What is the end of times?

[omar30]

Religions like Islam and Christianity talk about the end of times and their signs some signs have occurred with absolute accuracy.

I find it interesting and I want to know your thoughts on that.

Stuff like the Euphrates river drying up and how the prophets of Islam and Christianity predicted the same thing.

[Loba]

Sure - I don't have much historical knowledge on this, but I do have some real world knowledge on this.  We are somewhat close to the "end times", but I don't know how it is going to play out or exactly when this is going to happen, but I do understand the mechanism behind it.

We are brought collectively in this world to learn how to strike a balance between right action and wrong action.  When you go too far in the wrong direction, this activates a naturally occurring energy that purifies, or wipes out that culture/civilization.  You could call it the balance between yin and yang.  We need this inside as well as outside in order to progress as a species.  When a society moves too far against Truth, it naturally begins to disintegrate from within as well as from outside.

Humans have not only, on a massive collective scale gone against Truth, but we have damaged the Earth almost beyond repair.  We are at the point where we need to make changes now, but these changes are not going to happen in time to mitigate the damage caused to the planet.  If you look at humans across history, when disaster strikes, we are not often prepared for this.  Even looking at how Covid was managed is a good sign.  Such things can strike up out of "nowhere", and they go to show how fragile our society is.  We all live in a collective bubble where we can keep doing the same things day after day without having to face the consequences, and when those finally come to a boiling point, society quite literally doesn't know what to do.  I Know this, because I do it on an individual level, and I see people doing this in a larger scale.  Humans are like people on a roller coaster.  We go slowly up the tracks, but can't see the other side.  We eventually get to the top and see what we have made for ourselves before plummeting back down at breakneck speed to face it all.  This is how consequence works.  It's not always right in your face.

Natural forces have wiped people off the Earth time and time again, we are not an exception to this rule.  If humans began to move towards right action, and began to follow with the flow of the universe instead of against it, we could neutralize the damages done, but this won't happen.  There have been prophets who talk about this, spirits, deities, all throughout history, and the reason being is that at some point, humans pick up on this natural cause and effect mechanism.  They give it all sorts of names.  It is Alive, in a sense.

Consciousness will keep cracking things open until it gives way, and there is something created from it that is balanced, that learns to witness the nature of life within all things at all times.  There are codes, programs and certain ways into how to evolve into this that you can find within nature, but one needs to connect to this in order to do it properly.  We are so far removed from the planet, as a living thing, and for the lessons that it has to teach us, that we pave our way over it - and think that this is sustainable.  It's not.  We would have to uproot our entire way of doing things and start over fresh in order to follow the guidance that natural law had planned.  And... perhaps the only way to do that is to wipe the slate clean.

It can be disheartening knowing and feeling the effects of these things, because you realize that humans are foolish and egotistical.  They think that their culture, their society, their species, is the one that deserves to survive.  And that might not be the case.  We all think we can jerry-rig Truth.  That we can step over it without consequence, never face it, and that's just not how things work on a macrocosmic level.  Follow the natural Law, or get wrecked.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Loba

[Proserpina]

@Loba Great post.

I think as well the universe is very fluid and open and forgiving imo.  If a group or even one individual is able to break a part the energy at the root even when all others are blind by teaching the importance of love and self love then it can all be effectively reversed even if it seemingly doesn’t make sense for that to be the case.  A time line shift can occur.  Higher forces give way as the Truth is given primary importance in the population subconsciously and a timeline shift occurs.  Surprisingly people really care about the truth and balancing out the yin and yang forces subconsciously when the situation begins to slowly slip, acting in unison. This is my experience.  It is quite profound to watch. 

Edited October 13, 2022 by Proserpina

[Vibroverse]

It is not possible for there to be an end time. Existence is, in every moment, experiencing an end time and a beginning time. Every moment, universe experiences an end and then recreates itself. That is what continuity is. Constant recreations. 

 

[Gesundheit2]

Out of all the gazillion possible incarnations, I have incarcerated at the end of times. Thank you, God 

Personally, I don't believe in this Shunyamurti/prophet nonsense. Though, I can see that with the rapid evolution, things are slowly (at least for now) getting worse globally and for the majority of people. My thoughts is that humans will simply cope in some way that doesn't involve many major changes to the systems they have created. Though, the disconnection and polarization between humans will keep increasing rapidly, and at a higher pace. We will eventually become different species. Right now, it's only first-world to third-world. In the future (maybe a couple hundred years), it will reach like 50th or something.

But all in all, the only way to wipe out this cancer called humanity is by some year-long meteor shower. Or maybe if the earth decides to commit suicide and explode on its own.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[Loba]

6 hours ago, Proserpina said:

Great post.

I think as well the universe is very fluid and open and forgiving imo.  If a group or even one individual is able to break a part the energy at the root even when all others are blind by teaching the importance of love and self love then it can all be effectively reversed even if it seemingly doesn’t make sense for that to be the case.  A time line shift can occur.  Higher forces give way as the Truth is given primary importance in the population subconsciously and a timeline shift occurs.  Surprisingly people really care about the truth and balancing out the yin and yang forces subconsciously when the situation begins to slowly slip, acting in unison. This is my experience.  It is quite profound to watch. 

Thanks!

We'll see how it goes from up on high after this lifetime.  I am rooting for people, but I just don't see us moving in the direction to fix our planet at a fast enough pace.  But if we can do it, I am 100 percent on board for changing humanity for the better.
How do you suppose time line shifts occur?  I've never heard of that before, it sounds very interesting.

