Did you know reality can continue to appear in absence of you?

[Shawn Philips]

15 hours ago, Nilsi said:

You are the "seen beach," don't you get it?

So human experience is a swapped POV where the universe looks itself thru human eyes? What then after death? You become everything without possibility to experience itself?

[Nilsi]

3 minutes ago, Shawn Philips said:

So human experience is a swapped POV where the universe looks itself thru human eyes? 

Pretty much.

4 minutes ago, Shawn Philips said:

What then after death? You become everything without possibility to experience itself?

I'm not "dead," so how would I know?

[axiom]

6 hours ago, Shawn Philips said:

So human experience is a swapped POV where the universe looks itself thru human eyes? What then after death? You become everything without possibility to experience itself?

Nothing changes after death. You are very literally already dead.

To the extent the ownership-taking / seeking energy has not dissolved, "you" will keep attaching yourself to other apparent objects. How'd you like to live 100 years as a window? A week as a piece of toast? Or another stint as a human? Go for it. This is "reincarnation". Take salvia for a preview.

Enlightenment is the recognition that there is no you and there never was, and gets "you" off the wheel of seeking and attachment forever.

Edited October 1, 2022 by axiom

[isabel]

10 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

Yes exactly. Not seeing/seen anymore at all. Just appearance.

Like the quick image of a sunset I chopped together. Only appearance remains shining pristine. To nobody and nothing.

Importantly, there is no point of view there anymore. The image is, impossibly, no longer in front of you or behind you or anywhere at all. It's by itself. Without any you anywhere at all. Nowhere in relation to it. Not even merged with it, or swirling around "at one" with it like DMT breakthrough trips, it's not there anymore. Not somewhere in relation to it, not merged with it: gone... NOT only the thoughts or ideas of self gone leaving behind some kind of hidden entity, not a true Self, not a self made of nothingness, just 100% non-existent.

The "true Self" or "I" is another appearance like a sunset or like anything else.

I've not experienced it just read about it, so maybe someone else can correct and refine this

but that's what happens, there is the seer, the seen, and seeing but that's an illusion

there is no seer and no seen object - you can tell because each one cannot exist without the other

so whenever you have two things that cannot be separated, you have one thing

but it isn't a thing, it's only awareness/seeing

there is nothing to you or any object that is more than your awareness of it

when the distinction between the seer and the seen collapses (becomes one) there is nothing left but seeing (awareness being aware of itself)

or just appearance - you are gone like you're saying as far as anyone can describe...

byron katie said she tried to describe it as zero but even saying zero was too much

there is no point of view because you're not located 

you need to view the world through the mind in order to be somewhere

infinity is space/location as seen through the mind

and eternity is time as seen through the mind, so you can't have a location or time without the mind

pretty cool, how did you bring that about?

[Breakingthewall]

22 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

There wasn't any me to even be everything I mean. I didn't exist anymore. I wasn't separate from everything and I wasn't everything either. I wasn't there at all.

I have experienced that several times. it is reality when it's  completely empty of content. it is the door to enlightenment (yes, I know you will tell me that there are no doors). It is that absolutely empty reality, there is no you, there is only emptiness. absolute, whole. absence of anything (horrible btw). but there is a small detail. you are experiencing it. how would you remember it if not? you, the absolute void, are experiencing yourself and after you remember it. If you are able to hold that void long enough, or return to it immediately after experiencing it, magic will happen: the void will reveal itself as unfathomable, infinite. the moment the void realizes its endless depth, the source is revealed. bomb blast. all, the glory, god. you, really, since there is only you

Edited October 1, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Kshantivadin]

20 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

There isn't a tube in the middle......

And each time you peel off a layer,

You find another layer,

Until all the layers are peeled off,

And then what do you have but nothing...
Nothing...

[Kshantivadin]

2 hours ago, axiom said:

You are very literally already dead.

 o o O (  )

[RMQualtrough]

2 hours ago, isabel said:

byron katie said she tried to describe it as zero but even saying zero was too much

there is no point of view because you're not located 

Yes I don't like the other descriptors. It actually ends the insight to even think words such as awareness/consciousness in particular. It ends it instantaneously and back come certain false ideas such as ideas of screens of awarenesses and God.

If you even say for example that red is aware of itself, you're ascribing something other than the very appearance of redness to redness. E.g: you are then thinking of the quality of redness but then believing there is something else to it, namely "awareness", as opposed to it just being redness alone. Point blank nothing else to it but the very quality itself. Nothing "infused" into it or hiding behind it or seeing it from the foreground. None of that.

Brought about because I was messing around trying to stop vision from seeming to be in front of me or part of me etc. Basically, trying to do the same with vision as what happens with sound on drugs like DMT, so that the sight is not in ANY kind of relation to me. And then I stopped existing at all. For a few minutes or something... I don't readily buy into bullshit, I don't just eat a space cake and say "omg it's so radical I realized I am absolute love thanks Leo! Please fellate me." 

