Did you know reality can continue to appear in absence of you?

[Hojo]

you can be conscious and unaware im pretty sure. What does a baby feel. @Dodo

Edited October 2, 2022 by Hojo

[RMQualtrough]

38 minutes ago, Dodo said:

I think you're too deep in the rabbit hole. How did you cease to exist if you were aware of anything at all or absence of anything (in this case the absence of you) ?

You don't bullsh`t a bullsh`tter with nondual paradoxes. 

 

It happened as I said.

It's not a paradox unless you speak about it (because I have to say this happened to me etc to tell you about it). Also unless you hold the idea that for something to be seen there has to be a see-r of that thing, which is a conditioned idea taught into us.

Have you not ever considered that, uhm... Okay see this:

That green cushion yeah? Have you not ever considered that the appearance of that green pillow is literally the very thing that it is? That the existent thing there is the qualia itself... Everything people are discussing, true selves and God and such, is an idea that there is something to it other than the very thing itself.

Examples: "There is a screen of awareness in which a green pillow appears", or "I am a green pillow (or "at one with" the green pillow)"... It's an additive interpretation that there are multiple facets to the appearance of a green pillow. Even if you mentally merge them or feel merged/one with them, it's still an egoic additive of something other than the very thing itself.

What if there isn't awareness and a pillow, or a pillow in awareness, or a pillow made of me, or me at one with a pillow, or a pillow being me. What if there is JUST THE FUCKING PILLOW. The so-called "subjective" experiential quality of it being the very single sole thing it is.

It happened like that. Kinda. Because of ego function, the pillow seems to look to be in front of me like how you sit on the sofa watching TV the TV is in front of you. See what happens when you actually remove location and spatial relation. See if you can make that sight into a surround sound type effect so it's everywhere but nowhere you can pinpoint. So it looks equally as behind you as it does in front of you, but when you try to see it in those places it is also never located there either (so just like surround sound).

Edited October 2, 2022 by RMQualtrough

[Hojo]

@RMQualtrough ok then what are you. If there is no I

Edited October 2, 2022 by Hojo

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, axiom said:

There is noone. There is never anyone.

You are not reading this.

A computer uses function calls to remember subroutines. There is no 'I' there.

The appearance is not personal. That's the whole illusion from beginning to end.

It can take the form of thinking you're making a cup of coffee, to thinking you are everything / God / infinity.

Every step of the way, the 'I' is fiercely protecting itself using whatever means it can, including self-deception.

Let's see, if i dissapear and only the void remains, but the void is aware of itself, I'm the void. I'm always there since an experience is happening. If you say there is not experience happening, what is this? An illusion? It's still an experience. Everything is, except the non existence. But the existence is, so i am. How to denying that?

1 hour ago, RMQualtrough said:

I can explain your drug trip revelations if you want

Explain. The revelation is the nothingness that realizes that is limitless, in this moment, the absolute is revealed

Edited October 2, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[RMQualtrough]

@Hojo 

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

Let's see, if i dissapear and only the void remains, but the void is aware of itself, I'm the void. I'm always there since an experience is happening. If you say there is not experience happening, what is this? An illusion? It's still an experience. Everything is, except the non existence. But the existence is, so i am. How to denying that?

Explain. The revelation is the nothingness that realizes that is limitless, in this moment, the absolute is revealed

Okay. The experience itself is the exact thing that exists. The word experience unfortunately implies that there is a subject ("subject"ive experience = subject + object). So it's misleading to say that.

What we call an "experience", the very subjective quality itself, is the literal exact thing that is. There's nothing to it BUT that. There isn't anything mixed into it, merged with it, behind it, in front of it, seeing it. There is ONLY the exact thing itself. You aren't there seeing it as a void or as nothingness, you aren't there as the pillow. You aren't at one with the pillow or merged with the pillow. The apparently seen quality of the pillow is the exact and only thing there...

It's like if you had a paint can filled with qualia, and that is the very thing put down onto canvas. There isn't a canvas but it might be a useful metaphor... Or imagine Lego blocks made of qualia. So a paint can filled with the qualia itself like the redness of red, or the guitarness sound of a guitar. And your brush places that down on the canvas. Or imagine Lego blocks made of qualia just the same, and those are the very things which construct reality. Perhaps useful metaphors.

Or literally right now do this because it triggered it in me initially a few weeks ago or w.e.: take a cushion, put it in front of you, and try to recreate a surround sound effect but with the vision of the cushion. Make it so the cushion seems equally as behind you as it is in front of you. Don't just BS yourself with thoughts either. The thing has to literally lose spatial relation so it isn't any more in front than it is behind... See if that does anything.

[Adamq8]

Why is reality ordered? Why is it behaving in a certain consistent manner , that it is intelligble?

How come you can make sense of the symbols appearing here and actually grasp the question?

If it is just appearing out of nowhere , why do it keep appearing as a consistent flow so to speak?

 

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, RMQualtrough said:

It happened as I said.

It's not a paradox unless you speak about it (because I have to say this happened to me etc to tell you about it). Also unless you hold the idea that for something to be seen there has to be a see-r of that thing, which is a conditioned idea taught into us.

Have you not ever considered that, uhm... Okay see this:

That green cushion yeah? Have you not ever considered that the appearance of that green pillow is literally the very thing that it is? That the existent thing there is the qualia itself... Everything people are discussing, true selves and God and such, is an idea that there is something to it other than the very thing itself.

Examples: "There is a screen of awareness in which a green pillow appears", or "I am a green pillow (or "at one with" the green pillow)"... It's an additive interpretation that there are multiple facets to the appearance of a green pillow. Even if you mentally merge them or feel merged/one with them, it's still an egoic additive of something other than the very thing itself.

