Green Flags (please I really need help with this)

[Tyler Robinson]

My biggest struggle with people is that I'm always running into people who I can never trust. 

Their emotions aren't genuine. They aren't sincere. They don't mean what they say. They say one thing but they don't really feel that way in their heart. 

It causes me immense frustration because whatever I say to someone comes directly from my heart. So when I'm trying to help someone, I really mean it. I don't say it to impress. 

How Will I know that someone is being genuine with me? That they really mean what they say and they are being authentic with their intent. 

I'm tired and fed up constantly dealing with inauthentic people who present themselves as well meaning or well intentioned but later turn out to be phony. 

This is the usual pattern with the men I date. 

I'm bad at screening sincerity in people because I often take people at face value 

What should I look for while screening people for authentic intent? What tools or strategies. 

What are the green flags for detecting authenticity? 

Please. I really really need help with this. 

 

[Arthogaan]

If you start to be a master of yourself and be happy just by yourself, and you will let go of the idea that you need a relationship to be happy -> then natural intelligence will come.

Your lack/neediness covers your natural intuition. When you are fully self-sufficient it is much easier to spot little red/green flags. 
 

[flowboy]

4 hours ago, Tyler Robinson said:

What tools or strategies. 

What are the green flags for detecting authenticity? 

People who are good at spotting authentic intent don't use tools or strategies. What makes you think you should?

 

The reason there's no tools, strategies or tricks, is because the only tool you need is already in your possession - intuition.

Everyone has one, and whether you call it a gut feeling or intuition or inner wisdom - it's ALWAYS there.

HOWEVER:

some people have grown up in a situation where the only way to survive, was to ignore one's gut feeling.

A deeply ingrained, unconscious pattern of ignoring one's own authenticity gets established, when the parents are not authentic or honest or trustworthy or unpredictable, or when the parents demand from the child to deny its own needs for free expression, love, attention, and exploration, and sacrifice that to serve the parent's need of self-importance, care, or attention.

Put simply: growing up with an unsafe parent, makes the child gaslight itself into burying and ignoring its intuitive sense.

After all: if you're dependent for your life on your parent, you are completely helpless, how can you process the information that your gut feeling says that your mother or father is untrustworthy or uncaring or lying, or even dangerous?

That is too much to handle. It's a choice between something that feels like death (knowing your caregivers aren't safe), or survival but burying the intuition.

This is how a child comes to gaslight itself.

This is how adult women keep picking the wrong partner over and over again, end up with untrustworthy men who lie, manipulate or even physically abuse.

In the beginning they say all the right things and all seems rosy.

Then, they turn out to have the same untrustworthy or abusive dark side that all the others had.

How does it happen?

Women possess the most sophisticated lie detectors.

However, some have learnt to turn it off, as a response to childhood trauma.

These women are desperately and eagerly looking for a man who will finally be trustworthy, because by their mid-twenties they have had a lot of betrayals already.

This desperation and vulnerability is detectable by untrustworthy men, who also have childhood trauma, who have been misshapen by their defective parents into people for whom manipulation is the only way they know how to get love.

Traumatized and imprinted with the unhealthy psyche of their own parents, perhaps full-blown narcissists, they smell this desperation and vulnerability and feel attracted to the signs of this.

The women, cut off from intuition through childhood trauma, don't see the red flags and feel attracted to the words and manipulations that these men have learnt to say, while not hearing what their gut is screaming.

And so the childhood trauma dance continues.

 

Here's the good news: it's possible to learn to listen to yourself again.

Access to intuition can be re-established.

This is what you should focus on, if you want to solve this problem.

Becoming highly intuitive.

Doing shadow work, Primal Therapy or other trauma therapy is probably very helpful to clear out the toxicity that is blocking your inner knowing.

 

[Tyler Robinson]

2 hours ago, flowboy said:

People who are good at spotting authentic intent don't use tools or strategies. What makes you think you should?

 

The reason there's no tools, strategies or tricks, is because the only tool you need is already in your possession - intuition.

Everyone has one, and whether you call it a gut feeling or intuition or inner wisdom - it's ALWAYS there.

HOWEVER:

some people have grown up in a situation where the only way to survive, was to ignore one's gut feeling.

