Pros of suicide

[Yarco]

14 hours ago, The Mystical Man said:

No. There are zero pros to suicide

Of course there are. Humans aren't irrational. Why would anyone commit suicide if there was literally no upside? If they're willing to do something so extreme, obviously there must be some advantage for some people.

Can you think of any other activity that humans participate in, with zero pros? No. Nobody's going to put their hand on a hot stove when they have nothing to gain. Even when people self-harm, harming themselves is providing some pro for them. To cope with emotional pain or frustration, to regain control over something.

The biggest pro of suicide is the end of suffering. It's a 100% guaranteed way to make any kind of pain stop. You can certainly argue that the cost of ending the suffering isn't worth it. But it's still a pro for people in the moment while they're suffering.

The only situation in which I could ever see myself considering suicide as an option, is if I was dealing with excruciating physical pain or mental illness that didn't seem to have any other way of being relieved or a chance of ending in the future.

I don't think anyone should ever commit suicide before exhausting all possible options. Even then I wouldn't recommend it. But to say that there's zero pros to suicide is disingenuous, it's like saying that you can't put yourself in a situation where you'd suffer so much that you'd actively want to die instead of continue.

[The Mystical Man]

44 minutes ago, Yarco said:

The biggest pro of suicide is the end of suffering.

I'd say it's temporary relief from suffering. Eventually, you'll have to deal with what you've tried to get rid of, for suicide does not lead to the desired resolution; in fact, it causes even more suffering which will need to be resolved. Everything is seeking resolution.

Quote

Can you think of any other activity that humans participate in, with zero pros?

People do unwise things, thinking that their actions will bring about positive results, only to realize that there is no upside, only downside. I'd say committing suicide is one of those actions.

Edited October 4, 2022 by The Mystical Man

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

34 minutes ago, Yarco said:

The biggest pro of suicide is the end of suffering. It's a 100% guaranteed way to make any kind of pain stop.

How do you know? Have you tried it?

[at_anchor]

Yeah, I think the onky thing preventing me from it right now is my own cowardice. Still, life is much more painful, to me, not you. I'm not fit enough for life. People made ne weak and hurt/are making me that still. So I wish to get free from Earth in a day or two.

Also, my moral compass and my compassion are at work. I wish they gave me a break. They are a luxury sometimes. Finding the Truth and getting justice is.

Edited October 4, 2022 by at_anchor

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

5 minutes ago, at_anchor said:

Yeah, I think the onky thing preventing me from it right now is my own cowardice. Still, life is much more painful, to me, not you. I'm not fit enough for life. People made ne weak and hurt/are making me that still. So I wish to get free from Earth in a day or two.

I know all too well where you are coming from when you say this. Our experiences on this planet may have been different, but I've had the exact same sentiment coming up over and over again during my lifetime. And since I now so well what you are talking about, I can guarantee you that what you call your cowardice is in fact your love for life that is always there, burning on and on like an indistinguishable flame, even if it is (or rather seems to be) buried under a vast mountain of suffering.

[Devin]

Being in the position you're in you can have a greater life than 99.99% of other people. The only thing that holds us back is an unwillingness to let go, you're willing to let go, use this willingness to change your life, it will be more amazing than you can imagine, this pain and suffering imposed upon you right now is a gift to get you to leave the life you're living and live the life you want. What do you have to lose in trying, and what do you have to gain? Nothing to lose everything to gain, you now have no chains, go live the life you want.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Devin

[Yarco]

3 hours ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

How do you know? Have you tried it?

I'm 100% sure it ends the suffering for this particular body / mind / ego. Couldn't tell you if it impacts future/past lives, your overall karma, or versions of yourself in alternate universes, if any of those things exist.

You should probably Pascal's Wager it and assume that suicide will have bad intended effects on an afterlife or future lives though.

Quantum immortality is probably one of the biggest dissuading factors for me. If the many-worlds interpretation of quantum theory is correct, then there will always be at least one timeline where you fail every suicide attempt you make, probably causing yourself even more pain and hardship in the process with each failed attempt.

[at_anchor]

@Bazooka Jesus Thanks, of course I love life. But not everything in life is desirable. Some things are better not going through.

@Devin I can live a life better than 99.99% of people? No. I can't leave and go live the kind of life I want. Currently I might have an incling of a desire to get a job in France or Germany that contributes to mankind in a positive way, but that is a bit im... And also I don't know what else I want, everything else is even more im...

