What is Leo's main shtick really about? Psychonautics vs. Spirituality

[puporing]

@axiom That's how it happened in my case...  The initial awakening literally felt like "I have escaped the matrix" that felt like inescapable suffering. 

[Leo Gura]

Nobody on this forum understands what God is.

Do not be fooled by them.

I am telling you that the Buddha was not Awake

The only one on this planet who fully understands God, is Me

That sounds insane. But it's absolutely true

Edited October 3, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Being_Ali33]

@Leo Gura but you are also not awake currently!

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Nobody on this forum understands what God is.

I am telling you that the Buddha was not Awake

[Ulax]

17 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

The Force or Tao seems like a better name than God.  God has too many images and baggage associated with it, whereas The Force is already naturally mysterious and abstract.  God is portrayed as a personal, powerful king.  The Force is portrayed as  impersonal, mystical energy within all things.  The Force is a better pointer to Infinity.  The Force is Infinity.  

I prefer Tao over God for the same reasons.

But I giggle when I think of Leo exclaiming, 'I am the force!' in his awakening videos. Switching to actualized.org might help with the cult accusations against actualized.org though. Critics will just think we're a bunch of hardcore star wars nerds instead ?.

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The only one on this planet who fully understands God, is Me

That sounds insane. But it's absolutely true

I think that maybe it could be true in some extent. 5 meo is extremely powerful. I'm just starting, it's not easy until you can do it really 

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Being_Ali33 said:

@Leo Gura but you are also not awake currently!

How do you know?

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I think that maybe it could be true in some extent. 5 meo is extremely powerful. I'm just starting, it's not easy until you can do it really 

It's not the 5-MeO. It's about deconstructing all your illusions.

[Being_Ali33]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

I think that maybe it could be true in some extent. 5 meo is extremely powerful. I'm just starting, it's not easy until you can do it really 

I believe it depends on the individual, I have had extreme degrees of awakening on psilocybin. Never tried 5Meo dmt, but I have had direct consciousness of everything Leo describes in his awakening experience videos.

[Being_Ali33]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

It's not the 5-MeO. It's about deconstructing all your illusions.

Yes!!

[axiom]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Nobody on this forum understands what God is.

Have you ever considered deleting the forum? Could be the quickest way to purge those unawake parts of yourself.

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, axiom said:

Have you ever considered deleting the forum? Could be the quickest way to purge those unawake parts of yourself.

Nice try, but you're not getting rid of me so easily, convenient though that would be for you

Edited October 3, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Breakingthewall]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

How do you know?

It's not the 5-MeO. It's about deconstructing all your illusions.

 

yes but to do it you need 5 meo and psychedelics. Without it's  impossible

[Danioover9000]

   SO! Which methods do you guys prefer: Meditating or psychedelics? Mine is much different.

[Being_Ali33]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

 

yes but to do it you need 5 meo and psychedelics. Without it's  impossible

You are very wrong!

[Leo Gura]

Since life is your dream, the method you need, is whichever you dream you need.

[Being_Ali33]

Just now, Danioover9000 said:

   SO! Which methods do you guys prefer: Meditating or psychedelics? Mine is much different.

Psychedelics can open you up to what consciousness is capable of, in my case I would mediate while on psychedelic for up to 8 hours.

So why not do both at the same time?

[Consilience]

5 hours ago, Batman said:

There is no shtick. In psychedelic awakening you are forced to awaken because the substance hinders the mind or opens the senses in a way that disrupts the mind. Because of the psychedelic ability to affect the mind profoundly and rapidly, the awakening is usually deep and intense, usually accompanied by crazy emotional/energetic release. 

