A summary of "What Is Introverted Thinking?"

[JuliusCaesar]

Greetings all, I'd like to write to you a somewhat brief summary of Cs Joseph's What Is Introverted Thinking? (Ti) | Cognitive Functions | CS Joseph. Please tell me what you think of it. And, thank you for your input.

 

 

Whereas in extroverted thinking, the majority believes something is true or false on the basis of statistics or other data such as advice from the intelligentsia, in introverted thinking the individual believes something is true or false on their own. Imagine a table with many thoughts standing on either side and the majority rules, that's how it is under extroverted thinking. Now imagine instead a single table with many more thoughts all stacked linearly and moving swiftly, this is how it is under introverted thinking. Introverted thinking is under logic, which is a simple process of boolean decision-making, E.g. if this is true then this other thing is true also, or if this is false then this other thing is true et cetera. An individual using logic can arrive at the truth. Ad hominem is an instance of not introverted thinking, but extroverted feeling. The two are linked in an axis, I think therefore you feel is how human sentences work. Rationale, that is extroverted thinking exists to keep logic in check. Ethics, that is extroverted feeling also keeps logic in check by showing the deleterious consequences upon living beings via certain thoughts. Highly logical people often come off as arrogant, because to them it's also undeniable that Absolute Truth exists. From their perspective, what's the truth is the truth, how people feel is irrelevant. They should grow up and learn and grow thusly improving themselves through learning.

 

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by JuliusCaesar

[Matt23]

Ya, I tend to follow the Objective Personaljty system's definition being something like...

• Extroverted Thinking being "what works for the tribe, the tribe's reasons and logic, bouncing ideas off the tribe, etc."  I guess more respecting other people's opinions than one's own logic.  But like not just one or two, but many people's opinions which add up like evidence.  Its like they're using the opinions and logic and qualifications of others to stack up evidence for a certain logic, whereas Ti may stack up their own logic but on a deeper level.  So you may get people high in this function using others' as support for certain ideas; "Professor X and scientist Y both stated thusly, so how can you argue against that since you're not as qualified as them?"  Again, it's kind of more respecting others, especially more qualified others, as holding more weight than ones own ideas which are seen as like "OK, so what if I think this.  It doesn't matter.  And how can I know if it's really substantial what I think since it'd just my own (Ti) thoughts?"  I relate more to this one since I think I have it.  Like for me, I just don't hold my own ideas as very substantial.  They just don't mean much to me.  I don't find them overly compelling.  It's like, ya, ok, I maybe think a certain thing and reason it out, but in the end it's just a flimsy thought I had which could be easily overturned by pros and experts.  I mean, obviously not too much disrespecting my own ideas since I believe there is value and importance to respect them, I just find I gravitate automatically to talking things through with others.
• Introverted Thinking being more respecting one's own opinions, logic, reasons, and what works for oneself.  Take a look at Leo for a case in point.  Does he strike you to be someone, even if a novice at something, to take the opinions or statements of others openly or do you think he'd more question and seek to see how they are wrong and stand firm in his own reasoning etc.?  It's like those guys who seem/are arrogant in class since, even with their teachers and professors, always like questio , critique, and seek to challenge them.  Not bad, obviously, just different than the Extroverted Thinking approach of being more open and respecting to listen to others over their own logic etc..  
• And ya... like stated by the OP, they, according to the Myers Briggs stacking system, would have Extraverted Feeling below.  Thus they don't respect much and can be more unconscious of the feelings of the tribe and others, like when they just say or do harsh things without considering how others feel since "The truth is all that matters" to them.  

Edited October 15, 2022 by Matt23

[JuliusCaesar]

11 hours ago, Matt23 said:

But like not just one or two, but many people's opinions which add up like evidence.

This is substantially correct.

 

11 hours ago, Matt23 said:

whereas Ti may stack up their own logic but on a deeper level.

Of course, the Ti user is thinking independently so they don't require the patience needed to wait for the approval of others to think, therefore they just do it, and as such, it tends to be a much swifter process. But swifter isn't always better.

 

11 hours ago, Matt23 said:

so how can you argue against that since you're not as qualified as them?

This is due to the fact that Te has an axial relationship with Fi, the individual will feel better about an expert opinion than if the same were coming from a non-expert. "I believe(Te) this person knows what they're talking about(Te) more than you(Te+Fi) so I value their voice above yours(Te+Fi)" is how it works.

