Russia and Ukraine making me feel nervous

[Revolutionary Think]

Why I'm going there the end of this month lol

[Tefikos]

1 hour ago, Guru Peter Jordanson said:

I hope they will nuke Finland into oblivion. Then the space cops will come and rescue the rest of us.

Hey, that's not funny?

[Leo Gura]

This is a great analysis:

 

[Revolutionary Think]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is a great analysis:

 

I put the exact same thing on the last page. (Great minds think alike... well I guess in the end we're all the same people. Although I don't want to be Putin lol )

[Hello from Russia]

The thing is, Russian people as a culture and as an etnic are very conformist but up to a point. If people are treated badly enough for long enough time or the bullshit that is going on is too big, historically, Russians just make a revolution

So I wouldn't lose hope that much on that matter. I'm sure if things get out of hand, Russian ordinary people will actually start doing something 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Hello from Russia

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

If people are treated badly enough for long enough time or the bullshit that is going on is too big, historically, Russians just make a revolution

Hehe, that's not just Russians, that's all people everywhere.

You can't oppress a group of people indefinitely. It has never worked in human history.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Hello from Russia]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Hehe, that's not just Russians, that's all people everywhere.

You can't oppress a group of people indefinitely. It has never worked in human history.

True, the problem is Putin is not stupid

We have tons of new subsidy programs going right now for people who are patriotically minded and want to help build infrastructure for them.

They are basically flushing money onto people right now and giving them a life purpose as into rebuilding the great Russia together. A little bit like Maga feel, but way more subsidies and more smart people following it

I myself even got some free tax exemtps and goodies, lol, despite me having almost 0 to do actively participating inside Russian economy, all the business I've done for the past 3-5 years was abroad clients

Edited October 9, 2022 by Hello from Russia

[Leo Gura]

@Hello from Russia Putin is a clever fox.

[Roy]

On 10/7/2022 at 2:41 AM, Devin said:

He's been getting his ass kicked and he just conscripted more to go into slaughter, he cannot win conventionally and that's more than apparent, yet he's still sacrificing his people. That's definitely not rational.

It's completely rational, because Russia is going to win and make territorial gains in this war. The rest of the world doesn't want to step in and escalate things, and he has Europe by the balls cutting off their gas supply for the winter. He will sacrifice whatever he thinks is necessary. He doesn't give shit how many Russians have to die lol.

We can slice it however we want and count the losses, but if Putin comes out of this personally more wealthy, secure, popular, and can solidify his political control even tighter for the rest of his life before he goes senile, then that's a win in his book. Everything is expendable when you are uncontrollably selfish and power hungry.

He will cast Russia's future and prosperity for the next 100 years into a bottomless pit if it means 15 more years of superyachts, women, mansions, and dominance within the country for him.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Roy

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, Roy said:

He will cast Russia's future and prosperity for the next 100 years into a bottomless pit if it means 15 more years of superyachts, women, mansions, and dominance within the country for him.

Putin is not doing this for personal gain. He's doing it to strengthen Russia's geo-political power on the world stage. He wants Russia to be a respected and formidable super-power again. He's doing it so that we no longer have a monopolar world order dominated by the West. He's doing it to increase Russian sovereignty, because he is a patriot and nationalist at heart and he wants Russia to be respected.

Basically, this is a war about respect and sovereignty.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Joel3102]

38 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Hello from Russia Putin is a clever fox.

How is this rational? Crushing economic sanctions from half the world, uniting Europe and the West again and has strengthened NATO given Sweden and Finland now want to join.

[Roy]

@Leo Gura I am having a hard time seeing that. Why not just bury some hatchets and be more friendly towards the West/NATO so they can benefit from trade deals and stability? The people that lived through the Cold War are starting to die, and the rivalry is more of a memory. Hell it's not even the Soviet Union anymore, the countries that broke off don't even like Russia either.

It makes me think of this meme. Putin - "I wanted to restore mother Russia to former glory and much power.... by starting a war that will impose crippling economic sanctions and make all your lives worse." Russian Pleb - "Good job."

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Roy

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Joel3102 said:

How is this rational? Crushing economic sanctions from half the world, uniting Europe and the West again and has strengthened NATO given Sweden and Finland now want to join.

Rational doesn't mean you can't miscalculate. His calculation was that the Russian military would overwhelm the Ukrainian military. This was a reasonable calculation.

It's also not rational from Russia's perspective to sit back and just allow Ukraine to become a staging ground for NATO nuclear missile launch sites.

10 minutes ago, Roy said:

@Leo Gura I am having a hard time seeing that. Why not just bury some hatchets and be more friendly towards the West/NATO so they can benefit from trade deals and stability?

Because NATO would start installing nuclear missiles sites in Ukraine.

Quote

It makes me think of this meme. Putin - "I wanted to restore mother Russia to former glory and much power.... by starting a war that will impose crippling economic sanctions and make all your lives worse." Russian Pleb - "Good job."

That's not as contradictory as you think. Putin basically wants to create a independent geo-political pole to the West. This will involve some short-term suffering for long-term gain in power and autonomy.

He also could not allow Ukraine to join NATO without a fight.

Putin basically sees NATO as a virus that is spreading across Europe to infect the Russia empire.