What if there isn't awareness and a pillow, or a pillow in awareness, or a pillow made of me, or me at one with a pillow, or a pillow being me. What if there is JUST THE FUCKING PILLOW. The so-called "subjective" experiential quality of it being the very single sole thing it is.

It happened like that. Kinda. Because of ego function, the pillow seems to look to be in front of me like how you sit on the sofa watching TV the TV is in front of you. See what happens when you actually remove location and spatial relation. See if you can make that sight into a surround sound type effect so it's everywhere but nowhere you can pinpoint. So it looks equally as behind you as it does in front of you, but when you try to see it in those places it is also never located there either (so just like surround sound).

For the part of your comment above the pillow. 

Obviously,  whatever happened, appeared in your awareness or you wouldnt know about it or be able to speak of it. So there is your evidence that you were there! Maybe not the you you take yourself to be, but you were definitely there, if we are to speak factually.

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, Hojo said:

you can be conscious and unaware im pretty sure. What does a baby feel. @Dodo

If you are conscious, you are aware. Its the same thing. Not talking about the degree to which you are aware. For some awareness may be a circle shrinked to the point of a dot, but its there to be expanded, for others its a bigger and bigger circle. 

Babies are conscious and aware, they are just not developed mentally to make sense of anything. 

As Ekhart says, babies and animals are below the level of thinking, but that doesnt mean they are not aware. In fact the lack of thinking can be an argument they are more aware than the average adult. 

[RMQualtrough]

53 minutes ago, Dodo said:

For the part of your comment above the pillow. 

Obviously,  whatever happened, appeared in your awareness or you wouldnt know about it or be able to speak of it. So there is your evidence that you were there! Maybe not the you you take yourself to be, but you were definitely there, if we are to speak factually.

You think it appeared in my awareness, and you think I was there. But it didn't and I wasn't... That is why it's logically impossible and why it ought not to have been possible for it to even happen. Not even if I was delusional or schizophrenic or high on drugs, because it is a logical impossibility for it to even appear to happen.

Can you not see that the sight of the pillow is the literal thing that it is? Not a void or a nothing or a God or Brahman or anything here seeing it. All that is just ideas ADDED on to the fact which is the appearing of the pillow. The appearing of the pillow is the exact thing that exists... The pillow doesn't need to be seen to appear because the seen pillow is literally what it is. In the way light doesn't need to be lit up since light IS the very thing that it is. The qualia of the seen pillow is the exact thing it is... It's a conditioned belief we have been taught that these qualitative elements have to be seen, heard, touched, tasted, as opposed to the seeing, hearing, touching, and tasting of them (the quality itself) being what exists. You see the difference right?

Dip a paintbrush into a can of paint, but the paint in the can is qualia. So you are painting with the actual redness of red and loudness of music. And paint the canvas with that... Or take Lego blocks made of the same qualia, and make a building with them. I think those are decent metaphors, even though there isn't any brush or canvas or can of paint, I think envisioning painting qualia onto a canvas is a good metaphor.

Edited October 2, 2022 by RMQualtrough

[RMQualtrough]

Everyone speaks about spacelessness already so there is the easiest test ever:

Just hold up any object. If it can't stop seeming to be in front of you, then you obviously are still under the illusion of space and time.

Until you are able to have the object seem equally behind you as it is in front, then you are too far in the illusion of space and time...

[Michal__]

Sounds like a cessation. But I cant really confirm that, so ask someone like Daniel Ingram and then he could help you reach this whenever you want.

[Ramu]

@Razard86 your EGO isn't the beach.  The ego is the thing that thinks it's human.

[Ramu]

@RMQualtrough Actually since you ARE reality....the beach existing depends on you.  When you end this existence as the big you, the beach goes with you because it is you.  The beach doesn't exist independently of you in some "physical universe".  Don't worry though, many people don't quite grasp what Leo is saying.

[Ramu]

It seems if you "got," what Leo was saying these questions would never arise.

[Ramu]

@RMQualtrough @RMQualtrough Actually since you ARE reality....the beach existing depends on you.  When you end this existence as the big you, the beach goes with you because it is you.  The beach doesn't exist independently of you in some "physical universe".  Don't worry though, many people don't quite grasp what Leo is saying.  When you leave your house in the morning the only place it exists is as a concept.  Watch Leo's video on naive realism to better grasp this.  You are close but you have it backwards.

[BipolarGrowth]

The OP is pure imagination, grounded in nothing. All there is is appearance while appearance is appearing to be that way. There is no beach outside of experience, outside of appearance. 

[axiom]

1 hour ago, Ramu said:

It seems if you "got," what Leo was saying these questions would never arise.

I didn’t get the impression that @RMQualtrough is basing any of this on anything Leo has said.

[Ramu]

So then why is this person saying reality exists without God?

[Ramu]

YOU (God) exists.  You are God in Form.  You are the creator creating this realm of a sandy beach as a human....dreaming it all in this reality which is YOU.  WHEN the character you're playing dies...so does the "beach" which you created.  Honestly are Leo's videos that hard to understand?  Sometimes I instantly get what he says right off the bat because I've shared an intuitive insight.  To be honest...I have a huge advantage in a way over most of the people on this website because I completely understand everything he says.  The reason?  I've been contemplating for over 40years.  I resonate with it and I'm open minded.  But my only desire is to acquire more psychedelics....so far the research chem road in the US has been spotty.....the US Government is full of upright assholes who couldn't for their fucking lives see the potential for psychedelics because their bought buy the fucking pharmaceutical lobby.

[Ramu]

Get rid of grandma and grandpa senator and congressman and bring in some fresh meat that understands PROGRESS and NOT cronyism.