Why leo says no one is awake

[axiom]

5 hours ago, Consilience said:

If you don’t have the humility to recognize wisdom, to recognize awakened mind outside of the activity of your own mind (ie the ability to recognize an awakened mind in a teacher), you’re pretty much fucked. 

There is no you to have humility.

There is no teacher.

There is no you to be fucked.

[Someone here]

8 hours ago, Consilience said:

The mistake is thinking your little ego mind and body are some kind of authority figure, which by the tone and judgement of other teachers, seems to be the implicit assumption.

“Because Im god, Im the ultimate authority, therefore, other teachers can’t hold authority over me.” This entire chain of reason is mired in self clinging, self deception, and illusion. 
 

It’s really quite simple. If you are God, and God is solipsistic, any teacher is also a manifestation of you. Therefore, when giving one’s authority over to a teacher, you’re really choosing to give authority over to yourself. The question is, as God, do you give authority over to the ego/mind, or a teacher? Both are you. In either decision, you’ve handed your authority over to yourself. This is the part this post misses, and Leo missed as well.

Which is more trustworthy? A spiritual master, or your petty ego/mind? 

 

A spiritual guru can only point to the truth. The seeker has to remove his ignorace himself.

Unlike other fields, spirituality is so much dependent on the individual than the Guru. A true Guru allows you to find your own truth. No Guru should tell you what he “sees” with the minds eye. Even if he does he should give a disclaimer “what I see may not be what you see, but we revel in the same truth”, else it would be academic.

A Guru is not sought. He falls in your lap, when you are open to the ever present Grace. I am so lucky Gurus in the multitudes of names and forms kept falling in my lap. My current external Guru is aligned with my internal Sat Guru, so there are no contradictions. He is a Scholar as well as a Jnani. Someone referred him to me on my Facebook page, when I had already done plenty of Scriptural reading and full of 'Spiritual Ego'. I consider myself so lucky, I wish the same to every seeker.

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

A spiritual guru can only point to the truth. The seeker has to remove his ignorace himself.

Point the truth is absolutely useless. The only useful thing is point the lies

[Someone here]

3 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

Solopsism is bullshit

 

do you all really think I don’t exist? There is no experience happening over here!? Helllooooo. Or am I just your imagination right now? Then stop imagining me! Let’s do an experiment. Wipe me out! Couldn’t do it? Huh, weird. Cuz you’re all like God or something. 
 

What a self indulgent, ego boosting convenience. Only YOU are real and everyone else is just YOUR imagination. YOU created them all, they only exist because of YOU! 
 

This is so lame and deluded. You have to be seriously insecure and wanting to be special to fall into this trap of Solopsism. Listen to the greats, the highest teaching is alleviating all beings from suffering. You think those guys were just fucking around saying that to be cute? To not spoil the little game of Solopsism? 
 

Its a fucking delusion  

Look..From a philosophical standpoint..which I think is the necessary one in this situation, since it is likely you are afraid of the philosophical implications of these thoughts and such..let us analyze your situation. You are likely the only existent being within a universe that only exists within your mind, as this is the technical definition of solipsism. First, you know that you exist because you have conscious awareness of your thoughts and have logically considered what it means for other people not to exist. So we can surely agree that you exist, based on this logic. 

Now prove to me the existence of others? 

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Point the truth is absolutely useless. The only useful thing is point the lies

Why? What's the difference? 

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Someone here said:

Why? What's the difference? 

3 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Why? What's the difference? 

for the truth to manifest you have to eliminate the lies. if someone tells you: this is the truth, you incorporate it as one more lie. they are all lies, since the thinking mind is a lie by definition. It is a simulator of reality whose function is to adapt the individual and the species to the environment. simulator is synonymous with lies

[Someone here]

@Breakingthewall

Your self is in the mind. Your idea about who you are is in your mind. Your thoughts, beliefs, convictions, hopes, dreams and plans are in your mind. Your memories are in your mind. Your knowledge is in your mind, and your opinions are in your mind.

