What is the right wing’s obsession with objectivity all about?

[Romanov]

I am not saying that the left can’t or is not objective, but I prefer to stay true to the stereotype of the left being more about subjectivity and the right being more about objectivity since there is some truth to it and is usually how most people perceive it to be anyways. In fact, I would go as far as saying that it is in the left’s best interest to double down on the subjectivity/consciousness aspect rather than to make objective arguments against other objective arguments which only muddies the water more. 
 

Anyways, when I see right wing propaganda, I usually see very objective statements being made which gets their own riled up. Examples are, “There are only two genders”, “Men can’t get pregnant.” What astounds me is that the people who believe men can’t get pregnant, are also the same people who believe a woman is ‘wearing the pants and being the man’ when she makes all the decisions in a relationship. It’s as if that there is actually some overlap in beliefs between the right and the left, except that the intention behind them is different. For example, believing that a woman is being a man by making all the decisions, further lends itself to men blaming women and avoiding personal responsibility (which is actually not very masculine after all) and is one of the reasons we end up with ‘fake alphas’.

I used to be very conservative at one point, because I was raised in a conservative family. However, I have found people such as Eckhart Tolle, Osho, etc. to deeply influence me for the longest time. It just left a bad taste in my mouth conforming to all these conservative views whilst having this strong inclination towards spirituality, love, consciousness. I have also naturally opposed Christian fundamentalism growing up, so all of these Christian motives coming from the right wing such as being against abortion, was always a turn off for me. 
 

The right is for the most part, so focused on being confined to its ‘thought box’, that I can’t find a shred of creativity in its propaganda. Even their comedy is straight ranting most of the time. 
 

Thoughts?

[Leo Gura]

Of course. Because the conservative worldview is absolutistic, black & white, right vs wrong, good vs evil.

It takes a very sophisticated mind to start to understand relativity & subjectivity.

A simplistic mind thinks that reality is made up of rigid black & white categories. A nuanced mind knows better.

Edited October 8, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Romanov]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course. Because the conservative worldview is absolutistic, black & white, right vs wrong, good vs evil.

It takes a very sophisticated mind to start to understand relativity & subjectivity.

A simplistic mind thinks that reality is made up of rigid black & white categories. A nuanced mind knows better.

Right, and even psychologists associate black/white, absolutist thinking with negative behaviors. You would think that the party which touts individualism would also promote subjectivity and consciousness.

[Leo Gura]

@Romanov Dude, these idiots barely understand what democracy and seperation of church and state are.

Edited October 8, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Romanov]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Romanov Dude, these idiot ms barely understand what democracy and seperation of church and state are.

They claim the U.S. is a Christian nation, yet the Treaty of Tripoli with a unanimous Senate vote has  John Adams literally saying that the U.S. is not a Christian nation. “In God We Trust” on currency  and “One nation under God” for the pledge wasn’t even added until the 50s.

And then there’s the front of patriotism yet there is cowering when it comes to Putin and his threats under the guise of “worrying about our own people” instead. 
 

I have a student loan that’s been looming over my head for over a decade and definitely stopped paying it off as soon as Biden took office. It was not due to “making a poor decision that I’m responsible for”, but because my father told me it was either college or be homeless at the men’s shelter. Conservatives oppose student loans yet when pressed about social security and Medicare, they claim it’s their own money. It seems pretty backwards for someone else to withhold your money only to give it back to you later unless…the entire thing was implemented in order for the elderly to have some sort of assistance. They’ll also support PPP business loans as if a business’s success is a right (while they argue that healthcare and education is not). 

Edited October 8, 2022 by Romanov

[Leo Gura]

@Romanov Of course, it's just bald-faced selfishness.

Edited October 8, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Romanov]

3 hours ago, Oeaohoo said:

@Romanov Surely you can see that the present obsession with individual self-expression and subjective identity is not sustainable? “We live in a society” of narcissists carefully cultivating their own subjective bubbles of self-aggrandising feedback loops. What is even more bizarre is that all of this selfishness takes place under a rhetoric of global compassion, liberal democratic advances and humanitarianism! We emphasise objectivity on the Right partly because our culture is very one-sidedly subjectivistic but primarily because the true Right stands for eternal values.

I don’t equate self-expression and subjectivity with selfishness, but rather consciousness. The formless aspect of existence. 
 

I see nothing wrong with the rhetoric of global compassion, but more as something that’s been long overdue and even more dire given what’s happening in Eastern Europe. 
 

