Did you know reality can continue to appear in absence of you?

[Nilsi]

3 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

BULLSHIT, dude.

BULLSHIT. Unless someone is able to explain why and how the world continued to appear yet I stopped existing.

How did that happen?

It's called ego-death. Obviously you were still there, else you couldn't experience the beach. You're not your ego, get over it

[RMQualtrough]

Just now, Nilsi said:

It's called ego-death. Obviously you were still there, else you couldn't experience the beach. You're not your ego, get over it

It wasn't like that, srs.

It was CLOSER to saying in the example that the beach was seeing itself. Closer to that. But not even that, because the seen beach was literally the thing that it was. Rather than a beach which is seen (even by itself) and results in the sight of a beach. There was absolutely no beach or seeing, just the 'seen beach' itself. That alone like how light IS lit.

I've read similar on some 5-MeO retreat reports on Erowid. When people say they stopped existing, or things like that.

I don't know...

Ego death to me seems like usual DMT breakthrough etc. The difference in that being that on DMT breakthroughs there is still an idea of a self. Usually for example, you become "one" with everything. Like the hippy "all is one" meme. It's more like ego replacement or ego merging.

[Hojo]

@RMQualtrough when the identity drops you realize its not you looking out at the beach its the beach looking into you. yes the beach is there but there isnt a set of eyes to look at it.

[Nilsi]

2 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

It was CLOSER to saying in the example that the beach was seeing itself. Closer to that. But not even that, because the seen beach was literally the thing that it was. Rather than a beach which is seen (even by itself) and results in the sight of a beach. There was absolutely no beach or seeing, just the 'seen beach' itself. That alone like how light IS lit.

You are the "seen beach," don't you get it?

[RMQualtrough]

1 minute ago, Nilsi said:

You are the "seen beach," don't you get it?

I don't, what you're saying is like DMT I think. DMT is like "I became one with everything" or "everything was me" etc.

I'm quite familiar with that type of trip.

There wasn't any me to even be everything I mean. I didn't exist anymore. I wasn't separate from everything and I wasn't everything either. I wasn't there at all. Reality remained. I didn't. I'm not talking about that DMT trippy stuff or trying to be obscure with words to sound smart.

It was like sights saw themselves. Moreso. Very much more like that. There was zero idea of such a thing as a me... It lasted a brief minute or two.

[Osaid]

39 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

But it is bad for us to write it that way because it makes it sound like seeing is some entity other than the beach, which is merged with the beach or part of the beach. If we write it that way when the seen beach IS the very exact thing it is, it does imply multiple things... And people reading it will think of two things being there and try to mentally merge them.

Right, but there is no other way to write, because language is inherently dualistic. The best you can do is write in paradoxes, that way you can point to something beyond finitudes and dualisms.

Perception = existence, is probably the most direct way to put it. 

Leo actually has an entire video on this exact point:

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Osaid

[Nilsi]

2 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

I don't, what you're saying is like DMT I think. DMT is like "I became one with everything" or "everything was me" etc.

I'm quite familiar with that type of trip.

There wasn't any me to even be everything I mean. I didn't exist anymore. I wasn't separate from everything and I wasn't everything either. I wasn't there at all. Reality remained. I didn't. I'm not talking about that DMT trippy stuff or trying to be obscure with words to sound smart.

It was like sights saw themselves. Moreso. Very much more like that. There was zero idea of such a thing as a me... It lasted a brief minute or two.

This has nothing to do with DMT lol. There can not be a beach without something perceiving it, that should not be so hard to grasp (though it may be hard to accept lol).

[RMQualtrough]

1 minute ago, Nilsi said:

This has nothing to do with DMT lol. There can not be a beach without something perceiving it, that should not be so hard to grasp (though it may be hard to accept lol).

There IS NOT and that's what I mean.

It is bullshit that there is unless it can be explained how the fuck I straight up stopped existing and reality still stood there shining bright. I did not exist. 

