Can't believe I'm saying this but I hate men

[Emrie]

Specifically the ones who have no social calibration whatsoever. The amount of shit I've had to deal with from toxic men is just awful. Here are five examples that come to mind, like literally off the top of my head:

1) When my brother lost his virginity, he literally told everyone. I mean ... EVERYONE. We had a party with at least like 40 people and he just told everyone there, it's INSANE! This whole macho "Oh I had sex mwahaha" bullshit, like imagine how insecure you have to be for something like this. Jesus christ!

2) I was once talking with a group of people, including one guy. The dude had no fucking social calibration whatsoever, he would start talking to me randomly when I was clearly following another conversation. And that's not the worst part, he was trying to hit on me. I was clearly not interested in him and even trying not to talk with him but he kept insisting, like TAKE A FUCKING HINT!!!!

3) I met a guy once, again through a group of friends. Literally the first question he asked me was "are you single?" ... honestly I should have said yes because then he asked me if I wanted to go to a sauna with him... *sigh* I gave him the coldest possible look and shook my head "no", he still tried to give me his fucking number after. The fuck has to be wrong in someone's head to behave like this!

4) I went to a party wearing a suit. Literally the first person who talks to me, and literally the first thing they say is "Oh you're definitely gonna get laid wearing this suit tonight". As if a fucking suit gets you laid... I had like five other people that night tell me I was trying to get laid with that. The fucking slut-shaming for wearing nice clothes is insane to me! Maybe I wear a suit because I want to look good and sex has nothing to do with it.

5) I was on a plane recently and there was a dude in front of me who spent THE ENTIRE TWO-HOUR FLIGHT writing a bio for his Tinder profile. Now, not only was it the most boring and least original bio I've ever seen, what I hated most was the attitude he and his friends had toward the whole thing, they were all like "woooow you're so gonna get laid with this awesome profile".

--

Now of course I can reframe this and understand that it's really not really all that bad.

My brother was just proud of himself and wanted to share how happy he was with the rest of us. I respect that.
I didn't outright reject the dude so it's understandable he was talking to me. And he was mostly just being friendly and showing his intentions.
The sauna guy I'm pretty sure was autistic. Autistic people shouldn't be treated as evil sexual predators, they're gonna have a harder time socially and that's okay.
People saying I was trying to get laid were actually right, I was trying to get laid.
The dude on the plane was probably just trying to find love and being himself, nothing wrong with any of that.

But still like ... where did we go wrong that guys are so badly socially calibrated? I noticed this in myself where I'm really struggling to be this really fun interesting guy who also treats people right and I tell myself that I'm the fucking bottom of the barrel, but then I have interactions like above and I realize that there are people who've got it even worse than I do!

Anyways rant over. Mods if this is too incendiary or breaking any rules, firstly I apologize, and secondly I'll be happy to take it down or you can take it down.

[something_else]

50 minutes ago, Emrie said:

where did we go wrong that guys are so badly socially calibrated?

Everyone gets far less socialisation by default in the modern world. Socialisation isn't really forced upon you anymore, you need to search for it actively. Which differs from every other time in human history.

Guys are hit especially bad because the barrier to entry for socialisation for them is higher. Both because they won't be included in groups as effortlessly as women will, and because we tend to have less natural social intuition than women too.

Basically it's quite easy to be let behind socially as a guy, and it's hard to catch up.

Edited October 3, 2022 by something_else

[Max_V]

Some men are lucky in that they are predisposed to learning social skills quickly and easily, for others it comes with a lot more difficulties. Your frustration is definitely understandable; though I'm not as crude as some of these guys you are talking about, I do actively feel frustrated with my social abilities and how much energy it costs me. I wish it all came easier to me, but alas I am the way I am and this is what I'm working with. I think the most important part is that you aim your frustration at those who choose to remain ignorant and crude as opposed to those who lack in skill but want and work to improve them.  

I hope you have better experiences in the future.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Max_V

[Roy]

I'm sure it's frustrating. Those men have to learn somehow though, women don't just fall in your lap. If you don't do anything as a guy you will go your entire life a virgin.

Rather those guys end up trying and coming off as idiots sometimes, then letting resentment fester for years before they shoot up a school or something else awful.

[NoSelfSelf]

You dont hate men you hate males big difference...

You seek experienced guy with game that knows what hes doing and those are rare, so you have to deal with this..

To become a man it takes alot of effort,skill and knowledge where some are either in the process of becoming or forever stuck in male weak mindset and being...

As a woman you dont grasp how much one has to work for to become calibrated man etc. But you dont need to know(but for your sanity is good :)) im just opening your eyes if you dont know already...

EDIT: I thought you are a woman writing this 

Why do you care what they do i mean ignore them and get rid of loser friends, nobody cares about you like that if you dont do something for them, so its a waste of time to think about them and not focusing on yourself...

Edited October 3, 2022 by NoSelfSelf

[Emrie]

1 hour ago, something_else said:

Basically it's quite easy to be let behind socially as a guy, and it's hard to catch up.

I feel that because I've experienced that, and now I'm working to catch up. At 27 years old. I think, as a society, we need to really improve this situation for all of us because it's really heartbreaking.

43 minutes ago, Max_V said:

I think the most important part is that you aim your frustration at those who choose to remain ignorant and crude as opposed to those who lack in skill but want and work to improve them.  

Yeah absolutely, the Fixed v Growth mindset. I've actually judged most people around me as Fixed, I'm probably jumping to conclusions without a huge ton of conclusive evidence on it. To be honest, I'm not even mad at fixed people, I might just decide not to deal with them, or contain how much I deal with them to specific purposes.