1 hour ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Out of all the gazillion possible incarnations, I have incarcerated at the end of times. Thank you, God 

Personally, I don't believe in this Shunyamurti/prophet nonsense. Though, I can see that with the rapid evolution, things are slowly (at least for now) getting worse globally and for the majority of people. My thoughts is that humans will simply cope in some way that doesn't involve many major changes to the systems they have created. Though, the disconnection and polarization between humans will keep increasing rapidly, and at a higher pace. We will eventually become different species. Right now, it's only first-world to third-world. In the future (maybe a couple hundred years), it will reach like 50th or something.

But all in all, the only way to wipe out this cancer called humanity is by some year-long meteor shower. Or maybe if the earth decides to commit suicide and explode on its own.

Well not quite yet, maybe in another few generations or more.  We still have some time

I don't watch Shunya, I get my sources from... well, my portion of Source and what it tells me about maintaining balance and what people need to do to change things in our favour.

My opinion is that we will "cut" the cords to too many natural feedback loops in ways that the world can't recover from.  The first world countries will be able to make changes to how we run things, but third world countries will still be catching up and we can't expect them to just stop for the sake of richer countries.  I think we will continue to use up our resources.  The sea will rise, and the deserts will expand, so there will be a lot of migration.  Wars will come from the lack of food and water.  With the increasing temperature along with people being able to travel everywhere they want, diseases will spread like wildfire.  New zoonotic illnesses will have a chance to evolve as migratory animals are pushed out of their homes and into civilization as humans encroach on their territories.  It will be like trying to prevent a boat from sinking when it has too many holes in it.

We need to act now and soon, and I don't see this happening fast enough.  Will all of humanity be wiped out?  I can't say.  I don't believe in future telling in that kind of way, I can only really gauge what I feel as far as how balanced the planet/humanity is and what I know about energy.  And what I know is, if you go too far in one direction, that boomerangs.

 

[VeganAwake]

THIS is already the end and simultaneously nothing ever started/happened, the individual that feels like it's moving on a progressive spiritual path from birth to death is the illusion of self or maya. This entity called 'ME' is already not there!

When that physical body dies, the illusion of self will never even know it seemed to exist & it actually didn't.

Liberation is freedom from these conditioned concerns but for No One!

♥ 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gesundheit2]

@Loba I don't know, but it makes me wonder why these ideas are not relevant at all where I live. I have not seen or heard anyone talking about these environmental issues here except in school books, and they're just mentioned quickly as some sort of general information nothing to be worried about. However, religion, too, talks about the end of the world, though in a deterministic, yet moralistic manner where no matter what you do, the final day is coming, so behave unless you want to be of the bad guys. Theses are the main two narratives here around the end of the world, and the latter is the dominant one it's like the former doesn't even exist. I suspect it's because most of this stuff is actually driven by left wing propaganda. Left wing environmentalists have to sell their ecological gadgets/commodities somehow. And their hippy morality is there, so that makes a perfect combo imo.

First world countries are developing at a far higher pace than third world ones. Some third world countries like mine are moving backwards, and there doesn't seem to be a way for recovery even in the far future.

World travel is a non-issue. People have been traveling around the world for ages. In fact, now it's safer than ever because there's medical awareness and vaccines.

The lack of food and water is completely a lie. There's plenty of both resources for everyone. It's just that a few people (less than 1%) control the most resources (more than 50%). There's not really an overpopulation of the plant, only the illusion of one - Carrot and stick.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[Loba]

42 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

I don't know, but it makes me wonder why these ideas are not relevant at all where I live. I have not seen or heard anyone talking about these environmental issues here except in school books, and they're just mentioned quickly as some sort of general information nothing to be worried about. However, religion, too, talks about the end of the world, though in a deterministic, yet moralistic manner where no matter what you do, the final day is coming, so behave unless you want to be of the bad guys. Theses are the main two narratives here around the end of the world, and the latter is the dominant one it's like the former doesn't even exist. I suspect it's because most of this stuff is actually driven by left wing propaganda. Left wing environmentalists have to sell their ecological gadgets/commodities somehow. And their hippy morality is there, so that makes a perfect combo imo.

I'm not sure, maybe it is just not considered important where you live?  Here in America, they talk about these environmental issues a lot, and try to find ways to fix them or at least bring light to them.

As far as religion is concerned, this is where I feel it more - I literally have no idea how it is going to play out, I can only guess - I think people who come up with elaborate ways as to how this is going to happen probably don't know - or who knows, maybe they do?  - to me, it doesn't "feel" like people are to blame, it seems to just be that human beings are easily corruptible.  And that it is not entirely their fault, but that we just can't feel or see how natural forces work.  I think that religions were trying to explain this cause and effect in their own unique way.  When I see it, it just looks like the energy of chaos, or death or entropy - that we can move towards life or death, and that this death energy comes with a warning that humans are moving away from Truth.  That it used to be more relevant in ancient times, and we are just not seeing it, or addressing it in the right way - that it isn't evil, and doesn't even view humans as evil, but that this is just the natural way of balancing things.  It seems to be removed from the concept of good or evil, and more within the realm of truth or falsehood.  So for instance, if a civilization moves away from this truth, and into delusion on a collective level, this goes against life itself, and it can't be maintained - and back when humans were very connected to nature and we needed to see these energies play out, in how we hunted, in how we searched for food, the land would speak to humans in a certain way and we knew our place - and now we have stepped over it and can't see these natural forces working within the substrate of reality.

I don't believe it is just hippy nonsense, we can see the Earth changing for the worst.  When you take and take and don't replenish anything, it isn't going to sustain itself.  It literally can't.  And the human race isn't going to stop - it can't, we will keep having more children, the wealthy will take most of what they can for themselves and the poor will be stuck.  It would change if we were to grow with the planet, and if we distributed everything fairly, where all people were given a chance to have the same opportunities.