 

11 hours ago, Matt23 said:

Take a look at Leo for a case in point.

Many on the forum say Leo is an INTP, what say you?

 

[integral]

54 minutes ago, JuliusCaesar said:

Ti user is thinking independently

Its not really that people actually think independently, There are a sea of ideas circulating in our culture and people gravitate to the ones the best fit there values at a given time. Its like picking your favorite flavor of ice cream. There are literally no novel thoughts just values picking reasons. Discoveries take a small step outside the bubble. The ecosystem of living idea holons. Is it people who have ideas or is it ideas who have people? 

Edited October 15, 2022 by integral

[JuliusCaesar]

7 hours ago, integral said:

Its not really that people actually think independently,

Te users tend to use groupthink in their decision-making under the definitions provided.

[Carl-Richard]

From what I've gathered from conversing with a self-proclaimed MBTI expert for about a year (lol):

Ti is when you follow logical premises to their logical conclusion ("x and y, therefore z"), and it generally skews towards premises derived from intuition as opposed to external sources of fact ("I just came up with this and it's probably true" vs. "according to this source, this is true").

Te is when you consult external facts or other people's Ti. Te and Ti play heavily on each other, and it's better to think of them as a spectrum rather than mutually exclusive.

People with strong Te are well-versed in narratives and frameworks, and their vocabulary is large and precise (because they have to be careful with which framework they're operating under at which time). The pitfalls of Te are group-think, lack of creativity and lack of independent thinking/values/identity.

People with strong Ti are very good at finding inconsistencies in said narratives or frameworks, but they're equally as good at defending or smoothing over such inconsistencies in others. This is again because Ti is often very situation-dependent, relying on whatever intuitively-derived premises that are accessible to your conscious mind at that moment. Also, because logical deductions like these are quick and easy to make, you can very easily dodge and jump to other premises if needed. This creates a lot of possibilities for self-deception.

The pitfalls of Ti, other than those above, would be to burrow down into one's own fantasy world where your vocabulary becomes so disconnected from other people that it becomes hard to communicate. Likewise, the vocabulary tends to be lacking in precision, richness and depth. The thinking will therefore end up being either vacuous or impenetrable.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[Asayake]

From my past few months researching MBTI it seems to me Te is also about productivty, time efficiency, systematic thinking, productivity hacks like task managment systems, post it note to-do lists etc, as well as using external feedback and brainstorming to come up with ideas and make better progress. an ESTJ for example seems to have a tendency to rush things, sometimes too quickly. Because they want to get things done fast, they're not likely to eat slowly or dwell on what they should do for long periods of time unlike someone with high Fi like an INFP can do. 

I get that Te and Fi are on an axis and valuing Te highly means devaluing Fi. Because Fi is more about carefully considering each decision, taking things at ones own pace and making sure what's done feels like the right thing to do to oneself. Someone like an ESTJ will want to make things happen, they want to see progress and are very productive, but they risk not being true to themselves or chasing some goal that is not really worth it for them in the end because they're not valuing their Fi as highly(is what they're chasing after with their Te really worth it in the end). While an INFP on the other hand might get stuck in a rut more easily because they can forget they also need to make things happen and make progress or their life will decay. But an INFP doesn't necessarily always like the feeling of progress because progress can create some turbulence in life, They can instead prefer the feeling of things being rather stagnant for awhile until they know what they want to do because then they can feel like they're in control/can predict the future.

Can anyone here explain why Te seems to be so closely tied to the things I stated in this post? Productivity, time efficiency etc..? It's interesting to me that Te seems to be such a broad function.

Also I think the 8th(demon) function is actually pretty strong for all types. So I'm curious as to how Ti plays into the self deception of an INFP. Who uses Ti more to self decept, an INTP, ENTP, INFP or ENFP? Given that an ENFP seems to have pretty weak Ti, and INTP very strong and an ENTP and INFP strong Ti?

Edited October 16, 2022 by Asayake

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Asayake said:

Can anyone here explain why Te seems to be so closely tied to the things I stated in this post? Productivity, time efficiency etc..? It's interesting to me that Te seems to be such a broad function.

How to achieve a tangible and concrete, generally sought-after goal (e.g. success in a career, education or general project) will usually be associated with Te because other people have done these things in the past, and you're better off learning their techniques and tricks rather than figuring it out on your own.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[Asayake]

18 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

How to achieve a tangible and concrete, generally sought-after goal (e.g. success in a career, education or general project) will usually be associated with Te because other people have done these things in the past and you're better off learning their techniques and tricks rather than figuring it out on your own.

