What is Leo's main shtick really about? Psychonautics vs. Spirituality

[UnbornTao]

4 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

There is no such thing as spirituality without “altered” states.

Well, first, abstract terms can be used very broadly. What are you referring to by spirituality?

States come and go. Are you saying that consciousness is a state, or that existence and states are mutually inclusive?

So if one isn't in an altered state, one doesn't exist?

What do you even mean by state?

You'll now come at it with Leo's narrative of "everything is a state" but thanks, no. No parroting.

[Leo Gura]

I hope I'm allowed to parrot myself. Everything is state

It's not a narrative. You're in some state right now. And that's always the case.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Thought Art]

Turning the infinitely facetted cosmic intelligence radio station - Audience of One

[UnbornTao]

59 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I hope I'm allowed to parrot myself. Everything is state

It's not a narrative. You're in some state right now. And that's always the case.

So you are a state?

The absolute isn't a state by nature. State is relative.

Edited September 29, 2022 by UnbornTao

[Breakingthewall]

On 28/9/2022 at 9:28 PM, Adamq8 said:

says.

On 28/9/2022 at 7:53 PM, Consilience said:

 

 

13 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

So you are a state?

The absolute isn't a state by nature. State is relative.

Exactly, the absolute is all the states, so no state. States are relative 

[Carl-Richard]

10 hours ago, Thought Art said:

“Seeking the sacred” isn’t even what I would call spirituality. That’s like a single strain. 

Spirituality is a broad term. I will provide what I think is a better definition. 

If you had read past that first little sentence, you would know that I'm really only talking about a traditional type of spirituality that is generally associated with the world religions (Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, etc.). What I'm not talking about is for example a belief in supernatural phenomena (ghosts, crystals, auras, etc.), or being interested in personal development, or shamanism, or psychedelics.

I'm talking about the place that all these non-dual teachers I've mentioned in some way draw their inspiration from or resonate with. The crucial characteristics of that place, along with "the search for the sacred", is a deeply embedded notion of progress/growth/transformation. I happened to go for a stroll on Wikipedia, and they put it like this:

Quote

Traditionally, spirituality referred to a religious process of re-formation which "aims to recover the original shape of man", oriented at "the image of God" as exemplified by the founders and sacred texts of the religions of the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality

 

Notice how strongly it alludes to the concept of transformation. This is also tied to the historical origin of the "mythological worldview", which in a very fundamental way created the distinction between "who you are now" and "who you could be", and which arose in tandem with the world religions. John Vervaeke explains this very well here:

10:35

 

 

Leo hasn't managed to change his default experience into abiding non-dual awareness, and he has said he is more interested in experiencing deeper and deeper psychedelic states. This specific choice, is what I'm saying falls outside this traditional conception of spirituality.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[Thought Art]

@Carl-Richard Namaste 

☯️

[RMQualtrough]

1 hour ago, Thought Art said:

Turning the infinitely facetted cosmic intelligence radio station - Audience of One

How's "Audience of None"?

That sounds like a band name or something.

[UnbornTao]

@Leo Gura is it like saying that everything is occurring as a process?

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

So you are a state?

You are God, the taker of all possible states. You are any state you are in, but not limited to any particular state.

Whatever is occurring is what you are.

Quote

The absolute isn't a state by nature. State is relative.

Every state is absolute if you are conscious enough.

5 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

@Leo Gura is it like saying that everything is occurring as a process?

No

Edited September 30, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Thought Art]

@RMQualtrough

 

[Nilsi]

Calling yourself awake or enlightened, as these spiritual gurus do, is a completely arbitrary and deceptive statement. God is always beyond your finite little existence, no matter how "spiritual" you think you are. 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Nilsi

[Devin]

22 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Calling yourself awake or enlightened, as these spiritual gurus do, is a completely arbitrary and deceptive statement. God is always beyond your finite little existence, no matter how "spiritual" you think you are. 

How could you be awake or enlightened if you claim to be? The only reason to make the claim would be a desire, therefore you're not awake

Edited September 30, 2022 by Devin

[UnbornTao]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Whatever is occurring is what you are.

Huh?

[Nilsi]

3 hours ago, Devin said:

How could you be awake or enlightened if you claim to be? The only reason to make the claim would be a desire, therefore you're not awake

The point is that noone is awake, else we couldn't have this conversation. Neither Leo nor Ralston nor anyone else is awake. Awakening is not something that you can attain and keep; either you are awake or you are not - everything you see in these gurus are just extraordinary degrees of consciousness/development or whatever the fuck you wanna call it.

[Devin]

59 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

The point is that noone is awake, else we couldn't have this conversation. Neither Leo nor Ralston nor anyone else is awake. Awakening is not something that you can attain and keep; either you are awake or you are not - everything you see in these gurus are just extraordinary degrees of consciousness/development or whatever the fuck you wanna call it.

I disagree with the first part

How do you define awake?

I think the common definition is you truly think for yourself

[Nilsi]

7 minutes ago, Devin said:

I disagree with the first part

How do you define awake?

I think the common definition is you truly think for yourself

Lol. Awake as in you're conscious that you're God. 

 

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Nilsi said:

The point is that noone is awake, else we couldn't have this conversation. Neither Leo nor Ralston nor anyone else is awake. Awakening is not something that you can attain and keep; either you are awake or you are not - everything you see in these gurus are just extraordinary degrees of consciousness/development or whatever the fuck you wanna call it.

What traditional spirituality calls awakening looks like something in the brain:

32:19 - 33:28

 

[Nilsi]

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

What traditional spirituality calls awakening looks like something in the brain:

32:19 - 33:28

 

Come on man, you know that kind of reductionism doesn't tell you jack shit about absolute reality.

I understand what they are saying, but that's not what awakening (or God-realisation) actually refers to.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Nilsi

[Kuba Powiertowski]

Between the experience of the micro universe - your body - and the experience of the macro universe - of what exists outside the body, there is the experience of the human mind trying to figure out wtf is going on, to control whatever it can, and to implement its increasingly confusing agenda. This is a really good joke! One of the best:)