50 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

First world countries are developing at a far higher pace than third world ones. Some third world countries like mine are moving backwards, and there doesn't seem to be a way for recovery even in the far future.

World travel is a non-issue. People have been traveling around the world for ages. In fact, now it's safer than ever because there's medical awareness and vaccines.

The lack of food and water is completely a lie. There's plenty of both resources for everyone. It's just that a few people (less than 1%) control the most resources (more than 50%). There's not really an overpopulation of the plant, only the illusion of one - Carrot and stick.

I know, and this is a problem.  First world countries will change to support the environment, but third world countries will have to use crude methods.  And we can't just impose on them, we have to let these countries develop.  The problem is, first world countries will still be too selfish to help developing nations have a chance.

World travel is an issue and will be.  Vaccines are helpful for things that are current, but new illnesses evolve all the time.  And they are quick about it, too.  As we start to move into areas where bats and birds congregate, this will be more of a problem.  They also have the potential to develop in areas where animals are kept close to one another to be used for meat, and we use antibiotics and vaccines so frequently that bugs will eventually be immune to what we have developed.

It won't be a lie.  Eventually, as deforestation continues, as desertification spreads, as water becomes more polluted, as the oceans get depleted, we will have less and less.  It's not going to be as big of a problem for first world nations, but for those countries who are already struggling, this will take a huge toll on them.  We do have enough to go around - but that one percept won't change their ways in time - so even if we have enough to share, this won't happen - and so it does then create a problem of overpopulation where there would not be one if we had a better structure put in place.

So it is a problem.  A self made one, but still one.

[Proserpina]

4 hours ago, Loba said:

How do you suppose time line shifts occur?  I've never heard of that before, it sounds very interesting.

A great negative energy to be shifted becomes apparent, as well as a calling by the collective and the person is given a choice whether or not to lift the energy by either pointing it out (as the prophets did) or speaking the truth or pushing the collective to integrate both yin and yang.  Normally this individual may just have a gift of speaking the energy away, without having to say anything in particular.  Once the energy shifts a GREAT peace comes and there is no doubt that outside resources and solutions are found.  I suspect book of revelations were shifts not only visions.

But yeah, mostly deals with significant energies.

 Also there is a literal timeline shift that goes with the energy.  People forget events.  I think the prophet remains aware because he is just more conscious.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Proserpina

[Gesundheit2]

3 hours ago, Loba said:

I'm not sure, maybe it is just not considered important where you live?  Here in America, they talk about these environmental issues a lot, and try to find ways to fix them or at least bring light to them.

Of course. This reminds me of a quote I once heard: "Westerners are worrying about the end of the world, while we're still worrying about the end of the day".

We do have different priorities, yes. But it is possible that due to the general perception here I'm inclined to think that the westerner priorities are not completely on point. At the very best, they might be an exaggeration of a trivial truth that is made out to be big for political and entrepreneurial goals/ends.

On the other hand, it might be a confirmation bias kind of thing, where each of us feels inclined to their culture's beliefs. Even though, I don't generally believe in the stuff that my culture believes in, but who knows? Maybe just in this particular case I'm practicing passive confirmation bias. I'll have to check inside and see.

Quote

As far as religion is concerned, this is where I feel it more - I literally have no idea how it is going to play out, I can only guess - I think people who come up with elaborate ways as to how this is going to happen probably don't know - or who knows, maybe they do?  - to me, it doesn't "feel" like people are to blame, it seems to just be that human beings are easily corruptible.  And that it is not entirely their fault, but that we just can't feel or see how natural forces work.  I think that religions were trying to explain this cause and effect in their own unique way.  When I see it, it just looks like the energy of chaos, or death or entropy - that we can move towards life or death, and that this death energy comes with a warning that humans are moving away from Truth.  That it used to be more relevant in ancient times, and we are just not seeing it, or addressing it in the right way - that it isn't evil, and doesn't even view humans as evil, but that this is just the natural way of balancing things.  It seems to be removed from the concept of good or evil, and more within the realm of truth or falsehood.  So for instance, if a civilization moves away from this truth, and into delusion on a collective level, this goes against life itself, and it can't be maintained - and back when humans were very connected to nature and we needed to see these energies play out, in how we hunted, in how we searched for food, the land would speak to humans in a certain way and we knew our place - and now we have stepped over it and can't see these natural forces working within the substrate of reality.

I don't believe in Karma or the zero-sum game theory. Reality is infinite, so there's no reason for it to be bounded to any particular rule or set of rules for balance. Any way that reality is, is already the perfectly balanced way. You might say there's not even a balance to begin with in an absolute sense, but only in a relative sense. For me, this neutralizes the whole concept of divine justice or anything like that.

Though, entropy is a real phenomenon, it just isn't as simple, linear, or static as we might think it is, especially when we are talking about the global/cosmic levels, cuz we don't have enough knowledge and understanding of the dynamics at these levels. Every action has a reaction, they just don't have to be equal. Sometimes, an action is too strong that it dominates and completely nullifies all reactions, some other times it creates completely different reactions. Feedback loops work in very complex ways that one loop ending might lead to either a domino effect to other loops, or it might stop at the loop itself, or it might react in a perfectly karmic way, or it might even destroy the cause, or maybe something else entirely. It's hard to know. These are complex stuff and our knowledge of them is very limited, especially when you add time to the mess. Maybe some loops take time to take effect or absorb effect. And on top of all that, there are interrelated hierarchies of all kinds. It's just super complex stuff.