 

Even here your mind will be implanting a "you" into the sunset afterwards too because you will be imagining that the thoughts about I go away but the I entity remains there somewhere. Not that, I mean there is no I present. The sunset appears alone by itself. Self luminous. Nothing is seeing it. That sunset, the SEEN SUNSET is the literal exact thing that is.

As if you were building something from Legos, but the Legos were perception. That is what reality is made of. It is like building blocks of perceptions/qualia. There isn't anything observing it. What lights up light dude? That question is like discussing what observes the beach or w.e.

Not only do you not need to observe sights, you already aren't. See how things appear anyway? What if you discovered you weren't actually seeing them and NEVER were. That the I sense/thought/whatever was just another one of the self-luminous appearances. Do you see what I am saying? If you explain back to me what it sounds like I'm trying to say, I'll see if I am botching it as per usual.

 

[OBEler]

@Nilsi @RMQualtroughthe@RMQualtroughthe beach cannot be perceived from the ego, yet the beach is still being the beach

[Hojo]

@RMQualtrough You do exist you are just incapable of thinking it. But you are there as base consciousness you keep existing and you can think but you cant choose what you think. You just think based on feeling. So if you die in fear you will remain in fear and spiral out of control. Its a state that you just react you dont think about reacting because god dosent have to think about doing something its god what ever it does is perfect. It dosent exist in space or time so when you are in god mode you dont even know you are in god mode until you wake up inside a body. If you were to die and reborn reality would start in slow and you wouldnt know anything so you will forget you are god. But if you enter god mode and come back into the same body you can remember.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Hojo

[RMQualtrough]

@OBEler Right, something like that... What a nasty thing for the narcissist egos, to realize they aren't any more real or special or central than any other mirage...

Have you seen that new type of toilet paper? It's called Cushelle. It doesn't have a cardboard tube in the middle... The cult follower creepers often repeat the drug-addled delusion that when the ego is unravelled there's a special "super you" cardboard tube in the middle.

But it's Cushelle. There isn't a tube in the middle...... Once it has unravelled there is no secret "true Self" remaining... It was just another appearance.

Cushelle is a good invention btw. Would recommend. I like keeping a mega neat living space.

[OBEler]

@RMQualtrough @RMQualtrough nö never seen the toilet paper, sounds interesting

[isabel]

 

your saying that the distinction between the seer and the seen can collapse and leave nothing but seeing?

someone in another thread told me it's less like seeing, more like just appearance, like that?

[RMQualtrough]

20 minutes ago, isabel said:

 

your saying that the distinction between the seer and the seen can collapse and leave nothing but seeing?

someone in another thread told me it's less like seeing, more like just appearance, like that?

Yes exactly. Not seeing/seen anymore at all. Just appearance.

Like the quick image of a sunset I chopped together. Only appearance remains shining pristine. To nobody and nothing.

Importantly, there is no point of view there anymore. The image is, impossibly, no longer in front of you or behind you or anywhere at all. It's by itself. Without any you anywhere at all. Nowhere in relation to it. Not even merged with it, or swirling around "at one" with it like DMT breakthrough trips, it's not there anymore. Not somewhere in relation to it, not merged with it: gone... NOT only the thoughts or ideas of self gone leaving behind some kind of hidden entity, not a true Self, not a self made of nothingness, just 100% non-existent.

The "true Self" or "I" is another appearance like a sunset or like anything else.

Edited October 1, 2022 by RMQualtrough

[Nilsi]

9 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

There IS NOT and that's what I mean.

It is bullshit that there is unless it can be explained how the fuck I straight up stopped existing and reality still stood there shining bright. I did not exist. 

 

Even here your mind will be implanting a "you" into the sunset afterwards too because you will be imagining that the thoughts about I go away but the I entity remains there somewhere. Not that, I mean there is no I present. The sunset appears alone by itself. Self luminous. Nothing is seeing it. That sunset, the SEEN SUNSET is the literal exact thing that is.

As if you were building something from Legos, but the Legos were perception. That is what reality is made of. It is like building blocks of perceptions/qualia. There isn't anything observing it. What lights up light dude? That question is like discussing what observes the beach or w.e.

