Russia and Ukraine making me feel nervous

[no_name]

7 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

it's just intellectualy dishonest to call me a pro-russian, lol. I've personally done a pretty good holistic analysis of a situation, so I think I have a rather integrative overview on it all. All I'm doing is just pointing at your misunderstandings of a situation and some missing pieces of the whole picture. Which is what Leo tries to do in this topic too. This forum obviously has a very western leaning (and I guess I lean western as well), so it's unsurprising to see that you guys don't really bother that much to study non-western POV and understand it, but still

And I have personally noticed that even many Russian “liberals”, sadly, still repeat and buy into many of the russian lies and propaganda. They are still better than the average russian though, but I was shocked at some of the things they say.  
 

Also, just because you keep saying and labelling yourself as “objective”, doesn’t mean you are.

Edited October 9, 2022 by no_name

[Hello from Russia]

4 minutes ago, no_name said:

Lol, I definitely know the history of Ukraine better than you do. Especially because the way history is taught in Russia, and even in Ukraine during the Soviet Union, was highly distorted and untrue. 

 

Meh, sorry, but you just keep making strawmans, that's ridiculous 

FYI, I stopped going to school in Russia after like 7th grade and before 7th grade I was constantly running from classes, so I was lucky to not receive as much propaganda as my peers in that regard, which in big turn helped me also to develop myself so that we are now speaking on this forum and not on some reddit or 4chan

Based on your distorted view in your posts you definetely have no idea about Ukraine's history just like most westerners, which is why I suggest you go study it in some unbiased source (or study versions of both sides - will be even better for overall understanding)

Edited October 9, 2022 by Hello from Russia

[Hello from Russia]

3 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

Helloooo, a crazy fucking dictator has just attacked a pieceful country causing mass death and suffering on both sides, and is now threatening the world with nuclear annihilation cause he is loosing and has no more tricks up his sleeve.

Lol

Anyways, I'm out of here, you're definetely are not valuing understanding or truth, good luck finding people to talk to. I suggest to go to some reddit or telegram channels with your combative attitude, you'll belong very well there.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Hello from Russia

[Hello from Russia]

3 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

Go on! Stop running around claiming intellectual superiority and point out an actual misunderstanding of the situation in my posts and then explain why it is wrong in your opinion.

Your claims are simply too ridicolous and biased to spend my time deconstructing it, go educate yourself (at least with legit western sources), or find better things to do

Edited October 9, 2022 by Hello from Russia

[Hello from Russia]

1 hour ago, no_name said:

 

Ahh, that explains a lot. Go watch all videos on Leo's channel, then we'll talk

Edited October 9, 2022 by OBEler
no_name deleted post already and wants the quote to be deleted, too

[no_name]

25 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

it's just intellectualy dishonest to call me a pro-russian, lol. I've personally done a pretty good holistic analysis of a situation, so I think I have a rather integrative overview on it all. All I'm doing is just pointing at your misunderstandings of a situation and some missing pieces of the whole picture. Which is what Leo tries to do in this topic too. This forum obviously has a very western leaning (and I guess I lean western as well), so it's unsurprising to see that you guys don't really bother that much to study non-western POV and understand it, but still

Leo understands very little of what’s going on in this war and he himself spits out a lot of russian propaganda claiming that he is just trying to be unbiased.
 

I mean… He recommended here a few months ago to watch Oliver Stone’s documentary on Putin. Oliver Stone who is a long time Putin’s buddy… If that doesn’t tell you how clueless Leo is, idk what else will… 

Edited October 9, 2022 by no_name

[no_name]

1 minute ago, Hello from Russia said:

Ahh, that explains a lot. Go watch all videos on Leo's channel, then we'll talk

All videos on Leo’s channel? I’ve outgrown Leo years ago, I started watching him in 2014 lol ? 

But anyways, you sound very toxic, you don’t even make any arguments, just talk about how unbiased and meta you are and attack people without having a clue of their background. I am going to assume you’re a little child and move on. 

[no_name]

1 minute ago, KH2 said:

@Hello from Russia These responses to you made me realize, how important it is to know how to do proper epistomology, and having a properly non-biased mind. When Russians first attacked, my responses to this situation used to be the same. Since I'm living in a country right next to Ukraine, I was fearfull of what's gonna happen. But, this is all just emotional thinking, and fear - the way fear skews the human thinking, it's incredible. It's almost involuntary

Sorry, but how exactly pointing out the extreme ridiculousness of “Ukrainians are Nazis” propaganda an example of “emotional thinking”? 

