Do feminists and leftists hate pickup and cold approach?

[Brent Rothwell]

I'm referring to stuff like what happened in this video at (2:30) where some onlookers step in and act as if they are saving the girl from being a victim of sexual harassment and accusing the guy of being a creep just for approaching a girl and trying to flirt.

But I don't think he did anything wrong and I can relate to what happened to him because of
how I've experienced situations similar to this where I'm being totally friendly and respectful on the approach but then the people that were nearby watching start losing their minds and act as if the girl is a victim and I'm somehow the aggressor. Even though I'm still trying to be socially calibrated but it's still not good enough for them.

And it's like they just don't think that it's ok for a male to talk to a female on the street for any reason as if it's a crime. So I'm wondering what is the psychology that is fueling these hostile reactions that people give when seeing a guy cold
approach a woman and does it actually have anything to do with feminism like the title of the video suggests?

 

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Brent Rothwell

[Ulax]

I'll have a go at making some guesses.

One because there is a greater public awareness of pick up artists these days. So some will have a certain understanding of what the intention and mindset is of these pick up guys that comes from that awareness. From what I've seen it tends to be a negative perception. And then they project that understanding onto the pick up guy.

Also, though pick up is legal, its outside of social norms, so people feel less of a sense of stability, and perhaps by devaluing pick up guys, they have a greater sense of stability.

Also, I'd say there are lots of other incentives for criticising and devaluing pick up behaviours. I.e. opportunity to gain acceptance and trust amongst one's peer group. For example, a guy walking with group of girls. Or i.e. people don't accept the part of themselves which goes against social norms, and so project the contempt they hold for that part of themselves onto someone who they see going against social norms.

[Leo Gura]

Dude, there will always be girls who simply hate you for no good reason. Stop focusing on that.

If you approach enough girls, eventually one of them will tell her boyfriend to stab you with a knife.

And yet, you go out and approach. Stop being a pussy.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Brent Rothwell]

@Leo Gura What is the best way to respond when stuff like this happens though because I don't really see any dating coaches or PUAs giving advice about what to do when interactions go seriously bad? Are you just supposed to maintain the fun and flirty vibe no matter what happens?

Edited October 5, 2022 by Brent Rothwell

[Brent Rothwell]

@Ulax

2 hours ago, Ulax said:

I'll have a go at making some guesses.

One because there is a greater public awareness of pick up artists these days. So some will have a certain understanding of what the intention and mindset is of these pick up guys that comes from that awareness. From what I've seen it tends to be a negative perception. And then they project that understanding onto the pick up guy.

Also, though pick up is legal, its outside of social norms, so people feel less of a sense of stability, and perhaps by devaluing pick up guys, they have a greater sense of stability.

Also, I'd say there are lots of other incentives for criticising and devaluing pick up behaviours. I.e. opportunity to gain acceptance and trust amongst one's peer group. For example, a guy walking with group of girls. Or i.e. people don't accept the part of themselves which goes against social norms, and so project the contempt they hold for that part of themselves onto someone who they see going against social norms.

Yeah, I think that sounds like a pretty good explanation.

So it sounds like that puts a huge amount of pressure on pickup guys then because they are risking being ostracized and losing a lot of status in the eyes of others.

Which would have been a risk to survival during primitive times.

Do you have any theories to explain why we do it anyway despite the risks? 

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Brent Rothwell

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Brent Rothwell said:

@Leo Gura What is the best way to respond when stuff like this happens though because I don't really see any dating coaches or PUAs giving advice about what to do when interactions go seriously bad?

Stay calm, never fight back, apologize if you must, don't get your ego involved, back off, and treat them with respect and kindness.

It's not guaranteed to work, but it's your best shot to avoid getting stabbed.

Quote

Are you just supposed to maintain the fun and flirty vibe no matter what happens?

Pretty much yeah.

But if things get real serious you just back away and leave.

Don't forget the power of a sincrene apology.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Ulax]

50 minutes ago, Brent Rothwell said:

@Ulax

Yeah, I think that sounds like a pretty good explanation.

So it sounds like that puts a huge amount of pressure on pickup guys then because they are risking being ostracized and losing a lot of status in the eyes of others.

Which would have been a risk to survival during primitive times.

Do you have any theories to explain why we do it anyway despite the risks? 

 

I'd say, people join because they perceive its more satisfying of their needs than not joining.

it meets needs like need for significance, sex, acceptance, ease, understanding, clarity, stability. Probs lots more.