Not only do you not need to observe sights, you already aren't. See how things appear anyway? What if you discovered you weren't actually seeing them and NEVER were. That the I sense/thought/whatever was just another one of the self-luminous appearances. Do you see what I am saying? If you explain back to me what it sounds like I'm trying to say, I'll see if I am botching it as per usual.

 

This is ridiculous. There may be no sense of a separate self, but you're still there, otherwise there would be no beach. 

You can not experience anything without being there, that's the most obvious thing in the world. Also if you awaken deep enough, you will realize that you can not not be there, it's just impossible - everything is you! Hello?!

Edited October 1, 2022 by Nilsi

[RMQualtrough]

55 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

This is ridiculous. There may be no sense of a separate self, but you're still there, otherwise there would be no beach. 

You can not experience anything without being there, that's the most obvious thing in the world. Also if you awaken deep enough, you will realize that you can not not be there, it's just impossible - everything is you! Hello?!

Yeah it should be impossible so what if it happened? What would you think? How can you explain the occurrence I'm talking about?

You DEFINITELY haven't "awakened" (cringe term lol) if you believe there's an omnipresent you entity. The ego is still appearing then. You don't need to be there for reality to be there. Experienced by nobody. The "experience" being the very thing it is, self contained like how light is light. No magical entity needed to light it, since it is light.

Consider the blatant wrongness of "Self" ideas, even without it ceasing to exist for you... The amount of BS Spira etc have to invent to explain obvious occurrences like deep sleep. "You" are some magical awareness screen but don't see anything but whatever is in front of your ego? Bunk incorrect teachings. Bunk religious beliefs.

Edited October 1, 2022 by RMQualtrough
My grammar sucks balls

[Nilsi]

1 hour ago, RMQualtrough said:

Yeah it should be impossible so what if it happened? What would you think? How can you explain the occurrence I'm talking about?

You DEFINITELY haven't "awakened" (cringe term lol) if you believe there's an omnipresent you entity. The ego is still appearing then. You don't need to be there for reality to be there. Experienced by nobody. The "experience" being the very thing it is, self contained like how light is light. No magical entity needed to light it, since it is light.

Consider the blatant wrongness of "Self" ideas, even without it ceasing to exist for you... The amount of BS Spira etc have to invent to explain obvious occurrences like deep sleep. "You" are some magical awareness screen but don't see anything but whatever is in front of your ego? Bunk incorrect teachings. Bunk religious beliefs.

Whatever. If those stories make you sleep at night, good for you.

[RMQualtrough]

3 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Whatever. If those stories make you sleep at night, good for you.

This is a cult you're on rn, it's nothing BUT stories informed by a cult leader. Same type of people who go to Tony Robbins seminars and read "The Power of Now".

I don't know the name of the illness, but it's people who NEED someone to follow who post here copying Leo catchphrases and stuff: "it's so radical!" "are you open to the possibility" "become conscious of" etc.

Yesterday there was a total retard at the restaurant. He just randomly started punching his mom or carer whatever she was (he's a retard so just threw shit haymakers even this woman was able to block with ease). She had to guide him to even drink a glass of water. I just imagine that is the type of person.

[Nilsi]

30 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

This is a cult you're on rn, it's nothing BUT stories informed by a cult leader. Same type of people who go to Tony Robbins seminars and read "The Power of Now".

I don't know the name of the illness, but it's people who NEED someone to follow who post here copying Leo catchphrases and stuff: "it's so radical!" "are you open to the possibility" "become conscious of" etc.

Yesterday there was a total retard at the restaurant. He just randomly started punching his mom or carer whatever she was (he's a retard so just threw shit haymakers even this woman was able to block with ease). She had to guide him to even drink a glass of water. I just imagine that is the type of person.

You're lost in stories.

[Hojo]

@RMQualtrough You are very wise man. Keep the insights coming

Edited October 1, 2022 by Hojo