A deeply ingrained, unconscious pattern of ignoring one's own authenticity gets established, when the parents are not authentic or honest or trustworthy or unpredictable, or when the parents demand from the child to deny its own needs for free expression, love, attention, and exploration, and sacrifice that to serve the parent's need of self-importance, care, or attention.

Put simply: growing up with an unsafe parent, makes the child gaslight itself into burying and ignoring its intuitive sense.

After all: if you're dependent for your life on your parent, you are completely helpless, how can you process the information that your gut feeling says that your mother or father is untrustworthy or uncaring or lying, or even dangerous?

That is too much to handle. It's a choice between something that feels like death (knowing your caregivers aren't safe), or survival but burying the intuition.

This is how a child comes to gaslight itself.

This is how adult women keep picking the wrong partner over and over again, end up with untrustworthy men who lie, manipulate or even physically abuse.

In the beginning they say all the right things and all seems rosy.

Then, they turn out to have the same untrustworthy or abusive dark side that all the others had.

How does it happen?

Women possess the most sophisticated lie detectors.

However, some have learnt to turn it off, as a response to childhood trauma.

These women are desperately and eagerly looking for a man who will finally be trustworthy, because by their mid-twenties they have had a lot of betrayals already.

This desperation and vulnerability is detectable by untrustworthy men, who also have childhood trauma, who have been misshapen by their defective parents into people for whom manipulation is the only way they know how to get love.

Traumatized and imprinted with the unhealthy psyche of their own parents, perhaps full-blown narcissists, they smell this desperation and vulnerability and feel attracted to the signs of this.

The women, cut off from intuition through childhood trauma, don't see the red flags and feel attracted to the words and manipulations that these men have learnt to say, while not hearing what their gut is screaming.

And so the childhood trauma dance continues.

 

Here's the good news: it's possible to learn to listen to yourself again.

Access to intuition can be re-established.

This is what you should focus on, if you want to solve this problem.

Becoming highly intuitive.

Doing shadow work, Primal Therapy or other trauma therapy is probably very helpful to clear out the toxicity that is blocking your inner knowing.

 

I felt like you wrote everything about me word to word like a psychic. 

I'm actually really good with intuition. 

But..... 

I guess with people who manipulate me emotionally, my intuition shuts off temporarily. 

And or I numb it down subconsciously so that I don't have to believe it. 

My intuition is very acute and has often saved my life. 

I frequently get psychic premonitions about people I deeply care about where I wake up in the middle of the night realizing I should do something to avoid an unwanted outcome. 

But if I'm feeling very empathetic towards  a person, it will shut off my judgement chamber of my intuition. 

Btw I'm myself a big liar, so it's hard for me to be a lie detector since I give a green pass to most lies. I don't see a liar as a problem, I easily forgive them since I have myself been one growing up, I used to lie an awful lot to my parents, my entire childhood was learning how to lie, to the point that I became such an expert at lying that nobody would be able to tell the difference between when I was saying the truth versus when I was lying, I got bolder at it with time and much more skilful at lying effortlessly and lying almost became my second language. At the same time, I had no moral inhibitions with lying, I did not suffer guilt or remorse nor did I judge other liars as bad. I don't judge anyone who lies to me. 

My brain is wired differently so I don't think my brain would ever see lying as a problem. It doesn't bother me at all if anyone is lying to me. I simply don't see any problem with it. 

But there's an important difference. 

Although I lie an awful lot, I never lie about my intent or emotion or sentiment. I'm emotionally always completely honest. That is, my heart is always pure, it's never phony or inauthentic. I will never tell someone that I like them without actually liking them. I don't do that shit.. My heart is always in the right place, even when I'm lying. I'm not phony. 

I am not able to tell if someone is being phony. I easily get manipulated believing that someone has my best interests in their mind, later realizing that they were simply bullshitting me. 

 

 

[Tyler Robinson]

@flowboy while pondering over the question in the last few hours I made a list of what I would see as important differences between genuine and phony people. These aren't tools or strategies but these  are just broad descriptions of how genuine and phony people will differ from each other. Just general pointers. Tell me if you find my observations interesting or if you have anything to add to it. 