Quote

I don't believe it is just hippy nonsense, we can see the Earth changing for the worst.  When you take and take and don't replenish anything, it isn't going to sustain itself.  It literally can't.  And the human race isn't going to stop - it can't, we will keep having more children, the wealthy will take most of what they can for themselves and the poor will be stuck.  It would change if we were to grow with the planet, and if we distributed everything fairly, where all people were given a chance to have the same opportunities.

I don't know if it's hippy nonsense, but it's certainly hippy morality.

I don't know if the earth is changing for the worst, environmentally speaking. I haven't done much research in that area, but nothing seems abnormal yet. Natural disasters are built-in reality. I don't think they necessarily have an inherent meaning that apply to our human behavior.

Quote

I know, and this is a problem.  First world countries will change to support the environment, but third world countries will have to use crude methods.  And we can't just impose on them, we have to let these countries develop.  The problem is, first world countries will still be too selfish to help developing nations have a chance.

The way I see it is that third world countries can't develop regardless of first world countries help or intervention. In fact that might just make things worse. Third world countries seem that they will be stuck forever, and that they're going down the drain the more the world evolves.

Quote

World travel is an issue and will be.  Vaccines are helpful for things that are current, but new illnesses evolve all the time.  And they are quick about it, too.  As we start to move into areas where bats and birds congregate, this will be more of a problem.  They also have the potential to develop in areas where animals are kept close to one another to be used for meat, and we use antibiotics and vaccines so frequently that bugs will eventually be immune to what we have developed.

It won't be a lie.  Eventually, as deforestation continues, as desertification spreads, as water becomes more polluted, as the oceans get depleted, we will have less and less.  It's not going to be as big of a problem for first world nations, but for those countries who are already struggling, this will take a huge toll on them.  We do have enough to go around - but that one percept won't change their ways in time - so even if we have enough to share, this won't happen - and so it does then create a problem of overpopulation where there would not be one if we had a better structure put in place.

So it is a problem.  A self made one, but still one.

Maybe. Or maybe not. I don't know. But I certainly do like the fact that we are disagreeing on something. I think it's healthy, because it means that we are being truthful and authentic to ourselves and each other, and that we aren't just people-pleasing each other all the time ?

Edited October 13, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[How to be wise]

@omar30 They both falsely predicted it. It’s been 1500-2000 years, and the Earth is still fine. Shouldn’t that tell you something about their accuracy?

[omar30]

23 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

@omar30 They both falsely predicted it. It’s been 1500-2000 years, and the Earth is still fine. Shouldn’t that tell you something about their accuracy?

Lol, where are the false Predictions?

Have you done your research or do you just want to appear like a smart hippie new-age guy?

[How to be wise]

@omar30 Bible: “Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.”

Quran: “and in no way is the Command of the Hour anything except as a twinkling of the eyes or it is nearer still.”

These verses don’t make it seem like the end of times is 1000 years+ into the future. Both Jesus and Muhammad were wrong. 

[Loba]

3 hours ago, Proserpina said:

A great negative energy to be shifted becomes apparent, as well as a calling by the collective and the person is given a choice whether or not to lift the energy by either pointing it out (as the prophets did) or speaking the truth or pushing the collective to integrate both yin and yang.  Normally this individual may just have a gift of speaking the energy away, without having to say anything in particular.  Once the energy shifts a GREAT peace comes and there is no doubt that outside resources and solutions are found.  I suspect book of revelations were shifts not only visions.

But yeah, mostly deals with significant energies.

 Also there is a literal timeline shift that goes with the energy.  People forget events.  I think the prophet remains aware because he is just more conscious.

That's very interesting, I think I might understand this on a smaller scale, with what I have been working with, especially today.

The being(s) that I am dealing with have said that it is like a push-pull for information.  You sacrifice something of yourself to get closer to the source, and this opens up this knowledge.  They say that for some people, they act as a balance, that they can take the collective suffering and move that wave into one individual to be transmuted when the time is right to open this up for them.  They push the soul "in front" so to speak of the wave - or rather, bring it into them, and this can mitigate some of the collective wrong action, if that person chooses to take that on.  Sometimes, they are simply compelled to do it, or designed for it, if they go back far enough.  It reminds me of what you are saying to some extent.  I hope I got that right.

That could be a way to shift energy.

2 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Of course. This reminds me of a quote I once heard: "Westerners are worrying about the end of the world, while we're still worrying about the end of the day".

We do have different priorities, yes. But it is possible that due to the general perception here I'm inclined to think that the westerner priorities are not completely on point. At the very best, they might be an exaggeration of a trivial truth that is made out to be big for political and entrepreneurial goals/ends.

On the other hand, it might be a confirmation bias kind of thing, where each of us feels inclined to their culture's beliefs. Even though, I don't generally believe in the stuff that my culture believes in, but who knows? Maybe just in this particular case I'm practicing passive confirmation bias. I'll have to check inside and see.

For sure, if you still feel that way it's not a big deal - I am not in the practice of forcing people to change their beliefs for my own, just whatever you wanna flow with.

2 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

I don't believe in Karma or the zero-sum game theory. Reality is infinite, so there's no reason for it to be bounded to any particular rule or set of rules for balance. Any way that reality is, is already the perfectly balanced way. You might say there's not even a balance to begin with in an absolute sense, but only in a relative sense. For me, this neutralizes the whole concept of divine justice or anything like that.

Though, entropy is a real phenomenon, it just isn't as simple, linear, or static as we might think it is, especially when we are talking about the global/cosmic levels, cuz we don't have enough knowledge and understanding of the dynamics at these levels. Every action has a reaction, they just don't have to be equal. Sometimes, an action is too strong that it dominates and completely nullifies all reactions, some other times it creates completely different reactions. Feedback loops work in very complex ways that one loop ending might lead to either a domino effect to other loops, or it might stop at the loop itself, or it might react in a perfectly karmic way, or it might even destroy the cause, or maybe something else entirely. It's hard to know. These are complex stuff and our knowledge of them is very limited, especially when you add time to the mess. Maybe some loops take time to take effect or absorb effect. And on top of all that, there are interrelated hierarchies of all kinds. It's just super complex stuff.