Rupert Spira says different, and says that you can't dream of a beach without seeming to be somewhere in relation to the beach. Like for example, to see it he thinks you need a perspective, where you have a certain field of view of some limited aspect of it. This is a logical idea. But not what happened. As the perspective/point of view wasn't there, nor in the image or anywhere at all. Not even nowhere. It just wasn't.

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

I have experienced that several times. ... but there is a small detail. you are experiencing it. how would you remember it if not?

Then you have not in fact been confronted with the same thing, because you are incredulous at the idea that there WAS NOT any me experiencing anything (or any God or Brahman or consciousness experiencing it either)... There wasn't.

There wasn't a void me or nothing me or everything me. There was no me at all. And reality stayed in place. I wasn't a screen or a void or nothing or God or everything. I wasn't there. At all. Not even as nothing...... Not even nothing......

Do you see this is logically impossible? It shouldn't be able to happen even to a delusional schizo. It ought to be actually impossible. So I think it is probably right, since it did happen.

If you were to discuss your trips I can tell you EXACTLY what happened.

In one trip I "became nothing" and I think that is because while 4 of my 5 senses lost spatial relation, vision did not. So the vision which stands alone still came with a sense of depth and position. E.g. the sensation the images of clowns and whatever were happening in front of me. And I noticed then a void at the "here" location, which is left in the place of imagined space when appearances are projected into a "there" space. I think that is why that happened. It's another delusion. Falsehood.

[RMQualtrough]

Are y'all "open to the possibility" of the "radical" "Absolute Truth (trademark)" that reality is literally just existing? That it is just shining, pristine, existing... That the reality you think "you" are seeing, exactly as it is, exists there (yes exactly as you see it) without the you entity even existing.

That it just. fucking. EXISTS. Without a perspective or point of view or God or bullshit fables.

You are already dead. This is the same as actual physical death. Right now the world as you see it, this is identical to physical death. There is no difference right now if you are alive or dead. Nothing would be any different whatsoever. This is absolutely the same. The world continues to appear because it never needed you anyway, the entire you is appearance senses thought and various other things which coil to form the ego.

If there is notion of a God entity or you being "one" with everything or anything like that, it is not ego death. That is fake "ego death" which is, btw, the same process by which out of body experiences happen on drugs: The sense of you initially feels to shrink as you lose sense of your body, but once the final body part sense is gone, "your awareness" feels like it is infinite and everywhere because there is not any place for it to anchor its sense of boundary to (when sober the boundary probz seems to be the edge of your skin)... This is not ego death, the ego is still present but unattached to anything... That is still an existent ego.

Edited October 1, 2022 by RMQualtrough

[Breakingthewall]

9 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

Then you have not in fact been confronted with the same thing, because you are incredulous at the idea that there WAS NOT any me experiencing anything (or any God or Brahman or consciousness experiencing it either)... There wasn't.

On 30/9/2022 at 11:30 PM, RMQualtrough said:

 

And how is possible that you remember the experience?

[axiom]

14 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

And how is possible that you remember the experience?

“My” “experience” 24/7 is as @RMQualtrough describes.

There is no one. “Thoughts” and “writing” still appear. Really they are just appearance though, and taxonomically indistinct from anything else.

”Remember” is a misnomer. There is no remembering. There is only appearance.

Really all words are just “blah blah”. Including this.

[RMQualtrough]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

And how is possible that you remember the experience?

The same way anything is remembered. That is the least unusual element.

But see you and other dude are like, in disbelief, can't comprehend it because you can't believe that "true me!!!!" Is still ego and not necessary in the equation.

"God consciousness" is pure ego. "True Self!" is ego. It's a huge alteration in ego (and I can walk through EXACTLY how this effect occurs when you take drugs), not total ego death.

[Breakingthewall]

13 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

The same way anything is remembered. That is the least unusual element.

Anything is remembered when you are there. 

 

14 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

God consciousness" is pure ego. "True Self!" is ego.

It's not true self. is that you are the absolute void, the nothingness. but the nothingness is, there you remember it. and nothingness is limitless, it is infinity. since it has no limits, you, that is, nothingness, encompass infinity. this is the explosion and what you call the consciousness of god. infinity is everything, and you are it just as you are nothing. think about one thing: maybe you are missing something to see. Why not be open to that possibility? It is also quite obvious that you exist. Just go outside for a walk. to be nothing it seems something right? where is the trick?

[axiom]

12 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Anything is remembered when you are there. 

There is noone. There is never anyone.

You are not reading this.

A computer uses function calls to remember subroutines. There is no 'I' there.