 

[Hello from Russia]

1 hour ago, KH2 said:

@Hello from Russia These responses to you made me realize, how important it is to know how to do proper epistomology, and having a properly non-biased mind. When Russians first attacked, my responses to this situation used to be the same. Since I'm living in a country right next to Ukraine, I was fearfull of what's gonna happen. But, this is all just emotional thinking, and fear - the way fear skews the human thinking, it's incredible. It's almost involuntary

Yeah, I feel you, it indeed hijacks our animalistic minds in a big way

---- 

[edited] @Something Funny
I didn't realize I was speaking to actual Ukrainians here and that one of them is female. I want to actually say sorry for being so dismissive.  I am personally very sorry about what's going in your country right now and I think it's a disaster. There are many different factors at play of course, but we all cannot deny that people are dying and there are a lot of civilian casualties on both sides which is shit.

All I can say that both of our countries are extremely corrupt and they don't really deserve to have the likes of us in them. I hope this corruption will end soon but realistically speaking it's not gonna be that fast

I hope we will all one day stand together as brothers and settle our differences so we won't have to have this bullshit that is going on right now

We can then count who has more nazis in our countries together 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Osaid

[Hello from Russia]

14 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

@Hello from Russia 

But do you seriously not see an issue here? Why are we even talking about nazis in the first place insread of addressing what actually matters?

Dude, I agreed with Leo that nazis are not #1 problem and cause of all this bullshit happening, you can read it in a few pages behind

All my point was is that there are actual nazis in Ukraine and it is influencing the situation. No, i'm not saying that 100% of ukrainians are nazi, not 50%, not even 25%, but there is some % and they are creating some trouble

14 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

Do you seriously not see how Russia is the main cause which is forcing Ukraine to radicalize and prevents it from healing, dealing with its internal corruption and moving up the spiral?

Right now sure, it all makes most ukrainians basically naturally hate russians, and hate for a good reason

Edited October 9, 2022 by Hello from Russia

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, no_name said:

Ukrainian army has a noble cause though. After you’ve watched your cities destroyed, your women and children being raped, tortured and murdered, you don’t need to be “far right” to develop strong hate for russhists.

Every morning (this was today) you see the news of russian missiles hitting multiple civilian objects and apartment buildings. You want to protect those poor innocent people dying every day.

Yeah, but the point was about pre-war. There has been fighting in that part of Ukraine before Russia invaded which they have used as pretext for the invasion.

I don't really know who started it and who did what. It's a mess. I'm just saying there's nationalists on both sides which throw fuel on the fire. Of course at this point Russia has committed many atrocities during the war and fighting back is necessary.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Leo Gura

[no_name]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Yeah, but the point was about pre-war. There has been fighting in that part of Ukraine before Russia invaded which they have used a pretext for the invasion.

Yes, but the fighting that started in 2014 was also sponsored by russia..

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, no_name said:

Yes, but the fighting that started in 2014 was also sponsored by russia..

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure there were nationalists on the Ukraine side too who were engaged in local violence.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Leo Gura

[no_name]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure there were nationalists on the Ukraine side too who were engaged in local violence.

In the eastern Ukraine? That’s impossible. 

Edited October 9, 2022 by no_name

[Hello from Russia]

In a sense what they are saying is true in that Russia was trying very heavily to interfere with Ukrainian affairs all these years. Trying to elect pro-Russian president for example and so forth and people was aware about what's going on

It's not really as simple as Russia\Putin or Ukraine\Ukrainians or Nazis or West are good/bad, there is a deeper systemic issue at play that is more values-based. For Ukraine, being a Pro-Russian means basically to go for this orderly-like society with iron fist as a main issue solver and slowdown on all pluralistic goodies that are prominent in the west right now

But the majority of Ukrainians truly don't want it, there is actually something unique about Ukraine ethnic and that is they are extremely freedom loving as a culture. It is a Cossacks culture, they don't want USSR-esque bullshit.