37 minutes ago, Roy said:

Rather those guys end up trying and coming off as idiots sometimes, then letting resentment fester for years before they shoot up a school or something else awful.

I think Leo talked about this in his get laid series, and I wholeheartedly agree. We all need to learn and improve ourselves so that we can be happy about our social, romantic, and sexual lives because that shit will eat us from the inside. Maybe my resentment towards these people is partly due to my own frustrations. I want to make it clear that I tried to be the least offensive and tried to not make them feel bad about how they were behaving, mainly because I'm scared of standing up for myself, but also because I was empathizing with them.

28 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

EDIT: I thought you are a woman writing this 

Why do you care what they do i mean ignore them and get rid of loser friends, nobody cares about you like that if you dont do something for them, so its a waste of time to think about them and not focusing on yourself...

Actually you're not too far off tbh, you could consider me to be the woman in a typical man to woman interaction with the two guys hitting on me. I'm actually bisexual, dating guys is not off the table. I do seek someone who knows what they're doing, and I do strive to develop myself and become someone who knows what they're doing as well. Out of curiosity, what do you mean "nobody cares about you like that if you don't do something for them"? Do you mean nobody wants to have sex with me when we meet? Because that's not true, those two men hitting on me very much wanted to have sex with me.

Also, just as an FYI, I identify as a demi-man. It's under the non-binary umbrella and it's someone whose gender is partially aligned with the male gender, but not completely. I was assigned the male sex at birth, but as you said "I thought you are a woman writing this", my gender expression is not completely that of a man. Though I use he/him pronouns and am happy to embody typically masculine behavior, I also have some more feminine gender expression.

[NoSelfSelf]

@Emrie You are giving me plottwist after plotwist ?

What i meant is that if you dont offer value to someone or they like you to have sex with you, if there  is apsence of either of those 2 things, people around you dont care about you, so you should not care about them because it stiffles your growth focusing on stuff that wastes time like that...

But if you are feminine then first part applys there are mostly insecure,creepy,inexperienced guys around because its tough to be a man...

So you have to deal with it and when you see weakness like that you move on...

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by NoSelfSelf

[Jacob Morres]

It's socially acceptable to hate men but if the roles were reversed you'd have 100x pink haired women call you a mysognist in the comments 

[StarStruck]

I can imagine it is hard to be a girl. But these struggles will last until you pass 30. After that male attention you get will be considerably less. And then you will open a thread why you don’t get male attention. In my opinion you should judge them if they are good hearted or not. 

Edited October 3, 2022 by StarStruck

[Alexop]

1 hour ago, Emrie said:

Also, just as an FYI, I identify as a demi-man. It's under the non-binary umbrella and it's someone whose gender is partially aligned with the male gender, but not completely. I was assigned the male sex at birth, but as you said "I thought you are a woman writing this", my gender expression is not completely that of a man. Though I use he/him pronouns and am happy to embody typically masculine behavior, I also have some more feminine gender expression.

First you should tell us this before writing this topic. 

Most of the time when you hate something, you hate yourself. Find what you don`t like about yourself.

[Ulax]

I'd consider whether you actually hate men. To my understanding, any negative emotion is a sign that some need or needs of yours are unmet.

So, it would seem to me that you feel hate and then project that hate onto men. Hence, your belief that you hate men.

Also, I sense from your example that you think people should guess your boundaries. For example, number 2, 3 and 4. I think the root of your anger could be that when people don't guess your boundaries, then you feel a lack of respect. Then invoke the strategy of judging them as a means to meet your need for respect. Just a guess.

Also, I note you said you often feel like you're bottom of the barrell. It sounds to me like you are quite status oriented in your understanding of social situations you are in. Would I be right in saying that you see non-socially calibrated people as lesser people than calibrated people? Another interpretation that comes to mind is that you are projecting the contempt that you would hold for yourself if you were to not act in a socially calibrated manner onto others.

If the above does resonate, I'm not intending to cast blame or fault on you. Instead, I'm trying to point you towards what actually might be at the root of the experiences you describe. 

[xbcc]

She likes Andrew Tate

[Bando]

On 10/3/2022 at 2:01 PM, Emrie said:

Also, just as an FYI, I identify as a demi-man. It's under the non-binary umbrella and it's someone whose gender is partially aligned with the male gender, but not completely.

This explains it starting to notice a trend here...

[Kalki Avatar]

@Emrie  Are people in switzerland also full of this bullshit macho war stereotype dating competition coming from both genders? 

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Kalki Avatar

[Leo Gura]

On 10/3/2022 at 8:32 AM, Emrie said:

But still like ... where did we go wrong that guys are so badly socially calibrated?

Cause the average guy has 10x-100x less social experience than the average girl.

[Dryas]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Cause the average guy has 10x-100x less social experience than the average girl.

Is this really true? Why?

Most guys I see around me have a lot of social experience 

[How to be wise]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Cause the average guy has 10x-100x less social experience than the average girl.

I doubt that’s true. In most bars and clubs, the guys usually outnumber the girls.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

I doubt that’s true. In most bars and clubs, the guys usually outnumber the girls.

And at most NBA games the guys are all great at jumping.

[How to be wise]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Cause the average guy has 10x-100x less social experience than the average girl.

Being in social settings more = More social experience, Mr Einstein.

[Leo Gura]

@How to be wise You think you're being smart when it's the opposite.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Leo Gura