The problem with psychedelic awakenings is many fold. One, it is only temporary, due to the effect of the substance on the mind. When mind goes back online, consciousness tends to fall back into identification with it. This way, even though it was clear in the trip that no solid or real identity exist anywhere in consciousness, the dream of being a separate self in a world with other objects continues. Second, if the conditions of the trip weren't adequate to fit the tripper (set, settings, dose), the psychedelic induced awakening can be too much for the mind or the body. The tripper might find himself confused, in horror, or just unable to grasp what has happened to him. The trip might even damage the "process" of awakening or transformation. Three, there might be an attachment to psychedelic awakenings, which may cause the practitioner to seek more psychedelic awakenings rather than the recognition of the identity mechanisms that causes seeking and repeated behavior. 

Psychedelic awakenings should be regarded and considered as serious science of the mind, for all that it implies. This is not to say that psychedelic awakenings are not conducive to enlightenment or transformation. They are probably the best way to divert the regular seeking mind from seeking material objectives to a spiritual "journey", and show us that things are not as solid or identity based as we think. They can also be very useful under the proper conditions to elicit insights on the mind, emotion, body, flow, connection with others, and much more. And they are freaking amazingly powerful just to explore Consciousness.

But when it comes to a fixed realization, shattering the illusion of identities or separation, a fixed shift in what consciousness take itself to be, they fall short. This is where spiritual practice comes in, a thorn to take out another thorn. Of course, the same egoic identity traps that hide in seeking psychedelic states/awakenings also lies in spiritual practice, if the identification process latches also to it. 

So all and all, psychedelics are amazing, and in fact I see them as very direct and intense gurus for initiating the "path". But going back again and again to visit them is no different than going back to an ashram to visit the guru. It is ok if you just want to have fun with your guru, enjoy his company and sit with him. But if you are going back and back again expecting him to wake you up, it is just feeding the seeking mind. People can attend satsang or even meditate for years and not wake up, because they are just satisfying the mind. So it is important to see if this comes from a psychological fixation on some activity or just innocence, honest, play, curiosity, love. It is a matter of clearly seeing what is the motive for what we are doing.

 

What a phenomenal write up. Love the guru analogy. 

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Being_Ali33 said:

You are very wrong!

The combination of psychedelics with meditation and the real intention of deconstructing each of the mental constructions is what will work. and 5 meo is the key. a single breakthrough of 5 meo will make everything different from then on. It's not something you can do sober, at least not the vast majority. Leo is brave and has gone fast. others will go slower, others faster still, but with real intention I think it's something quite simple. no less exciting for that, on the contrary.

 

[Danioover9000]

@Being_Ali33

29 minutes ago, Being_Ali33 said:

Psychedelics can open you up to what consciousness is capable of, in my case I would mediate while on psychedelic for up to 8 hours.

So why not do both at the same time?

   Glad you noticed the lack of nuance I gave! Yes, you don't have to treat psyches or meds as a binary only, but you could try. For example, for one month I'm going to try psychedelics, once a week and see what I think and feel. Then do one month of spiritual practices, and record what I think and feel. Later you can do both, like micro dosing a psychedelic while doing a simple meditation technique.

   You can also go out there and broadly research other methods too and test them out.

[Being_Ali33]

I don't know how to unquote, so Leo pls ignore me. 

yes exactly! why limit yourself to a single spiritual ideology, why not just explore everything out there.@Danioover9000 @Leo Gura

[RMQualtrough]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

By becoming more conscious than them.

No, it's simply a function of one's state of consciousness. Don't take it personally.

There is no measuring it, but the deeper you awaken the more obvious it becomes that most others haven't reached your level.

That's a serious problem. The only solution is to stay humble and keep exploring consciousness. You never know when you might hit a deeper level.

It's probably not the only way, but it's the most reliable way for people without special genetics to reach crazy high levels of consciousness.

If a better way is found, I am open to it. But I haven't seen anything come close to what psychedelics allow. Especially if you're not a professional monk.

You're ill dude LOL.

Doing so many drugs is life ruining. Even one serious ego death will haunt your entire life... Pretty much idiotic unless you're consumed by fear of death...