Humiliated and descended to the lowest level a man can experience

[Federico del pueblo]

10 hours ago, puporing said:

Sorry to hear about that. It's really out of your control sometimes. I remember your thread about it recently.

You just gotta remind yourself daily that in God's eyes there's absolute equality, you're not lower or higher, but maybe closer to God. And that everything is here to help you (specifically to evolve spiritually), including the hardships. When you're ready, one day you'll realize the ignorance was there to help you expand your love. 

The majority of people are very cut off from God and fall into the game of hierarchy. It's just that right now it is like a force of gravity anytime you try to interact with someone. Maybe you can write about it, create art out of your repressed feelings and visions, let it be fuel to your evolution. : )

Thanks for your kind words! You're a very good soul (well...I don't know if souls exist, but you know what I mean ?).

I especially like the  

Quote

When you're ready, one day you'll realize the ignorance was there to help you expand your love. 

That's deep stuff right there. So thank you a lot!

 

9 hours ago, ThePoint said:

I feel ya bro. People just make bold assumptions on the outside because these mystery chronic illnesses are not visible from the outside. 

What did you respond with when that person told you what they told you? 

Oh yes, that's very true. If people see me they think "this dude seems so vital, there's no way he could be dealing with anything serious".

I responded with something like "I think you're misunderstanding something here, like I'm not doing this to have some eternal vacation financed by the government, but because I have no other option" and then explained a few more things.

But all seemed to go over his head. He had some really weird perception, kind of like assuming that I simply don't know what to do with my life and there for I just chill and do nothing. Just really silly, but yeah I should not even have taken it seriously at all, considering his level of alcohol intoxication he already had...

[BlessedLion]

12 hours ago, Federico del pueblo said:

I don’t ask for a whole lot of advice on this forum ever. Usually I like to give advice and be supportive for everyone.

Tonight is different.  I've been humiliated.  

The situation in general:

A grown ass man with a masters degree in engineering is incapable of making a living for himself...due to a mysterious, not well understood chronic illness.

So the man is dependent on some kind of social benefit, to survive. 

Most people understand this, some don't. 

It's a challenge to try to build any kind of healthy self esteem based on these circumstances. 

So today was the wedding of my very best friend. 

Everything was fun and positive. 

Until I had one conversation with a family member of my best friend.

"Hey man...I was thinking about doing the same thing that you're doing...you know....just not work at all...maybe take advantage of some kind of social benefit and maybe just do some "black work" on top of that to have a great life without having to worry.

Wait, you should be very knowledgeable about that kind of stuff, what do you think???!!!?"

And more BS like that.

That is about as humiliating as it gets for a man.

Already having 0 status you get humiliated for your low level of status, but also you get accused of taking advantage of your state (for receiving benefits).

It actually doesn't matter if it's man or woman, but you know  that especially for a man it's a very strong low blow if somebody just takes a shit on your low level of status/achievements, especially if you know that you'd completely smoke this guy in a small glass pipe, under normal circumstances...

Bros and sis' ...just give me a bunch of positive words...I'm degraded...society has thrown me in a thrash can.

I've been working my ass off for year's trying to improve my fucked up situation, it's hard, it's complicated...

And then some asshole comes along and makes me feel like shit.

No idea what else to say.

Just help your good old Federico dude who's normally writing long ass posts to improve your own tough shit, because my honor has been completely taken away.

Sorry brother. That’s a low blow. I’m just curious was he saying it in a sarcastic degrading way or was he seriously interested and just kinda socially stupid? 
 

I’ve had people say to me for example “aw you’re living it up man I’d love to just sell all my shit and be a hippie on the beach” but they don’t say it in a disrespectful way. So I don’t take it personally. 

My next point is that he has no understanding of your situation and is just projecting. Don’t let his insecurity pull you down

[Federico del pueblo]

9 hours ago, Eph75 said:

This maybe does not make any sense from where you are coming, but if that's as humiliating as it gets for a man, what's called for is to become "more than a man", meant in a very much so obtainable way. 

So you mean in a spiritual sense, like expanding my sense of self into something much bigger than "a man"?

 

10 hours ago, Eph75 said:

Imagine what kind of suffering this involves for the person coming up with this, what to me seems like passive-aggressive behavior, and the suffering that person is enduring around you manifesting in their mind.

Must be horrible for them.