I wish I could say that this wasn't the case, but it seems to be in my experience - as a method that consciousness uses to move things towards itself, and to witness itself as itself.  When you get to the top, there is this sense of perfection, but there is a structure and ground rules to the game, of which I am still unraveling.  Reality is like a library in a way as well, any action that you take is recorded and there is a string of effects that come from it.

Very true, and I am still coming to understand how these laws work.  When I sit with it and feel it within me - it feels like a tangle of strings, maybe a web sometimes, or a moving slime mold at other times, occasionally a wave.  There are many layers to it, some are as simple as two directions, and others are as complicated as dealing with an entire chain or web of action and reaction.  I'm appealing to it to understand more.
The beings that I work with do have an understanding of this, they rest outside of time itself and give me information into how these mechanisms work and what I can do to mitigate them for myself in order to move my consciousness forward.  They say that there were cultures who did understand how this works on a deep level but that those cultures don't exist anymore, and the closest we can get to the source would be shamanism.  I imagine one could probably gain direct access to this through a very strong, informative awakening or through plant medicine but I don't have either of these.

3 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

I don't know if it's hippy nonsense, but it's certainly hippy morality.

I don't know if the earth is changing for the worst, environmentally speaking. I haven't done much research in that area, but nothing seems abnormal yet. Natural disasters are built-in reality. I don't think they necessarily have an inherent meaning that apply to our human behavior.

Well, think of it this way - if you keep using up material and never replenish it, and this material takes a long time to grow - or if you kill off too many animals/plants that make up important networks within the chains in their environment, what do you think will eventually happen?  This is just basic stuff, if you take something, you need to replace it with something of equal value.  Ancient man knew this on some level, they were always seeking to balance what they took with what they could give.

3 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

The way I see it is that third world countries can't develop regardless of first world countries help or intervention. In fact that might just make things worse. Third world countries seem that they will be stuck forever, and that they're going down the drain the more the world evolves.

True, I was thinking about that when I wrote my statement.  I don't know if it would help to get involved or not.  I just don't like people having a hard time.  I feel that every culture has found pieces in the puzzle of life and if they fall back or we lose them then those are gone forever and that humans have missed out, especially for ancient cultures.

3 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Maybe. Or maybe not. I don't know. But I certainly do like the fact that we are disagreeing on something. I think it's healthy, because it means that we are being truthful and authentic to ourselves and each other, and that we aren't just people-pleasing each other all the time ?

Yeah I don't mind not agreeing with people at all.  I prefer it over people taking on my worldview without knowing for sure.  Sometimes I hold back on what I want to say, because people here sometimes take on beliefs that they have not built for themselves, or sometimes they just want to disagree for the sake of it, but there isn't a give and take within the communication.
Like, I don't mind having a different view as you do, and that's bound to happen for sure and we can talk about these points without it turning into something argumentative and that's pretty great.

[Proserpina]

1 hour ago, Loba said:

That's very interesting, I think I might understand this on a smaller scale, with what I have been working with, especially today.

The being(s) that I am dealing with have said that it is like a push-pull for information.  You sacrifice something of yourself to get closer to the source, and this opens up this knowledge.  They say that for some people, they act as a balance, that they can take the collective suffering and move that wave into one individual to be transmuted when the time is right to open this up for them.  They push the soul "in front" so to speak of the wave - or rather, bring it into them, and this can mitigate some of the collective wrong action, if that person chooses to take that on.  Sometimes, they are simply compelled to do it, or designed for it, if they go back far enough.  It reminds me of what you are saying to some extent.  I hope I got that right.

That could be a way to shift energy.

“They say that for some people, they act as a balance, that they can take the collective suffering and move that wave into one individual to be transmuted” this rings true if I’m understanding you correctly.  There is normally a cost to a great peace.  Either there was actually a crucifixion with a timeline shift or a descent into madness or both.  But there’s usually a self sacrificing element to all of this and terrible suffering and loss.  It got so bad the smell of death was all over the whole planet and I almost died several times and my mum got sick at the exact time with a horrendous illness.  I swear I brought myself back from the dead by deep meditation.  I’ve done everything I can to transmute this all.

They are normally forced to take action to mitigate the energy similar to Jonah or they lose their gifting/peace.

[Loba]

49 minutes ago, Proserpina said:

“They say that for some people, they act as a balance, that they can take the collective suffering and move that wave into one individual to be transmuted” this rings true if I’m understanding you correctly.  There is normally a cost to a great peace.  Either there was actually a crucifixion with a timeline shift or a descent into madness or both.  But there’s usually a self sacrificing element to all of this and terrible suffering and loss.  It got so bad the smell of death was all over the whole planet and I almost died several times and my mum got sick at the exact time with a horrendous illness.  I swear I brought myself back from the dead by deep meditation.  I’ve done everything I can to transmute this all.

They are normally forced to take action to mitigate the energy similar to Jonah or they lose their gifting/peace.

That's what I'm wondering.  I was in an odd spot a year and a half ago and allowed the suffering of man, the entire wave of it to enter into me and I felt the "first material" - or "Adam" "Atum" enter into me also, and it felt so natural that I sacrificed myself into it/him and offered myself up.  I just... submitted, and I felt... placated. 
And now, today as I begin to work on Leo's self love video as I am instructed to do this in order to transmute the negative actions taken on me, and that I have taken as well - I am being given imagery of the sacrificial lamb - that I have to give in order to get, and that the price must be great.