Good night guys, thank you for talking with me through this difficult time. I don't want to be spoiled and ungrateful. I hope in the morning things will be better, if I get enough sleep.

[Devin]

5 hours ago, at_anchor said:

 

@Devin I can live a life better than 99.99% of people? No. I can't leave and go live the kind of life I want. Currently I might have an incling of a desire to get a job in France or Germany that contributes to mankind in a positive way, but that is a bit im... And also I don't know what else I want, everything else is even more im...

Good night guys, thank you for talking with me through this difficult time. I don't want to be spoiled and ungrateful. I hope in the morning things will be better, if I get enough sleep.

You absolutely can. That life that you're on sucks right? That means what you're pursuing sucks. You're willing to give that up, look for a life you want, start with the bottom of maslows hierarchy of needs. I swear to you if you're willing to give up what you're chasing now, this miserable life, and look for one you want, you have the key.

[at_anchor]

19 hours ago, Devin said:

You absolutely can.

Can you absolutely know that?

19 hours ago, Devin said:

That life that you're on sucks right?

The life that I am in sucks, yes. It has cost me my health, my dignity, my freedom, everything. I almost never had these things, at least not in a sufficient enough amount to burn through that "karma".

19 hours ago, Devin said:

You're willing to give that up, look for a life you want, start with the bottom of maslows hierarchy of needs.

I cannot give this up. This is all I have.

19 hours ago, Devin said:

I swear to you if you're willing to give up what you're chasing now, this miserable life, and look for one you want, you have the key.

I don't understand. Over a half of my life has already passed by in nothing but loss with occassional fits of hope. There is no life that I want, cause it is too late for that. What life do I want? I want another life, a better life, that went better from the start. 

Yeah, now I am chasing to satisfy the bottom needs of food, sleep, exercise, safety, health, employment, sex. Bu I can't get this stuff.

[Devin]

43 minutes ago, at_anchor said:

Can you absolutely know that?

yes

43 minutes ago, at_anchor said:

The life that I am in sucks, yes. It has cost me my health, my dignity, my freedom, everything. I almost never had these things, at least not in a sufficient enough amount to burn through that "karma".

I cannot give this up. This is all I have.

I don't understand. Over a half of my life has already passed by in nothing but loss with occassional fits of hope. There is no life that I want, cause it is too late for that. What life do I want? I want another life, a better life, that went better from the start. 

Yeah, now I am chasing to satisfy the bottom needs of food, sleep, exercise, safety, health, employment, sex. Bu I can't get this stuff.

Is there anything in your life right now that you can easily do, or get, that you enjoy? Some type of food, watching the sky, cold drink, basking in the sun, watching the birds and butterflies outside or at the park, ....?

You don't have to give anything physical up, or a job or anything, that's not the problem, that's not "life"

Edited October 5, 2022 by Devin

[at_anchor]

9 hours ago, Devin said:

yes

No you cannot.

9 hours ago, Devin said:

Is there anything in your life right now that you can easily do, or get, that you enjoy? Some type of food, watching the sky, cold drink, basking in the sun, watching the birds and butterflies outside or at the park, ....?

I don't care about junk food, sky, drink, sun, birds or butterflies. Although I just ate an orange and it was pleasant. 

I cannot do what I enjoy. I can learn French, probably, but why? I'm learning it to get laid and also get a somewhat decent paying job in the second place, but this strategy is gonna fail, especially because I don't know what to do there to make a paycheck. End of story. French is easy as fuck. It has a couple of different ways you can write a couple of different vowels and that's it. Yeah, Spanish and Italian might be even easier, but again, I don't know how to make a living.

Edit: Actually yeah, it would be so nice to go into a park, run or walk, and see some birds and butterflies. But the problem with that is that I don't want to experience the next thing people have in store for me. And besides, I don't have the right shoes, I ruined em on the job.

Edited October 6, 2022 by at_anchor

[Devin]

1 hour ago, at_anchor said:

Edit: Actually yeah, it would be so nice to go into a park, run or walk, and see some birds and butterflies. But the problem with that is that I don't want to experience the next thing people have in store for me. And besides, I don't have the right shoes, I ruined em on the job.

What's that?

 

1 hour ago, at_anchor said:

No you cannot.

I don't care about junk food, sky, drink, sun, birds or butterflies. Although I just ate an orange and it was pleasant. 