Genuine 

• They will not play social games 
• They will ask you back after you have reported something to them 
• They will show emotion in their eyes while you tell them how bad you feel.. Like they will cry with you. They will mirror your emotions back to you. This will be the biggest difference between someone who is phony and someone who is genuine.
• Genuine people will show a lot of emotion. They will cry. They won't be cold at all. 
• Even if the genuine person is emotional, they might not be too vocal about it. They might have deep emotions. Maybe they went hungry to bed. They didn't turn up to work on that day. 
• They won't kiss ass
• They will be bold and brave 
• They will not be sweet 
• They won't flatter 
• They will always do a follow up 
• They will be intensely loyal almost like a dog 
• These people won't look attractive 
• They won't be diplomatic 
• They will be a bit harsh. Very politically incorrect as a result of this they will be in lot of trouble socially. People will boycott them because people will not appreciate their bluntness 
• They will be a bit autistic 
• They will also be naive and gullible easily trusting Others 
• They will be Empathetic 
• They will have zero agenda 
• They will be frank about their flaws 
• They will be vulnerable to their partners 
• They won't play victim 
• They won't be interested in public impressions. 
• They will fail to attract people 
• They will be courageous 
• They will mostly be honest 
• They will do what they said they will do 
• They will keep their word
• They will have high moral integrity 
• These people will be considerate 

 

PHONY 

• PHONY people will be very icy cold distant ... They will not show much emotion at all. 
• PHONY people will flatter, play social games, people pleaser, extroverted 
• Phony people will be shallow, fake, superficial, charming, sweet, flattering, love bombing, narcissist 
• These people  look attractive 
• They will be diplomatic 
• Always playing victim because they want social attention. 
• They will be smart, clever, intelligent with a lot of foresight. 
• . They will be manipulative 
• They will operate from egoic place 
• . They will be hypocrite 
• . They will be predatory 
• . They will be two faced 
• They will people please
• They will praise publicly and apologize privately 
• They will have cult leader attributes 
• Their spirituality will be fake and designed to impress. Very grand. Elaborate. They will say big things. Nothing will be simplistic about their spirituality. Much of which they will never practice or follow. They will be the literal definition of "never practice what you preach." 
• They won't like you for your heart, they will like you for your looks or status 
• They will try to be the center of attention 
• They will act like groupies 
• They will have low self worth 
• They will have fatal self esteem 
• They will prefer to be in groups.. A tight knit group

 

[flowboy]

I don't think this list is very accurate.

But I wouldn't be able to help you make it better, because in order to determine who is genuine, I just watch a person talk for a couple seconds/minutes and then I know.

No idea how.

You need your intuition back.

Edited October 13, 2022 by flowboy

[Tyler Robinson]

2 minutes ago, flowboy said:

This won't help.

The list is a total fantasy and inaccurate.

You need your intuition back.

Ok I have been working on my trauma a lot. I have done shadow work as well. 

But I really don't know If I'm making much progress. 

 

[flowboy]

@Tyler Robinson Didn't mean to say that so harshly sorry. It's very late at night here.

 

[Tyler Robinson]

@flowboy it's okay you have a good one. You can always respond at your own ease. Thank you for taking the time to read my stuff, I highly appreciate. 

 

[flowboy]

3 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

Ok I have been working on my trauma a lot. I have done shadow work as well. 

But I really don't know If I'm making much progress. 

I know a thing or two about shadow work, you can ask me either here or in private about it, if you want.

@Sine @flume

My opinion is that the more Primal work is done, the more easily intuition should be accessible.

Question to you guys: do you think that's correct?

[flowboy]

4 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

@flowboy it's okay you have a good one. You can always respond at your own ease. Thank you for taking the time to read my stuff, I highly appreciate. 

 

So I'm always viewing everything through the lense of shadow work and Primal therapy, because I am a big believer in helping people return to their natural state, undoing all the nasty survival mechanisms they had to collect in their childhood...

BUT...

That is my bias. It's unfair of me to say that using tricks or a list to learn to recognize trustworthy people is useless, it can still be useful.

Maybe that is a pragmatic first step towards having better experiences with relationships.

It is my belief that your intuition can still help you the most, and it must be possible for you to access that, as one never really loses it.

Have you ever done parts work?

[Osaid]

"How you do one thing is how you do everything" might be a useful concept here.