And so... I feel compelled to put my blood onto it once again, and to do my best to transmute what I can.  Almost like... I can't stop myself, I feel made for it.  It's like, once you make up the intention to transmute, to go into self love and change this - the weight of your soul becomes lighter and they change things for the better.  I think, in order to make something of myself - to try and become something that had some value, that the only value I could see worthwhile was to become this archaic sacrificial thing that the world has not had much of.  We used to understand the merit of give and take, and I don't think I really did until I realized how much I needed to give.

"They are normally forced to take action to mitigate the energy similar to Jonah or they lose their gifting/peace."

And it's like - if I don't do it, then I will lose the value of my soul, and my place in the afterlife, and my partner who is waiting for me there.

"It got so bad the smell of death was all over the whole planet and I almost died several times and my mum got sick at the exact time with a horrendous illness.  I swear I brought myself back from the dead by deep meditation.  I’ve done everything I can to transmute this all."

Oh no, I am so very, very sorry to hear that your mom passed away...  So in some sense you predicted the death and your own illness right before?
The smell of death, understanding and predicting death can be a sign of a shamanic initiation or something of that quality - perhaps a mystic.  You have a lot of insight into the nature of these things that tells me that you were probably predestined for this path.

You're one of the few people here that I can really relate to when it comes to doing this work, that I actually understand and I can tell that you have gone very deep with this and have put so much effort and heart into it.  It can be hard to transmute all of it, it seems like sometimes too much can be put on people.  Don't ever give up, though(!) - you have my full support.  I read your work and I think you are doing really well.  I know sometimes you struggle with yourself, but from what I can see you have really gathered a lot of valuable wisdom and I appreciate your presence here.

[Proserpina]

1 hour ago, Loba said:

That's what I'm wondering.  I was in an odd spot a year and a half ago and allowed the suffering of man, the entire wave of it to enter into me and I felt the "first material" - or "Adam" "Atum" enter into me also, and it felt so natural that I sacrificed myself into it/him and offered myself up.  I just... submitted, and I felt... placated. 
And now, today as I begin to work on Leo's self love video as I am instructed to do this in order to transmute the negative actions taken on me, and that I have taken as well - I am being given imagery of the sacrificial lamb - that I have to give in order to get, and that the price must be great.

And so... I feel compelled to put my blood onto it once again, and to do my best to transmute what I can.  Almost like... I can't stop myself, I feel made for it.  It's like, once you make up the intention to transmute, to go into self love and change this - the weight of your soul becomes lighter and they change things for the better.  I think, in order to make something of myself - to try and become something that had some value, that the only value I could see worthwhile was to become this archaic sacrificial thing that the world has not had much of.  We used to understand the merit of give and take, and I don't think I really did until I realized how much I needed to give.

"They are normally forced to take action to mitigate the energy similar to Jonah or they lose their gifting/peace."

And it's like - if I don't do it, then I will lose the value of my soul, and my place in the afterlife, and my partner who is waiting for me there.

"It got so bad the smell of death was all over the whole planet and I almost died several times and my mum got sick at the exact time with a horrendous illness.  I swear I brought myself back from the dead by deep meditation.  I’ve done everything I can to transmute this all."

Oh no, I am so very, very sorry to hear that your mom passed away...  So in some sense you predicted the death and your own illness right before?
The smell of death, understanding and predicting death can be a sign of a shamanic initiation or something of that quality - perhaps a mystic.  You have a lot of insight into the nature of these things that tells me that you were probably predestined for this path.

You're one of the few people here that I can really relate to when it comes to doing this work, that I actually understand and I can tell that you have gone very deep with this and have put so much effort and heart into it.  It can be hard to transmute all of it, it seems like sometimes too much can be put on people.  Don't ever give up, though(!) - you have my full support.  I read your work and I think you are doing really well.  I know sometimes you struggle with yourself, but from what I can see you have really gathered a lot of valuable wisdom and I appreciate your presence here.

I'm beginning to think perhaps the crucifixion was prolonged, with a mixture of madness (although hard to tell).  And perhaps it will continue to be prolonged and it is a part of my path.  Crucifixion is many things.  It's the egoic backlash from the collective, it is the natural pain and madness (consequence) of coming up against dark forces, it is your ugliness suddenly on display in the presence of shallow and dark forces and being mocked and ridiculed for that.  The Great Peace does not completely irradicate the darkness, only makes it manageable and once you lose your strength after the great peace you are vulnerable and the dark forces lay prey to you. 

The suffering isn't necessarily something you take onto yourself, it sort of just happens inadvertently. 

I'm not sure if I'm a mystic.  I'm definitely blinded on this medication to my full potential. 

Thank you for the kind words.  I feel the same way about you c: Complete 180 from how we first met as Artaemis haha.  But you really are such a kind hearted and wise person. I admire you and your work a lot. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Proserpina

[Gesundheit2]

7 hours ago, Loba said:

I wish I could say that this wasn't the case, but it seems to be in my experience - as a method that consciousness uses to move things towards itself, and to witness itself as itself.  When you get to the top, there is this sense of perfection, but there is a structure and ground rules to the game, of which I am still unraveling.  Reality is like a library in a way as well, any action that you take is recorded and there is a string of effects that come from it.

