strange entities is not Awakening, it's something else. And if meeting strange entities makes you not functional, that's boardering on mental illness.

I don’t believe it’s so cut and dry. My awakenings occurred along side meeting entities.  It’s a part of awakening for some.  And meeting entities can be overwhelming in the beginning.  I mean, are people not allowed some time to integrate?

[Thought Art]

@Tyler Robinson For me, enlightenment and sanity have to go hand in hand. 

If you are insane, what can you possibility know about truth? Your mind doesn’t even function properly to begin with.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Thought Art

[BipolarGrowth]

PM me if you want to know an in-depth answer. The short answer is that people who have abnormal neurology will naturally be thrown into radical states of consciousness. For most of these people, the radical states are unskillful and unhelpful. For a rare few, they can essentially be a psychedelic in your back pocket you might say. These neurological differences can certainly speed up the awakening process. Mania and depression as well as other common states that occur for the neurologically uncommon people map remarkably closely to the stages of insight in Theravada Buddhism and a bit less closely in plenty of other spiritual traditions I’ve come across. 
 

Also, being verifiably clinically insane while also having access to deep spiritual truth and realization will lead to more radical states than a neurotypical person having the same spiritual understanding 100% of the time. The issue is that a person in such a state will not only be misunderstood because the people around them are not awake, but they will also be misunderstood because their brains are naturally capable of producing states of consciousness even an awake yet neurotypical person is not going to be able to access. This all leads to a very easy misinterpretation. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by BipolarGrowth

[Breakingthewall]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No, that's not what I am saying.

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

 

So what did you mean? 

[Tyler Robinson]

3 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Tyler Robinson For me, enlightenment and sanity have to go hand in hand. 

If you are insane, what can you possibility know about truth? Your mind doesn’t even function properly to begin with.

This is a myth. Insane people aren't insane all the time or they would have ended up dead. 

 

[Breakingthewall]

18 minutes ago, Aaron p said:

I heard a cool quote one time can't remember who said it but sounded good.

 

"The waters that the psychotic drowns in are the same waters the mystic swims in."

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

 

the quote sounds good but the true mystic has a mind empty of content, in which the truth manifests itself, and the psychotic has a mind full of shit where nothing but his shit penetrates

[Hojo]

knowing god is knowing that god is insane ! God is madness its just trying to get itself to not be scared of the madness

Edited October 17, 2022 by Hojo

[Thought Art]

@Tyler Robinson Just because you have some survival process doesn’t mean you are sane.  How many insane people are insane one minute and not the next? I don’t fully grasp what you are trying to say. 
 

There a plenty of crazy homeless people in my city. Honestly, I’m starting to realize how crazy many people are in the world. There’s a lot of weird mental health and ideas out there.

I even question Leo’s sanity and integrity. I really don’t trust anyone’s mind or even my own. 
 

Because even sane people have mountains of self deception, and inaccurate perception.  People are wrong all the damn time yet, they survive.

I don’t know… enlightenment, what is this word even meaning? Is it even a thing? I personally just don’t think a mentally unstable person can be in the truth. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Thought Art

[BipolarGrowth]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

the quote sounds good but the true mystic has a mind empty of content, in which the truth manifests itself, and the psychotic has a mind full of shit where nothing but his shit penetrates

There is no such thing as a mind without content… Truth can manifest in an infinite number of appearances, and it certainly isn’t the case that enlightenment only is accessible to standard human brain function. That is laughable to the highest degree. If enlightenment is related to the structure of and nature of what is actual, this isn’t going to be limited to a tiny range of appearances. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by BipolarGrowth

[Tyler Robinson]

Just now, Thought Art said:

@Tyler Robinson Just because you have some survival process doesn’t mean you are sane.  How many insane people are insane one minute and not the next? I don’t fully grasp what you are trying to say. 
 

There a plenty of crazy homeless people in my city. Honestly, I’m starting to realize how crazy many people are in the world. There’s a lot of weird mental health and ideas out there.

Insanity is on different levels and often unpredictable and episodic. 

If you're talking about someone who is in a mental asylum, then they can't be capable of enlightenment because they don't exist in reality at all..