what is in the moment before thought?

[isabel]

what is happening in the moment that causes the mind to tell a story?

what is the mind reacting to?

thank you

 

[Bluff]

There is no such moment. The story is written in the emptiness of awareness. Look for what is in between two thoughts. You will find silence. 
 

There is a strain of thought; no reaction of a seperate mind that reacts to its own thoughts. The mind just is that what is counscious of the thought

[isabel]

@Bluff I can't find anything between two thoughts, that's why I'm wondering what is going on?

 

I do see a story being written in the emptiness of awareness - it's the past, even if it happened a split second ago, it's the past

so what is happening before it becomes the past?

 

[axiom]

6 minutes ago, isabel said:

@Bluff I can't find anything between two thoughts, that's why I'm wondering what is going on?

Nothing is going on until / unless someone comes along and tells a story about it.

6 minutes ago, isabel said:

so what is happening before it becomes the past?

Nothing. But it can look like it's really here and really now.

Edited September 28, 2022 by axiom

[Bluff]

6 minutes ago, isabel said:

I can't find anything between two thoughts, that's why I'm wondering what is going on?

Yes, you wont find an objective experience there. But you will find silence, peace, freedom and openess

stretch the moment between thoughts, so it doesnt vanish into the past to quickly. Catch and hold it in the present moment and understanding will follow

[isabel]

On 9/28/2022 at 0:58 PM, axiom said:

Nothing is going on until / unless someone comes along and tells a story about it.

thank you

 that's what I'm getting...but how can that work? 

for example I see myself just now a split second ago taking a sip of coffee, so that's the story, in the past

but what did the mind interact with to get that story?

[Breakingthewall]

we have to understand how our mind has been conditioned from birth to think. little by little everything has led us to live in the imaginary world of thought. It begins with language, the enormous strength that some words have, that grant acceptance or rejection, that is, life or death. and from these two poles the millions of ramifications. We have educated ourselves by watching movies, creating clouds of thought that create clouds of emotions. all based on the dichotomy life/death, good/evil. in the end, we are thinking machines, trapped in our minds, unable to escape, ever. it's a horrible business. Our entire species is caught up in this false madness, so we are stupid beyond belief as individuals, but smart as a species. Some of us want to get out of that false world no matter what, only because it's false, a fiction 

[isabel]

On 9/28/2022 at 1:04 PM, Bluff said:

Yes, you wont find an objective experience there. But you will find silence, peace, freedom and openess

stretch the moment between thoughts, so it doesnt vanish into the past to quickly. Catch and hold it in the present moment and understanding will follow

thank you, I will try

[axiom]

25 minutes ago, isabel said:

thank you

 that's what I'm getting...but how can that work? 

for example I see myself just now a split second ago taking a sip of coffee, so that's the story, in the past

but what did the mind interact with to get that story?

There is no mind. There is no interaction. There is only the appearance. This.

Actually, noone is thinking about this or seeing this. It's just appearing as it is, complete and undivided.

[isabel]

13 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

we have to understand how our mind has been conditioned from birth to think. little by little everything has led us to live in the imaginary world of thought. It begins with language, the enormous strength that some words have, that grant acceptance or rejection, that is, life or death. and from these two poles the millions of ramifications. We have educated ourselves by watching movies, creating clouds of thought that create clouds of emotions. all based on the dichotomy life/death, good/evil. in the end, we are thinking machines, trapped in our minds, unable to escape, ever. it's a horrible business. Our entire species is caught up in this false madness, so we are stupid beyond belief as individuals, but smart as a species. Some of us want to get out of that false world no matter what, only because it's false, a fiction 

yes, the story of the past is "false" meaning the idea that we are the people in the story is an illusion - real just not what we think

but something is happening...I wonder what that is...?

[Breakingthewall]

9 minutes ago, isabel said:

yes, the story of the past is "false" meaning the idea that we are the people in the story is an illusion - real just not what we think

but something is happening...I wonder what that is...?

The story of the past and the story of the present. Every stories are just thought . If you wonder what is that, is just another story. You just can be it, without interpretation. It's deep, alive. That shit of the histories keeps us in a fog

[axiom]

13 minutes ago, isabel said:

I wonder what that is...?

That's where separation begins.

[isabel]

10 minutes ago, axiom said:

There is no mind. There is no interaction. There is only the appearance. This.

Actually, noone is thinking about this or seeing this. It's just appearing as it is, complete and undivided.

 so everything is appearing, there is seeing - and then the mind says "I see" and creates the belief of a separate self in itself?

hmm or when you say there is no mind, does it mean there is not something separate from everything else called a mind? but there is the appearance of a mind?

thank you

[axiom]

8 minutes ago, isabel said:

 so everything is appearing, there is seeing - and then the mind says "I see" and creates the belief of a separate self in itself?

Very close. The mind doesn't exist either though. Really, "mind" is just a story about the appearance (that it must belong to something, else how could it be? But this is only dream logic)

The word 'seeing' also subtly implies duality. Really it's just appearance, complete on its own, without need of seeing. There is certainly what seems to be seeing, but this is a misapprehension borne of whatever self remains. 

[isabel]

21 hours ago, axiom said:

Very close. The mind doesn't exist either though. Really, "mind" is just a story about the appearance (that it must belong to something, else how could it be? But this is only dream logic)

The word 'seeing' also subtly implies duality. Really it's just appearance, complete on its own, without need of seeing. There is certainly what seems to be seeing, but this is a misapprehension borne of whatever self remains. 

 

just appearance - ok, I sort of understand that but not deeply, what do you recommend I do to really understand that?

thank you so much

[isabel]

21 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

The story of the past and the story of the present. Every stories are just thought . If you wonder what is that, is just another story. You just can be it, without interpretation. It's deep, alive. That shit of the histories keeps us in a fog

thank you for saying that, it makes sense I think, so at some point, stop wondering, stop asking questions and just be still? I've heard people say things like that before, I guess this is what they mean...

[Breakingthewall]

@isabel the words are always going to be there, but there is a big difference when they are in the background or in the foreground. the foreground is horrible, you are lost in them, dead in life. you cannot understand anything, you only use learned formulas and for you words are everything. in the background they are to describe what is in the foreground, which is you without words. the being that you are is without the need to be defined by concepts. addiction to words can be overcome, it's like a change of focus. you focus on sensations, the mind expands, it gains depth. words are there to define what is experienced. they are new words, not used. the need to learn from others decreases. you learn from yourself. That is to be alive