Your relationships are in your mind. Your feelings towards others, your needs, attachment, are all in your mind. Your love is in your mind.

The only aspect of you that you are aware of that is not in your mind is your physical body. When you remove the mind from the body, when the body is all there is, it is called a coma, or a vegetative state.

Pretty much everything that you mean when you say “I”, “myself”, “me” is in your mind. The “real you” is in your mind as well, and all the spiritual stuff also.

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Your self is in the mind. Your idea about who you are is in your mind. Your thoughts, beliefs, convictions, hopes, dreams and plans are in your mind. Your memories are in your mind. Your knowledge is in your mind, and your opinions are in your mind.

Exactly, you are the obstacle for the truth to manifest. a seemingly insurmountable obstacle. That's why you have to use psychedelics or give up everything and meditate for years.

[Someone here]

13 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Exactly, you are the obstacle for the truth to manifest. a seemingly insurmountable obstacle. That's why you have to use psychedelics or give up everything and meditate for years.

I agree . Doesn't contradict my point .

[Consilience]

One of the deepest traps on the path is believing in your own independence and trusting that which is untrustworthy. The tricky part is that while the ego is untrustworthy, it also lacks the clarity to recognize it’s own untrustworthiness. To throw out the utility of spiritual masters before you’re ready is a dire mistake and can lead one down many dead ends, such as psychedelics being the route to real awakening, or neo advaita like ideology as @axiom seems to have adopted.
 

There is no spiritual master, which is precisely why it is a good idea to trust in one. To trust in a masters help is to trust in yourself. To recognize the interconnectedness of all is wisdom. To separate and cling, as the OP implies, is foolishness.

 

Edit: if you think any of these comments suggest a master can do the work for you or somehow give you awakening, you’re projecting. This is not what I am suggesting at all. But a master, a real one and one you resonate with, can see ways you’re deluding yourself and point them out. When encountering a real master, there is no longer a you encountering a master, just a culminating of powerful forces interacting, reality working itself out without any self interference. 

Edited September 27, 2022 by Consilience

[Someone here]

@Consilience

Consider a human experience of life: from birth, a human learns from other humans.

Parents, teachers, priests, guides, counselors guide a human from birth, through childhood, through teenage years, through young adulthood and into adulthood.

There is no time in the human life when a human is considered taught, guided, counseled and coached and mentored, and is expected to take his life on by himself.

It is not surprising that, inside of this way of being, this way of living, one needs a human to guide one on the spiritual path. After all one has a human to guide one on all other paths.

Consider gurus  ..most of them had gurus, who had gurus, who had gurus, who had gurus. Teachers who had teachers, who had teachers who had teachers. Lineages of teachers going back for hundreds of years. Humans learning from humans who learned from humans who learned from humans. Teachings written by humans, followed by humans.

Do you need all that? No, you don’t. Your spiritual journey is YOUR journey to YOURSELF. You. No one else needs to be involved. No one else is necessary to you being you. 

[Arthogaan]

4 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Do you need all that? No, you don’t. Your spiritual journey is YOUR journey to YOURSELF. You. No one else needs to be involved. No one else is necessary to you being you

Kinda Ironic coming from someone who studies filosophy on a university and has thousands of posts on a forum of a teacher. 

[Kksd74628]

@Consilience

Exactly! Even if a direct experience is your best guidance there's an utility to hear different ideas so you could have new insights to almost anything. An insight is new thought that you didn't have and what would be a better way to have them than from someone else who thinks differently than you. It would be incredibly stupid decision to stop listening other people, but still continuing to listen yourself . When you start to treat life as a movie that is being presented you start to appreciate all thoughts no matter where they come. Even your thoughts come from "outside of you".

@Someone here

Read the thing above and it's answer for your message to Consilience.

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, Arthogaan said:

Kinda Ironic coming from someone who studies filosophy on a university and has thousands of posts on a forum of a teacher. 

Why is it ironic ?