That's why there was always some conflict and some sort of codependence between Russian ethnics and Ukrainians even within Russian Empire because of this presise issue. They don't want to sit at Saint-Petersburg or Moscow and write some bullshit poems, they want to be at nature and enjoy life, they want to build no empire unlike Russian people. That's basically Ukrainian POV in a nutshell

That's why there also was and is a strong big hippie movement in Ukraine. In a sense, among all post-soviet countries, Ukraine is the greenest of them all. They can take weed there freely and noone will bat an eye, there is a huge psychedelic movement in Karpaty' region because shrooms are basically under each tree and only the lazy won't experiment with them

But there are also nazis 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Hello from Russia

[Hello from Russia]

11 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

You hear part of that, but then also hear stuff like how western Ukraine is more liberal and developed then its eastern counterpart. Plus, you are geographically closer to western Ukraine while east is more foreign and harder to understand for you.

Yep, the issue is that eastern parts of Ukraine were never really Ukrainian until USSR shinagans and its collapse, hence they just have predominantly Russian culture here, that's why it is so different and that's why there were these civic disturbances and wars and that's why they pretty much hate each other

With or without Russia, there was an ethnic conflict inside Ukraine in this region, which is basically culture/ethnicity based, you can call it nazism or not, it doesn't matter. It didn't have to be resolved with such cruelty from both Ukrainian forces side (Before 2022) and from Russian forces, that's for sure, but it is what it is

Edited October 9, 2022 by Hello from Russia

[Leo Gura]

50 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

@Leo Gura what she is saying is thay there would be no fighting there in the first place if it wasn't for Russia. LNR and DNR didn't just decide to separate on their own out of the blue. This whole thing was planned and orchestrated by Russia which used Ukrainian unstable political situation after maidan.

There is a mix of Russians and Ukrainians living in that region, so things are not so clear cut.

Of course there is manipulation by Russia. But also it is the case that many Russians live there. It's a classic dispute over ethnic boundaries with both sides having their own justifications for where the lines should be draw.

Is Crimea Russian or Ukrainian? Who the fuck is to say? People have differing opinions about that depending on your view of history and various biases and agendas you might have.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Hello from Russia]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Is Crimea Russian or Ukrainian? Who the fuck is to say?

And now both civilian Ukrainians and Russians are afraid to go here on vacations, lol, me included

So it's basically the turn for Russian combatans to chill here on a beach and enjoy mountain's air, cause it's heavily militarized now 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Hello from Russia

[no_name]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is a mix of Russians and Ukrainians living in that region, so things are not so clear cut.

Of course there is manipulation by Russia. But also it is the case that many Russians live there. It's a classic dispute over ethnic boundaries with both sides having their own justifications for where the lines should be draw.

Is Crimea Russian or Ukrainian? Who the fuck is to say?

The “nazis” live in the western Ukraine. Unless you are saying that for some reason the “nazis” from western Ukraine travelled all the way to the east of Ukraine to abuse the russian speaking population there… what you’re saying just doesn’t make sense whatsoever. 

Is Alaska American? Who’s to say?

Ukraine has been investing in the infrastructure in Crimea, developing its economy, etc., for years. You can’t just come and chop a peace of land away because you desire to do so..

Edited October 9, 2022 by no_name

[Hello from Russia]

9 minutes ago, no_name said:

The “nazis” live in the western Ukraine. Unless you are saying that for some reason the “nazis” from western Ukraine travelled all the way to the east of Ukraine to abuse the russian speaking population there… what you’re saying just doesn’t make sense whatsoever. 

Is Alaska American? Whose to say?

I don't mean to be offensive at all, but so called "Nazis" are actually situated pretty close to Donbass region if we are to believe the story. 

They say the most famous nazi battalion is Azov - which is named for its proximity to Azov Sea, which is on the east of Ukraine. And their base is believed to be in Mariopol, which is in the east as well and very close to Donbass.

So they didn't really need to travel anywhere, they were very close

I really really don't mean to be offensive, but most Ukrainians from Kiev and western Ukraine are oblivious regarding what's was going on to the east of them, people that are 20-35 just simply didn't care and didn't bother to study it, because why  would they?

And I don't judge you or them, If I were from western Ukraine, I probably wouldn't care at all about what's going on here

Edited October 9, 2022 by Hello from Russia