For example, I'd say it meets a need for stability and community because a lot of dudes who get into pickup, to my mind, have an outcast identity due to their adolescence and childhood. The idea of pickup as a community that operates outside of social norms meets a lot of these dude's needs for stability (i.e. keep their core identity) and also provides them community.

Also, I think you have to factor in all the subtle marketing that many of the pick up artists will use to get you to join and keep you there. I.e. I found that there is a lot of devaluing of folks who leave the community before getting regular sexual experiences, and I think that plays into people's fear of loss of acceptance and loss of significance. Creates a cult like dynamic, imo.

So, I think there a lot of dynamics at play.

Also, when other groups try to get people to stop pickup, I'd say its usually a lot of stage blue or green folks who try. To my experience, they usually demonise many aspects of pickup. From what I've seen and imagine Green folks will sometimes empathise with various parts of it but don't offer a suitable alternative way that these guys can meet their needs, plus don't account for the cult like dynamics that work to keep many of the guys in the community. Plus I don't think the green folk will be that effective with stage red guys who I'd say are relatively abundant in pickup. So, I'd also say there is the dynamic that pick up folk are not attracted attractive alternatives to pick up. Hence they stay involved.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Ulax
Spelling

[Raze]

I think the pick up community should move in Adam Lyon’s direction, he gives advice on how to game women in ways that go underneath societies radar and doesn’t offend leftists. Calling yourself a pick up artist and telling a hundred female strangers they’re cute doesn’t have a future especially online with how the internet is going.

[something_else]

It’s outside the norm of society and it’s a fairly selfish behaviour. You’re basically saying that you’re willing to annoy and creep out hundreds of women just to get some sex. I know this is not how the guy sees it but it’s how a lot of women see PUA style guys

It’s mainly a daygame issue, I’ve never had an interaction go that badly out at night because trying to hookup or flirt on a night out is a social norm

Ideally you should probably just not give a fuck, but quantitative spammy daygame like that is just going to get less and less socially acceptable as time goes on

Edited October 6, 2022 by something_else

[Axiomatic]

Well whats the alternative? Are they going to outlaw talking to strangers in public?

Actually...damn they might. That's how insane society is right now. 

[Brent Rothwell]

@something_else

12 hours ago, something_else said:

It’s outside the norm of society and it’s a fairly selfish behaviour. You’re basically saying that you’re willing to annoy and creep out hundreds of women just to get some sex. I know this is not how the guy sees it but it’s how a lot of women see PUA style guys

It’s mainly a daygame issue, I’ve never had an interaction go that badly out at night because trying to hookup or flirt on a night out is a social norm

Ideally you should probably just not give a fuck, but quantitative spammy daygame like that is just going to get less and less socially acceptable as time goes on

Do you think there is any possible way to make daytime approaches look totally natural or is it always going to be at least a little bit awkward because it's outside social norms and you just have to not give a fuck? 

I still want to use it as my main way of meeting girls even though it's harder and I really want to perfect the approach because I like it when I get super positive reactions.

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Brent Rothwell

[something_else]

1 hour ago, Brent Rothwell said:

@something_else

Do you think there is any possible way to make daytime approaches look totally natural or is it always going to be at least a little bit awkward because it's outside social norms and you just have to not give a fuck? 

I still want to use it as my main way of meeting girls even though it's harder and I really want to perfect the approach because I like it when I get super positive reactions.

 

If you want to do it in a way that is less scummy then it has to be more natural. Like not leaving your house specifically to look for girls during the day. If you see girls you are attracted to while you are going about your daily business then you approach them. That's sheer confidence and very very authentic.

It's the predatory aspect of leaving your house specifically to approach tons of girls that will rub many people up the wrong way and for good reason.

[tanman91]

On 10/6/2022 at 7:43 AM, Brent Rothwell said:

I'm referring to stuff like what happened in this video at (2:30) where some onlookers step in and act as if they are saving the girl from being a victim of sexual harassment and accusing the guy of being a creep just for approaching a girl and trying to flirt.

But I don't think he did anything wrong and I can relate to what happened to him because of
how I've experienced situations similar to this where I'm being totally friendly and respectful on the approach but then the people that were nearby watching start losing their minds and act as if the girl is a victim and I'm somehow the aggressor. Even though I'm still trying to be socially calibrated but it's still not good enough for them.