Interesting.

[JuliusCaesar]

3 hours ago, Asayake said:

Te is also about productivty, time efficiency, systematic thinking, productivity hacks like task managment systems, post it note to-do lists etc, as well as using external feedback and brainstorming to come up with ideas and make better progress

All of these fall under Te's umbrella of organizational capacity, Te is responsible for one's ability to organize. 

 

3 hours ago, Asayake said:

n ESTJ for example seems to have a tendency to rush things, sometimes too quickly. Because they want to get things done fast, they're not likely to eat slowly or dwell on what they should do for long periods of time unlike someone with high Fi like an INFP can do. 

Yes, ESTJ's tend to be more efficient than their subconscious counterpart, however they may sacrifice something by cutting corners. The INFP sacrifices efficiency for safety and other things the INFP values.

 

3 hours ago, Asayake said:

I get that Te and Fi are on an axis and valuing Te highly means devaluing Fi.

I'll make a post about CSJ's concept of cognitive axis in the near future.

 

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

How to achieve a tangible and concrete, generally sought-after goal (e.g. success in a career, education or general project) will usually be associated with Te because other people have done these things in the past, and you're better off learning their techniques and tricks rather than figuring it out on your own.

Well said.

 

 

[Dryas]

Ti is the logic of language based systems (English, Aristotelean logic, maths etc.) 

Te is the logic of everything else which is why it’s commonly concerned with “what works” or “what’s efficient”. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Dryas

[Matt23]

On 10/15/2022 at 9:47 AM, JuliusCaesar said:

Many on the forum say Leo is an INTP, what say you?

I mean, in terms of function stack, I think it makes  sense.  Especially Ti on top (meaning Fe on the bottom).  Just going by like his general attitude (arrogance, lol), his content (he seems to just go deep on intellecualizing and "figuring out the logic for himself", valuing independent thinking, etc.) and his disdain for "the crowd" and "petty human bullshit" as he'd say.  

Also, the INTP's second Ne function also makes sense with Leo: Ne being, as I see it, more about seeing connections and multiple possibilities (akin to being more creative as a stereotype).  You can see this in his proclaimed love of ideas, connecting dots, creativity, art, etc.. 

So ya... makes total sense.  

Also, of course there are many variations of MBTI with differing definitions of these things. 

But I'd say it'd be pretty safe to bet that most of them would peg Leo as an INTP, or at the bare minimum lead Ti.  Definitely some sort of NT (intuitive/abstract-thinking) type.  

Edited October 20, 2022 by Matt23

[JuliusCaesar]

3 hours ago, Matt23 said:

I mean, in terms of function stack, I think it makes  sense.  Especially Ti on top (meaning Fe on the bottom).  Just going by like his general attitude (arrogance, lol), his content (he seems to just go deep on intellecualizing and "figuring out the logic for himself", valuing independent thinking, etc.) and his disdain for "the crowd" and "petty human bullshit" as he'd say.  

Also, the INTP's second Ne function also makes sense with Leo: Ne being, as I see it, more about seeing connections and multiple possibilities (akin to being more creative as a stereotype).  You can see this in his proclaimed love of ideas, connecting dots, creativity, art, etc.. 

So ya... makes total sense.  

Also, of course there are many variations of MBTI with differing definitions of these things. 

But I'd say it'd be pretty safe to bet that most of them would peg Leo as an INTP, or at the bare minimum lead Ti.  Definitely some sort of NT (intuitive/abstract-thinking) type.  

I haven't actually typed Leo yet, but I suspect rather strongly that if I do I'd find him to be an INTP as well.

[Matt23]

On 10/20/2022 at 2:06 PM, JuliusCaesar said:

I haven't actually typed Leo yet, but I suspect rather strongly that if I do I'd find him to be an INTP as well.

Ya... hard to imagine him not fitting into that category.

What typology system do you tend to adhere to btw?

[JuliusCaesar]

1 hour ago, Matt23 said:

Ya... hard to imagine him not fitting into that category.

What typology system do you tend to adhere to btw?

Perhaps I didn't make it obvious, but I use CSJoseph's system. Though I might apply it in slightly a different manner than he personally does as I'm an INFJ and he's an ENTP. Due to the whole difference in thought processes that exist between Ti Child and Ti Parent.

 

In the future, I'll be posting summaries of CSJ's how to type videos.