21 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's not true self. is that you are the absolute void, the nothingness. but the nothingness is, there you remember it. and nothingness is limitless, it is infinity. since it has no limits, you, that is, nothingness, encompass infinity. this is the explosion and what you call the consciousness of god. infinity is everything, and you are it just as you are nothing. think about one thing: maybe you are missing something to see. Why not be open to that possibility? It is also quite obvious that you exist. Just go outside for a walk. to be nothing it seems something right? where is the trick?

The appearance is not personal. That's the whole illusion from beginning to end.

It can take the form of thinking you're making a cup of coffee, to thinking you are everything / God / infinity.

Every step of the way, the 'I' is fiercely protecting itself using whatever means it can, including self-deception.

[Adamq8]

What if, God is actually Other, and not Self? 

Appearence can appear without a self because you are not the generator of appearences either, existence IS.

Creation is continous, from moment to moment.

But to actually notice and be hyper concious of God's presence is totally possible, God is Existence as such, and it is deeply personal as well.

You need to sustain your existence, you need to eat, shit, etc, but existence as such, does not need anything, since it is the generator of contingent beings.

God is not some man in the clouds, God is the foundation for the idea to even appear in the first place.

Non existence is not real for God, but for a contingent being like us, who stands between nothingness and infinite Being, it is possible.

 

 

 

 

 

[RMQualtrough]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Anything is remembered when you are there. 

 

It's not true self. is that you are the absolute void, the nothingness. but the nothingness is, there you remember it. and nothingness is limitless, it is infinity. since it has no limits, you, that is, nothingness, encompass infinity. this is the explosion and what you call the consciousness of god. infinity is everything, and you are it just as you are nothing. think about one thing: maybe you are missing something to see. Why not be open to that possibility? It is also quite obvious that you exist. Just go outside for a walk. to be nothing it seems something right? where is the trick?

No, not nothingness. Not infinity. Not a void. I wasn't there. At all. Not as anything OR as nothing. I didn't exist anymore.

You are genuinely afraid of not existing, as you said it is horrifying. "Be open to the possibility" you're actively trying to hold onto a delusion due to fear...

You are logic-ing the idea that I had to have been present, because the alternative is impossible. It is logically impossible appearance was there without me. But it was.

I can explain your drug trip revelations if you want. I'm super familiar with DMT trips and the effects.

[Shawn Philips]

17 hours ago, axiom said:

Nothing changes after death. You are very literally already dead.

To the extent the ownership-taking / seeking energy has not dissolved, "you" will keep attaching yourself to other apparent objects. How'd you like to live 100 years as a window? A week as a piece of toast? Or another stint as a human? Go for it. This is "reincarnation". Take salvia for a preview.

Enlightenment is the recognition that there is no you and there never was, and gets "you" off the wheel of seeking and attachment forever.

But this contradicts the quantum mechanics double slit experiment that lead us to the conclusion: for the manifestation of "waves of probabilities" into a defined reality there has to be a conscious expectator observing. What if every conscious being in the universe dies and there's no POV for the universe to reflect itself and expertiment itself?

[Dodo]

On 30/09/2022 at 4:01 PM, RMQualtrough said:

Did you know that?

Did you know that the I/You entity can be walking down a beach, and just stop existing? You just cease to exist at all.

But the beach doesn't change. It continues to appear just exactly and precisely the same. With absolutely no difference between when you exist and when you don't. When you stop existing, the beach doesn't.

And then after about say 20 seconds, you exist again. And throughout the entirety the beach continued to appear. It appeared before you went away. KEPT appearing WHILE you were away. And continued still to appear when you started existing again.

Do you know what I mean by that?

I think you're too deep in the rabbit hole. How did you cease to exist if you were aware of anything at all or absence of anything (in this case the absence of you) ?

You don't bullsh`t a bullsh`tter with nondual paradoxes. 

 

[Hojo]

@Shawn Philips You do experience it but you dont know you are experiencing it while you are it because there's no one to respond to am I experiencing this. Like you in a dream you cannot say I am in a dream while in a dream and if you remained in the dream you would never know you were dreaming. So you don't even know its happened until you have a body to say my consciousness was doing something else.

Edited October 2, 2022 by Hojo

[Dodo]

1 minute ago, Hojo said:

@Shawn Philips You do experience it but you dont know you are experiencing it while you are it because there's no one to respond to am I experiencing this. Like you in a dream you cannot say I am in a dream while in a dream. So you don't even know its happened until you have a body to say my consciousness was doing something else.

False analogy, in dream if conscious enough you can indeed say "I am in a dream" and that's what lucidity is. 

I would think Awakening means you are Lucid dreaming, and not just dreaming. 

Aware-ing of awareness is automatic, I have no idea what thing you must have experienced to say you "dont know" while you're experiencing it... Knowing and awareness are synonymous in this case.  

You are either aware and there or unconscious/unaware and not there - you cant have both. What you are pointing at is you probably temporarily shrinked your awareness, that's the opposite of the goal of Spiritual work.