Generally speaking, pay attention to how they interact with the world around them. Do they do it in a genuine way? Are they very neurotic about certain things? Close-minded? How do they treat waiters at a restaurant? How do they treat their friends? Do they act differently around other people compared to how they act around you? Do they contradict themselves a lot?

They will obviously do their best to look perfect in front of you, so pay attention to how they interact with things that aren't you.

 

[Tyler Robinson]

1 minute ago, flowboy said:

Have you ever done parts work?

Absolutely zero idea what this is. Never even heard of it until right this moment when you mentioned it

 

[Tyler Robinson]

2 minutes ago, Osaid said:

"How you do one thing is how you do everything" might be a useful concept here.

Generally speaking, pay attention to how they interact with the world around them. Do they do it in a genuine way? Are they very neurotic about certain things? Close-minded? How do they treat waiters at a restaurant? How do they treat their friends? Do they act differently around other people compared to how they act around you? Do they contradict themselves a lot?

They will obviously do their best to look perfect in front of you, so pay attention to how they interact with things that aren't you.

 

This is okayish. I'll keep this in mind. 

Actually these people are surprisingly good at treating waiters. 

Since they like to pretend to look nice..... 

[flowboy]

@Tyler Robinson

I do it with clients sometimes because it never fails to bring clarity.

Maybe it will help you reconnect to your intuition.

It should be what is remaining after the other voices have had their say.

[Tyler Robinson]

@Osaid there is one idea that popped up in my mind in the last hour that I had been pondering on this question. I had to contemplate hard. 

This idea is this - 

What if I placed myself in the shoes of the other person and then asked myself - will I. Do what they are doing if I were them? 

For example, last year I had been dealing with someone who was constantly gossiping about their lover to me behind their lover's back. I thought this person was genuine. 

Turned out they were phony as hell. 

One way I could have known this is simply asking myself - will I ever bitch about my partner behind their back to others? And my instant answer to that question was - Absolutely No. 

But that person had been engaging in this behavior. So this meant they were doing something I would never see myself doing as an authentic person. And this is a clue to not take that person as authentic. 

This is like a litmus test I came up with. 

Not greatly helpful but somewhat helpful. 

 

[Osaid]

4 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

For example, last year I had been dealing with someone who was constantly gossiping about their lover to me behind their lover's back. I thought this person was genuine. 

Turned out they were phony as hell. 

One way I could have known this is simply asking myself - will I ever bitch about my partner behind their back to others? And my instant answer to that question was - Absolutely No. 

But that person had been engaging in this behavior. So this meant they were doing something I would never see myself doing as an authentic person. And this is a clue to not take that person as authentic. 

This is like a litmus test I came up with. 

Not greatly helpful but somewhat helpful. 

I think a better way of going about it is asking "What is their intent behind telling me this? What are they gaining from it?" Just look for intent and what is motivating them in that moment. That will tell you their character very directly.

That is definitely behavior to be cautious around though.

[Tyler Robinson]

From the responses above... Still contemplating on the question. 

So far I gathered this —

 

• List of green signs in authentic people 
• List of red signs in phony people 
• Adage - actions speak louder than words. People who are genuine will show in action, not just words, would actually be people of fewer words 
• Genuine emotion.. Existence of emotional language in some form. 
• Intuition will guide. Sometimes intuition can fail or give false positives. Intuition is only partly reliable as a result. 
• Golden litmus test - elaborate on golden litmus test 
• What is their motivation in doing  what they are doing ? 
• What is their intent behind coming into my life? 
• Whats motivating them in this moment? 
• What are they gaining from this? 
• What are they seeking? 
• Empathy 
• Synchronicity - a natural sync develops 
• Low IQ - genuine people are low IQ... My observation has shown that genuine people are surprisingly low IQ because they don't use brain but heart intelligence. But they are high EQ since they mostly operate using emotion. But sometimes they can be low EQ assholes with low social calibration. 

 

[petar8p]

9 hours ago, Tyler Robinson said:

I'm bad at screening sincerity in people because I often take people at face value 

What should I look for while screening people for authentic intent? What tools or strategies. 

What are the green flags for detecting authenticity? 

Please. I really really need help with this.

Can you briefly describe your social exposure during your life?

[petar8p]

The answer is a lot of socialization and confidence. 

 

If you don't have these enough, you will be fucked over by people in some way because you can be taken advantage of.