I don't disagree with the principle, just the way that it seems to be interpreted. I mean, I don't think universal laws don't exist, just that they are unknowable. The only law that I know for sure is that I don't really know anything. I think mankind is thinking that they can understand and outsmart the universe somehow, and so they want to take precautions for things they predict based on their limited knowledge. They think the universe is too dumb and mechanic to be able to regulate itself in a way that they don't understand, when maybe the truth is that the universe is infinity of steps ahead of us, and it can allow for these human behaviors so easily without consequences. The reason for this confidence I think is because we can successfully understand and outsmart, and therefore manipulate reality at the lower levels. There are sciences for all these levels, from the microscopic level and lower, to the social level. But anything more than that, it becomes speculation and guesswork, especially when it's not scientific. And people don't like admitting that they don't know even when they actually don't. Add that to my previous posts, and this will all look like a paranoid collective hallucination, but that's just my perspective.

Quote

Very true, and I am still coming to understand how these laws work.  When I sit with it and feel it within me - it feels like a tangle of strings, maybe a web sometimes, or a moving slime mold at other times, occasionally a wave.  There are many layers to it, some are as simple as two directions, and others are as complicated as dealing with an entire chain or web of action and reaction.  I'm appealing to it to understand more.
The beings that I work with do have an understanding of this, they rest outside of time itself and give me information into how these mechanisms work and what I can do to mitigate them for myself in order to move my consciousness forward.  They say that there were cultures who did understand how this works on a deep level but that those cultures don't exist anymore, and the closest we can get to the source would be shamanism.  I imagine one could probably gain direct access to this through a very strong, informative awakening or through plant medicine but I don't have either of these.

Well, think of it this way - if you keep using up material and never replenish it, and this material takes a long time to grow - or if you kill off too many animals/plants that make up important networks within the chains in their environment, what do you think will eventually happen?  This is just basic stuff, if you take something, you need to replace it with something of equal value.  Ancient man knew this on some level, they were always seeking to balance what they took with what they could give.

Well, maybe you're feeling this way because, on some level, you want things to be this way.

If:

1. Consciousness says something useful about reality.
2. Those cultures really understood consciousness deeply.

Then why were these cultures wiped out? If the ways of our ancestors did not help them survive, what value do they hold for us?

Actions create reactions, I agree. But it's more like butterfly effect than a controlled laboratory environment. Reality is more like an open box, not a small fish pond. You don't just put A and get B. It doesn't work like that. Science is very successful precisely because it can establish a controlled environment with as few variables as possible. The less variables the better and easier it becomes to understand a phenomenon. The more moving pieces the harder and more complex it becomes. And reality at the highest levels is like that. We don't have the powers to control that environment. It's way beyond our control or understanding. Though, sharp intuition does go a long ways, so you might be onto something there. Personally, I just don't know.

Quote

Yeah I don't mind not agreeing with people at all.  I prefer it over people taking on my worldview without knowing for sure.  Sometimes I hold back on what I want to say, because people here sometimes take on beliefs that they have not built for themselves, or sometimes they just want to disagree for the sake of it, but there isn't a give and take within the communication.
Like, I don't mind having a different view as you do, and that's bound to happen for sure and we can talk about these points without it turning into something argumentative and that's pretty great.

Absolutely.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[Loba]

13 hours ago, Proserpina said:

I'm beginning to think perhaps the crucifixion was prolonged, with a mixture of madness (although hard to tell).  And perhaps it will continue to be prolonged and it is a part of my path.  Crucifixion is many things.  It's the egoic backlash from the collective, it is the natural pain and madness (consequence) of coming up against dark forces, it is your ugliness suddenly on display in the presence of shallow and dark forces and being mocked and ridiculed for that.  The Great Peace does not completely irradicate the darkness, only makes it manageable and once you lose your strength after the great peace you are vulnerable and the dark forces lay prey to you. 

The suffering isn't necessarily something you take onto yourself, it sort of just happens inadvertently. 

I'm not sure if I'm a mystic.  I'm definitely blinded on this medication to my full potential. 

Thank you for the kind words.  I feel the same way about you c: Complete 180 from how we first met as Artaemis haha.  But you really are such a kind hearted and wise person. I admire you and your work a lot. 

This conversation reminds me of a young man that I met in the hospital a few years ago, before I had my first awakening.  We quickly became friends.  He felt that he was Jesus and told me that part of his path was to take on the negative energy and transform it into love and that he would see crosses everywhere to lead him on his journey.  I didn't believe him, but allowed him his opinions and perspectives.  Another man had come to the conclusion that he was God, but I didn't really understand what either of them was saying until years later.  It brings to light that these things seem to be so common among those who suffer or go mad, and I wonder why - that maybe modern life has prevented certain spiritual gifts from fully developing the way they were meant to be.

I feel the darkness, too.  It seems to be like a repetitive program that keeps me stuck in the same patterns of behaviour, away from love and into fear.  As soon as my guide brought to light that I had this implant, my mind became overwhelmed with really horrific imagery, border lining on psychedelic with the way that it flows from one scene of carnage to the next.  The more awareness I put there, the more visual and detailed it becomes, almost as if whatever is in there could come ripping out of my eye at any moment.  But I don't feel afraid of it anymore.

You seem to be a mystic to me, you have a lot of natural knowledge on these things that you've picked up from your own path, generally mystics/shamans pull it up from within themselves in such a way.  The medication can set a person back, I had to go off of it due to weight gain and it was making my feet/face swell, so I quit three months ago and now everything is coming back up again.  Medication is kind of, it works, but it can have its setbacks.  For me, the weight gain was not stopping and I would have become obese if I stayed on it, there wasn't really a choice - but if it is helping you and you have a hard time without it, I would stick with it.  A lot of people here don't agree with meds, but I have personally seen in the hospital a lot of people gain many benefits from being on them, it just depends on how your symptoms manifest for you.