I cannot do what I enjoy. I can learn French, probably, but why? I'm learning it to get laid and also get a somewhat decent paying job in the second place, but this strategy is gonna fail, especially because I don't know what to do there to make a paycheck. End of story. French is easy as fuck. It has a couple of different ways you can write a couple of different vowels and that's it. Yeah, Spanish and Italian might be even easier, but again, I don't know how to make a living.

Yes I can. And you enjoyed the orange

Edited October 6, 2022 by Devin

[at_anchor]

@Devin You're missing the point. 

What's that? I don't know, maybe they are basically doing terrible things in the world like people that did terrible things to me in the past and left me wounded. But they dont want me exposing them so they twist and turn just in case I try so no one  believes me. That's that.

They use their privileges to separate me from everything good in this world, including my life.

Edited October 6, 2022 by at_anchor

[Devin]

14 minutes ago, at_anchor said:

@Devin You're missing the point. 

What's that? I don't know, maybe they are basically doing terrible things in the world like people that did terrible things to me in the past and left me wounded. But they dont want me exposing them so they twist and turn just in case I try so no one  believes me. That's that.

They use their privileges to separate me from everything good in this world, including my life.

Your employer? Parents?

[Devin]

A few other easy things to attain that are usually easy to see joy in is yoga, breathing, and drinking a glass of water, but you can think for yourself as well, what other things easy for you to get that's enjoyable, music, ....

[at_anchor]

1 hour ago, Devin said:

what other things easy for you to get that's enjoyable, music, ....

Again, you are missing a crucial point without which I can't do or have or find anything I enjoy. 

1 hour ago, Devin said:

Your employer? Parents?

Does it really matter so much? Yes, family as well. You know how they call me? As I am writing this my Viber has like 6x calls from a family member that is pretending to call. Then will say how I did not want to answer, but my phone did not even ring for a second. It's quite disgusting actually.

Edited October 6, 2022 by at_anchor

[Devin]

2 hours ago, at_anchor said:

Again, you are missing a crucial point without which I can't do or have or find anything I enjoy. 

Does it really matter so much? Yes, family as well. You know how they call me? As I am writing this my Viber has like 6x calls from a family member that is pretending to call. Then will say how I did not want to answer, but my phone did not even ring for a second. It's quite disgusting actually.

You said the orange was pleasurable, sounds like you found joy. There's a trick to joy that hopefully not surprising to you, you've been lied to or misled about.

So is poverty one of the big problems?

[at_anchor]

6 hours ago, Devin said:

You said the orange was pleasurable, sounds like you found joy. There's a trick to joy that hopefully not surprising to you, you've been lied to or misled about.

You are right about that. I have a couple of things I would enjoy doing, like speaking and things like that.

6 hours ago, Devin said:

So is poverty one of the big problems?

Yes, it is one of the big problems or more precisely a result of other ones. In this world money buys everything, so it can buy my freedom to cut out toxic people, get safety, heal, live a good life and so on. But the price for getting back my dignity where I am from is enormous.  It cannot change the past and get my time back, unfortunately. 

So France actually has a higher unemployment rate and I have a limiting belief that getting a job there is tough. One of the biggest reasons I want to learn French is to get international respect as well as a bit of local. France has international respect, but so does Italy, Spain, and Brazil. But there is somethig special about people who can speak French. That might be a bad reason to learn it. It is actually the literature that I am interested the most about France.

Edited October 6, 2022 by at_anchor

[Devin]

@at_anchor Well you seem to be more receptive now, even if you don't take it now I'll give it to you in hopes you try it or realize it later.

Joy, what you felt eating the orange, and what you feel from those simple things that are available to you, is all that really matters, it's what you're ultimately seeking. The lie you've been told or how you've been misled about joy, or the trick about joy is that it is always with you, you actually don't even need the orange but you're so clouded by the lies or whatever that it's hard for you to see it. To go unnecessarily super deep; you are joy.

Joy is not something you can attain or lose, it's always there.

Now, how to get the life you want. Have you noticed that you're more productive or you accomplish more things when you're happier? So the trick is how I think Jesus said it "FIRST seek the kingdom of heaven, then ..." Something like that, you need to do the joy thing first.

 

Then, and what you want to experience can/will change, don't resist your intuition/heart of wanting to experience something different than you were previously wanting, but then just live in joy and proceed toward what you want to experience. It's important to remember, what you want will change though, don't fight that.

There's even more great things than this that you'll love but this is a start.