If the true right stands for eternal values, what are those values and where do they come from? If they come from a god….well to that I’d say that the assertion of a god is an unfalsifiable claim. It’s a lot like me saying there is a dragon in my garage which can’t be seen, but it’s there. I can’t prove it, but no one can disprove it either. So my question is, eternal values according to whom?

Edited October 8, 2022 by Romanov

[Ulax]

17 hours ago, Romanov said:

I am not saying that the left can’t or is not objective, but I prefer to stay true to the stereotype of the left being more about subjectivity and the right being more about objectivity since there is some truth to it and is usually how most people perceive it to be anyways. In fact, I would go as far as saying that it is in the left’s best interest to double down on the subjectivity/consciousness aspect rather than to make objective arguments against other objective arguments which only muddies the water more. 
 

Anyways, when I see right wing propaganda, I usually see very objective statements being made which gets their own riled up. Examples are, “There are only two genders”, “Men can’t get pregnant.” What astounds me is that the people who believe men can’t get pregnant, are also the same people who believe a woman is ‘wearing the pants and being the man’ when she makes all the decisions in a relationship. It’s as if that there is actually some overlap in beliefs between the right and the left, except that the intention behind them is different. For example, believing that a woman is being a man by making all the decisions, further lends itself to men blaming women and avoiding personal responsibility (which is actually not very masculine after all) and is one of the reasons we end up with ‘fake alphas’.

I used to be very conservative at one point, because I was raised in a conservative family. However, I have found people such as Eckhart Tolle, Osho, etc. to deeply influence me for the longest time. It just left a bad taste in my mouth conforming to all these conservative views whilst having this strong inclination towards spirituality, love, consciousness. I have also naturally opposed Christian fundamentalism growing up, so all of these Christian motives coming from the right wing such as being against abortion, was always a turn off for me. 
 

The right is for the most part, so focused on being confined to its ‘thought box’, that I can’t find a shred of creativity in its propaganda. Even their comedy is straight ranting most of the time. 
 

Thoughts?

I think its because the sense of objectivity meets these folk's need for clarity, stability and understanding of the world.

Also, i think the stage orange and blue worldview that I think conservatives have is very reliant on the maintenance of the idea of objectivism. And I think in their discourse objectivism is a default position. I think saying there is no objectivity to them is probably the same as telling them the sky is gay. However, to my mind, there are countless contradictions and incoherence's that arise in the maintenance of that belief, and to maintain their sense of stability, perhaps, they choose to just continually deny reality, and deny objections, creating elaborate rationalisations to back up their points of view.

However, I'd guess that their lives have been pervasively defined by a subculture and upbringing that mirrors these traits of right wing ideology. Say ideas around punishment/ reward style parenting, church as centre of community, being an outcast at school etc. 

I'd like to share my story actually. I think it could shed some light on a type of personality who becomes a right winger.

I used to be right wing myself up until around 20. I was a proud and vocal right wing libertarian who believed in laissez-faire economics. I saw myself as being part of a movement to say western civilization, tho I was civil in how I went about it.

I have tried to become conscious of why I adopted the movement so strongly. I'd say my father's behaviour was often authoritarian, controlling, plus also neglectful. And I think that was the key starting point. When I reflect on why the right wingers appealed specifically I think it was because it met a lot of needs that other things didn't meet.

The certainty of the messaging, i.e. from ben shapiro or milo yiannopolous seems big. Met my need for a sense of clarity and understanding of the world. The idea of institutional racism being a myth met my need for stability and sense of acceptance. Plus the right wingers approach met my need for empathy, and sense of being understood and that I actually belonged. I would often feel a sense of mistrust towards the right wing talking points and also a sense that I wasn't critically examining them, but I would quickly rationalise that, tho doubt would remain.

I think being right wing just simply fit my survival strategy at the time. I think I got out because I happened to have a friend who had bipolar disorder/ npd. So some of the time he would be highly authoritarian and grandiose, which I think met many of my needs like the right wing stuff did. However, when he wasn't in the manic/ grandiose bipolar state, he was also a passionate left winger who seemed adept at politics and caring about people's interests. 

Consequently, I think the authoritarianism of him met the same needs as the right wing authoritarianism did. Further, I had more needs met by the left wing understanding of the world compared to the right wing one I was used to. Reason being because I wanted to be accepted by him and also it produced less cognitive dissonance in me.

Nowadays, I'd say I'm more able to think for myself due to consciousness work. Although, I'd say I only really got out by luck. I find it kinda shocking to contemplate about what the  root of my behaviour was in the past and how i was seemingly not aware of it.