I know It is not easy to stand on your own, on your own path. It is not easy to walk it on your own, by yourself. There is no one standing between you and yourself, and you have to face yourself squarely, uncompromisingly, with ruthless honesty, with merciless clarity.

There is no one to hold your hand, to support you, to help you manage, to make it easier, safer, nicer. There is no one there to tell you what is happening, what you are seeing, what you are experiencing - you must see it for yourself, and that means you must be willing to see what is no matter how much you don’t want to, no matter how much you wish to hide from it, no matter how much you don’t want it to be, to exist.

This is what walking the spiritual path by yourself looks like.

[Someone here]

@Kksd74628 I didn't understand.  Say it  again in a different way.

[Kksd74628]

@Someone here

The main point is that listening to other's thoughts can help you realize something, because it's usually different way of looking at the thing. That can be extremely fruitful in your personal journey towards wherever you want to go. I'd say it's a luxury to be able to talk to other people, because that alone increases your perspective of things. What you're saying is important thing also; you're captain of your life. The point is learn as much as you can and sometimes the information comes from your thoughts, sometimes from your experience and occasionally from other people. Even if some books are better than others you shouldn't throw worse ones away.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Kksd74628
Typo

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

@Someone here

The main point is that listening to other's thoughts can help you realize something, because it's usually different way of looking at the thing. That can be extremely fruitful in your personal journey towards wherever you want to go. I'd say it's a luxury to be able to talk to other people, because that alone increases your perspective of things. What you're saying is important thing also; you're captain of your life. The point is learn as much as you can and sometimes the information comes from your thoughts, sometimes from your experience and occasionally from other people. Even if some books are better than others you shouldn't throw worse ones away.

 

No matter how many times someone else insists on imparting something important, we can’t really understand it.

When it comes to the big life lessons, we cannot be taught. We  learn only through our direct experience.

When we go through it we are quick and eager to offer it to others. “Look, look” we say, heart open, hands open like an offering. “I have this great insight that I think can help you” and no one listens.

No one listens, and no one believes you, until they are receptive and ready to listen.

Do you know what makes people receptive and ready to listen?

Going through their own experience.

[Kksd74628]

@Someone here

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

We learn only through our direct experience.

I guess you learnt to talk, cook, meditate, do mathematics, write, speak foreign languages etc. all by yourself. If you believe that you should do your own personal journey by yourself and so should I, why are you having this discussion with me in the first place? You're right that I cannot live your life and do meditation for you, but I can give you an idea, perspective or a hint of what you could do. Everyone is just offering an idea and you're correct that the decision is on you if you want to see it or not. That doesn't still make what I say right now useless and if it would you wouldn't be replying to me.

[Someone here]

5 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

@Someone here

I guess you learnt to talk, cook, meditate, do mathematics, write, speak foreign languages etc. all by yourself. If you believe that you should do your own personal journey by yourself and so should I, why are you having this discussion with me in the first place? You're right that I cannot live your life and do meditation for you, but I can give you an idea, perspective or a hint of what you could do. Everyone is just offering an idea and you're correct that the decision is on you if you want to see it or not. That doesn't still make what I say right now useless and if it would you wouldn't be replying to me.

Yes I learned these things from others . But we are talking here about spiritual teachings and teachers.  This is different by the subject itself:spirituality is not like school  subjects .

You do not need a Guru until you need one.

And when you need one, He/She unfailingly comes from the woods.

It sounds illogical but that is how it is all the times.

The Earth hanging in the middle of nowhere, is illogical too. But that is how it is.

By the way, if you were asking if you need to buy a Guru from the spiritual supermarket, you do not need to.

Keep and respect them as teachers, and learn the scriptures, meditation tips, and such. This is the safe and sane equation.

A Guru is not in your control. You can neither find one nor escape one. Relax!

 

[Consilience]

@Kksd74628 Im not sure why my communication came across so clearly to you but keeps stirring the pot in others.. ? But yes exactly, what you’re describing is spit on.