And it's like they just don't think that it's ok for a male to talk to a female on the street for any reason as if it's a crime. So I'm wondering what is the psychology that is fueling these hostile reactions that people give when seeing a guy cold
approach a woman and does it actually have anything to do with feminism like the title of the video suggests?

 

 

 

Mate, as a Sydney-sider and someone who tried an approach in Melb Central last Xmas....

Edited October 7, 2022 by tanman91
Replying to wrong person

[something_else]

2 hours ago, KH2 said:

People/girls can't possibly know whether you're "going about your business" while approaching them, or whether you've decided to spam approach people. People don't know your motives, and can't read your mind. In fact, not only they can't read your mind, but they don't care about you at all - they're all in their own selfish little worlds.

And since they don't know and don't care, you can frame the interaction however you want. If the result of an interaction is that they are viewing you as creepy/cringy approach-spammer, then that's 100% your fault, not the fault of daygame approach.

These are all just excuses for not doing cold approach during day time, which is on of the hardest things you can do socially, and thus it will grow you the most. And this is exactly the difference between purely result-oriented thinking vs. growth-oriented thinking. You can get laid without doing that and just sticking to clubs, Tinder etc. but your game will be noticably worse than that of dude's who's experienced in these cold approaches - plus, it will teach/force you to be able to have fun and produce positive feelings inside of yourself even when you feel depressed, or shitty. Amongst a whole host of other things.

It's not about whether it works or not, I know it works and that it's possible. It's about whether it's a sleazy/scummy/creepy/cringy practice or not. You have to lie about what you're doing, because if a girl did know that you were going about your town approaching a bunch of other girls during the daytime she wouldn't want to touch you with a 10ft pole

[flowboy]

14 hours ago, Brent Rothwell said:

Do you think there is any possible way to make daytime approaches look totally natural or is it always going to be at least a little bit awkward because it's outside social norms and you just have to not give a fuck? 

Gonna say something a bit out of left field here:

A good way to make whatever you do look completely natural, is to get yourself into a state where it IS completely natural (for you).

That way, the awkwardness is only on her side, and she'll get pulled into your frame.

The way I would recommend going about it, is not ejaculating for 30 days.

That way, your body will be in a state where it realises it needs to socialize.

You'll find yourself doing all kinds of things without having to force anything.

It's magic.

(sidenote: I don't condone nofap ideology. touch yourself whenever you want. just refrain from ejaculating for 4 weeks. it's simple impulse control, any adult can do it.)

[Tyler Robinson]

5 minutes ago, KH2 said:

You say that like it's a law, or a hard set rule that's guaranteed to turn off every single girl, but that's not true

HOW you say things, matters a lot more than WHAT you say anyway. You can make what you're doing sound cool, as long as it's not some completely weird or fucked up shit. And on the other hand, you can make things that are conventionally considered to be cool - like being high status, having money, wearing a rolex etc. - sound lame as fuck if you exude wrong energy. So, nothing is set in stone.

It's not set in stone. But what he is saying is a general truth. Of course not applicable to everyone. Better to err on the side of caution than to rest on exceptions. 

[something_else]

47 minutes ago, KH2 said:

You say that like it's a law, or a hard set rule that's guaranteed to turn off every single girl, but that's not true

HOW you say things, matters a lot more than WHAT you say anyway. You can make what you're doing sound cool, as long as it's not some completely weird or fucked up shit. And on the other hand, you can make things that are conventionally considered to be cool - like being high status, having money, wearing a rolex etc. - sound lame as fuck if you exude wrong energy. So, nothing is set in stone.

I'm sure it's possible but I think most women would be repelled by it if they knew what you were doing, no matter the energy. Any time I've seen guys doing cold approach videos in public, even the guys with great energy, they have never been honest about why they are out. It's always a lie

[Jacob Morres]

I've done maybe 250 approaches and never had a crazy like that. I do think they're a very small segment of the population 

I've had girls actually compliment me and say they wish more guys approached women cuz there aren't enough of them

This is was union Square NYC btw so maybe a decent place where those crazy feminists would be theoretically and no crazies 

Worst response I get usually is just a cold shoulder 

I do worry though also for these types of women. But it's never happened to me. 

Though.. not to be a fear Mongerer but girls like this DO exist. Especially in college campuses. I had a friend do PUA on campus (when he was a student there) and one of his girl friends went apeshit emotional  on him in front of all his friends and he almost got cancelled in the friend group for doing pua with women. He actually quit PuA after that Lol and got brainwashed into being an anti pua now. 

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Jacob Morres