You're not really seeing the Russian agenda. You are looking at this from a Western agenda. Which is not sufficient to make sense of the situation. It is not the case that Putin is just a greedy bad guy.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Rational doesn't mean you can't miscalculate. His calculation was that the Russian military would overwhelm the Ukrainian military. This was a reasonable calculation.

It's also not rational from Russia's perspective to sit back and just allow Ukraine to become a staging ground for NATO nuclear missile launch sites.

Because NATO would start installing nuclear missiles sites in Ukraine.

That's not as contradictory as you think. Putin basically wants to create a independent geo-political pole to the West. This will involve some short-term suffering for long-term gain in power and autonomy from the West.

I understand the point you're trying to make, but how do we know for sure that the reason that Putin is doing this is not because he is simply a megalomaniac?

How do you know for certain that Putin truly cares at all about the well-being of his country?

 

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Hardkill

[Hello from Russia]

14 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

I understand the point you're trying to make, but how do we know for sure that the reason that Putin is doing this is not because he is simply a megalomaniac?

How do you know for certain that Putin truly cares at all about the well-being of his country?

 

 

Study him and his politics, bro

He is basically like Trump, but more skilled and wise. Very good for conservative people, not so much for progressives and liberals

In a sense, yachts are a childish pleasure, Putin and people like him like to play something more serious and get the joy out of it

Edited October 9, 2022 by Hello from Russia

[Joel3102]

40 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Rational doesn't mean you can't miscalculate. His calculation was that the Russian military would overwhelm the Ukrainian military. This was a reasonable calculation.

Even if it went well, still don't think it's rational for the wellbeing of Russia. NATO is stronger now than ever regardless, there would still be massive sanctions in return for some extra land?

 

42 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Because NATO would start installing nuclear missiles sites in Ukraine.

 

Don't think they would. NATO could already station missiles on Russia's border via the baltic states and they don't. I believe the closest is Romania and Poland. Regardless, the nuclear missile site location is kind of a red herring anyway, the tech is so advanced that Russia and America could obliterate each other regardless of where the missiles are stationed.

All this talk of the West and Russian motivations, what about Ukraine? The countries sovereignty itself gets overlooked in these geopolitical conversations. Pretty sure the people in Ukraine now aren't happy about being massacred by Russia and wish they were in NATO right now. 

[Hardkill]

8 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

Study him and his politics, bro

He is basically like Trump, but more skilled and wise. Very good for conservative people, not so much for progressives and liberals

In a sense, yachts are a childish pleasure, Putin and people like him like to play something more serious and get the joy out of it

So, then why has he lied about the rights he allows his people to have? 

He said before that he believes that Russia must allow freedom of speech and freedom of the press, but in reality he doesn't allow for any real freedom of press or any political dissent? 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Hardkill said:

I understand the point you're trying to make, but how do we know for sure that the reason that Putin is doing this is not because he is simply a megalomaniac?

How do you know for certain that Putin truly cares at all about the well-being of his country?

Listen to his interviews, speeches, and study his life.

He does not behave at all like what you suggest he is.

55 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

Study him and his politics, bro

He is basically like Trump

He's not at all like Trump.

Trump is a shallow moron and coward. Putin is a genius and patriot.

22 minutes ago, Joel3102 said:

Even if it went well, still don't think it's rational for the wellbeing of Russia. NATO is stronger now than ever regardless, there would still be massive sanctions in return for some extra land?

You are not considering how much stronger NATO would be if Putin just let the West slowly co-opt Ukraine and turn it into their staging ground.

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Don't think they would. NATO could already station missiles on Russia's border via the baltic states and they don't. I believe the closest is Romania and Poland. Regardless, the nuclear missile site location is kind of a red herring anyway, the tech is so advanced that Russia and America could obliterate each other regardless of where the missiles are stationed.

And yet, consider how American politicians would react if Russia co-opted Mexico and placed missile silos in Tijuana.

Quote

All this talk of the West and Russian motivations, what about Ukraine? The countries sovereignty itself gets overlooked in these geopolitical conversations. Pretty sure the people in Ukraine now aren't happy about being massacred by Russia and wish they were in NATO right now. 

In practice Ukraine is not powerful enough to have a voice in this.

This is a proxy war over who controls Ukraine, Russia or the West. From Putin's POV Ukraine is just a puppet for the West. Ukraine has no power without the West and it does the West's bidding. Also, Putin considers Ukraine as part of Russia, historically. To give it up to the West is like a huge betrayal of loyalty.

I'm not saying Putin is right. I'm just saying, try seeing the situation from a non-Western perspective.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Joel3102]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Putin is a genius and patriot.

Hitler was a patriot too, and probably a political genius in a lot of ways.

The West and the US is absolutely in the right to be supporting Ukraine and not allowing the precedent of blatant annexation of other countries. 

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Joel3102 said:

Hitler was a patriot too, and probably a political genius in a lot of ways.

Hitler comparisons will not help you understand this situation.

Quote

The West and the US is absolutely in the right to be supporting Ukraine and not allowing the precedent of blatant annexation of other countries. 

Maybe. I'm not really arguing for or against that here. There is a larger issue of NATO and Western hegemony which everyone in the West just ignores. But Putin cannot ignore that.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Leo Gura