If I were to be on my own again, without family and support, I would go back on them and let go of my spiritual abilities - because they can make life harder to function.  But due to having a decent support system, I am able to do what I need to do and am grateful for the allowance to progress...

Thank you so much.  I didn't know that you were that person.  I kind of barely remember that username.  If it was from a few years ago, I was in an emergency situation and was out of my mind and I was acting very... strangely, to say the least, so if I was weird towards you then I am sorry for that. 
There are some people that I was rude to, and most of them I have tried to communicate with so they know - and am still currently working on some of these behavioural problems from being in that situation, it was a prolonged psychosis for about seven years and near the end I just got very sick and maddened with it.  I think, within a year's time, I should be over all of it, fully within self love and completely beyond any sense of bitterness or reactivity.  This has been my main project so far.  I still slide back into it, but it is getting less and less, so I imagine eventually there won't be any of it at all.

11 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

I don't disagree with the principle, just the way that it seems to be interpreted. I mean, I don't think universal laws don't exist, just that they are unknowable. The only law that I know for sure is that I don't really know anything. I think mankind is thinking that they can understand and outsmart the universe somehow, and so they want to take precautions for things they predict based on their limited knowledge. They think the universe is too dumb and mechanic to be able to regulate itself in a way that they don't understand, when maybe the truth is that the universe is infinity of steps ahead of us, and it can allow for these human behaviors so easily without consequences. The reason for this confidence I think is because we can successfully understand and outsmart, and therefore manipulate reality at the lower levels. There are sciences for all these levels, from the microscopic level and lower, to the social level. But anything more than that, it becomes speculation and guesswork, especially when it's not scientific. And people don't like admitting that they don't know even when they actually don't. Add that to my previous posts, and this will all look like a paranoid collective hallucination, but that's just my perspective.

For sure, you can take that not knowing and allow yourself to sit with that, and you can actually begin to see these laws unfolding on their own, without even needing to interpret them.  I did that a few summers ago where I sat outside daily for two weeks, all day and just observed nature without touching it.  My family lived in the forest and I began to see patterns within how things functioned.  I do agree that they are complicated.  I am only just beginning to scratch the surface, and I think that these laws go so deep that you would actually need to have an understanding of the natural world in a way that I wasn't raised with - like, you would need to be initiated into it and taught from a child like the way we teach children in school - daily lessons that have been collected and passed down.  But we don't have that stuff in the modern world anymore.
I don't think you can outsmart the universe, but you can come to work with it, to communicate with it - the universe wants humans to be aware of it through themselves, and that is one of the main points of evolution is to witness these things playing out.  I don't think the universe is dumb at all, I think it is alive, with purpose and drive and very capable of creating amazing things.  
I'm doing my best to understand, but my key state is this:  I don't know - if I hollow myself out with the lack of knowing, then this knowing will come into me of it's own accord.  And if it is wrong, I don't hold it too tightly, I can let it go.  And then... I do.  I let it go, and it comes back again.  I add this perspective along with complete death awareness, and a prying into my psychology and I will go at this for many hours at a time until something gives way.  I think the main problem people have is that they don't have the time in their lives to sit and observe things the way I do.  I have all the time in the world to crack this open all day every day and work on it until I drop dead.  When you are able to sit with yourself uninterrupted like this, thing can start to work through you, the reason being they want to make themselves known.
But whenever I access this state - it is as you say, the complexity behind it is so advanced, that I would have to be something else entirely to ever understand all that goes into it. 

11 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Well, maybe you're feeling this way because, on some level, you want things to be this way.

If:

1. Consciousness says something useful about reality.
2. Those cultures really understood consciousness deeply.

Then why were these cultures wiped out? If the ways of our ancestors did not help them survive, what value do they hold for us?

Actions create reactions, I agree. But it's more like butterfly effect than a controlled laboratory environment. Reality is more like an open box, not a small fish pond. You don't just put A and get B. It doesn't work like that. Science is very successful precisely because it can establish a controlled environment with as few variables as possible. The less variables the better and easier it becomes to understand a phenomenon. The more moving pieces the harder and more complex it becomes. And reality at the highest levels is like that. We don't have the powers to control that environment. It's way beyond our control or understanding. Though, sharp intuition does go a long ways, so you might be onto something there. Personally, I just don't know.

They were wiped out due to encroachment and disease - humans are violent and territorial.  Their ways did help them survive, but there is always a stronger culture that comes in and damages the progress they made.  They hold a lot of value, in that the different worldviews that people have make up portions of reality that one single culture can't come to - due to restrictions in how they think.  Your society/culture puts into you a certain way of viewing the world and that is hard to change.  If we could take the best from every culture and blend this together, we would as a species have a more accurate understanding of reality.

I agree with what you've written below, and I like that you're poking holes in this as your questions and concerns are ones that I have myself - I don't have many answers to these things, just some observations and moments of clarity, but if one were to get really detailed, as in, writing a few volumes on the process of societal change, I wouldn't know where to start or even how to articulate what I've seen in a way that could be used by most people.  It simply isn't accessible to most people, which is the problem.  It order to make these changes, people need to become aware of these energies and if a collective did this and we pooled all of our findings, then we would have the full scope.

My experiences have lead to these exact questions - how do we change things when reality is so very complex?  And the only answer that I got that  seemed workable was to bring people back into a state of being able to work with nature instead of against it.  If you look at the findings people have made through observation of nature's perfect designs, we could emulate this, and perhaps the more we do as a species, the farther we would get with putting together the whole puzzle.  I'll bet it goes deep.

I don't know, either.  But I feel it, the laws of nature, and the things that keep watch over all of it - and they call out to me and tell me that humanity needs to seek better ways, that those ways are encoded within the design of mother nature.