Sure. The context is interesting here considering that the dude is someone who literally works every day, Monday to Sunday, 12-15 hours. He has some businesses in the field of construction (like roof constructions and steel constructions of all kinds) and is the definition of a hustler. Seems like someone with very conservative values.

So I don't know if he's doing it out of passion or because he was raised to believe in work above everything else, but I don't think it's healthy to work that much (and hard af), but who knows, maybe it's good for him.

8 hours ago, NoSelfSelf said:

All this post is based upon someone elses standards that you try to match to, like if im not this im basically useles

Correct. That's like 90% of the emotional side of things in my case. Others' perceptions of me regarding a bunch of specific things like the health/job Situation.

It is what it is. It's improving though. Actually today I'm already much more chill about the incident. That was just a very narrow, socially conditioned mindset combined with too much alcohol.

8 hours ago, NoSelfSelf said:

Its a deeper issue i know but its like from your pov if those people are not enlightened or in process or getting enlightened they are the worst failiures ever...

I don't really judge people who are not enlightened or in the process of getting enlightened as failures, I mean I'm far from being enlightened myself ?

[Federico del pueblo]

6 hours ago, Ulax said:

Brother I feel sympathetic. I want to try and help meet your need for respect. I will try to do this by guessing at what happened in the situation. So as to try and provide you with an understanding of the situation.

The way I see the situation, which can only be a guess, is the following:

This other man is living a life where he finds himself wanting a greater sense of ease in his life, and he is looking for some support and understanding in terms of doing so. Maybe too he feels that he isn't significant just as he is, and so he meets his need for significance by thinking his guesses about other people's situations are actually the reality of their situations. Hence, he makes a guess in his mind about what your situation is, and meets his need to feel significant by treating his guess as being true. So he translates his guess that you are taking advantage of the social system into a truth.

He then realises that if he could take advantage of the social system in the way he thinks you do, then he could meet his need for understanding regarding how to be at greater ease in his life. Further, he may see you as a useful source of support in doing so. So, to meet this need for understanding and support he asks you the question about how you take advantage of the social system.

So, from his side, it may well have been that he was simply trying to meet his needs for significance, ease, support and understanding. To me it follows that what he said wasn't really a result of who you are, instead it was a result of him trying to meet his needs in a way in a way that put him out of touch with the reality of the situation. Also, even if I am mistaken in my guess, I still think its nevertheless true that whatever he was doing was simply a way, based on his life experience and genetics, he was trying to meet his needs in life. Hence, whatever he said wasn't a result of who you are.

Oh wow man, those are some very interesting thoughts and I hadn't thought about it in this way. Thanks for sharing that perspective.

 

6 hours ago, Ulax said:

Moving on to your perspective of the situation. From what it sounds like to me, you interpreted his communications in a way that led to you feeling humiliated because you felt disrespected and misunderstood. My guess being that in your culture, people learn that those who are seen to be taking advantage of the social system should be condemned and treated as lesser people than other citizens. So, to be mistakenly equated with people taking advantage is interpreted as meaning you now are vulnerable to being seen as a lesser person and vulnerable to condemnation. Does that sound accurate to you?

That sounds exactly like my experience.

Because it is true that in my society people who exploit the social system are judged very negatively. There are even like specific phrases and denominations for people who do that.

I live in Germany, Germany could be considered a "performance society", like you are what you achieve.

And then there silly sayings like "Hartz 4 und der Tag gehört dir" which translates to "Hartz 4 (the name of some kind of social benefit) and the day is yours" poking fun at people who just prefer to stay at home and watch TV and drink beer, financed by other people's tax money.

So from there comes my insecurity, because I can be afraid to be put in one box with all these lazy, unambitious people who live from other people's money. And the fact that you would not at all be able to tell that I'm dealing with some debilitating condition adds to that anxiety, I might even look like I'm more vital/vibrant and positive than a lot of other people, which can sometimes inhibit me a bit too, because I don't want to look all too well and positive after having told someone about my situation to not look like some simulated.

I know this is all silly, but these mental programs are rooted deep. I've had to do a lot of work to improve the insecurity about this stigma and there's still some more to be done.

6 hours ago, Ulax said:

I don't know you on a close level personally. However, I see you posting frequently on the forum and I tend to notice what I see to be traits of determination, perseverance and open minded in many of them. And I want to communicate that I respect that and has helped me to meet my need for inspiration and hope before. So, you have been significant in helping me live a better life before, and I personally value your presence on this forum.

Thanks for all the kind words man. I appreciate that I can be helpful for some of you.

All the best for you!

[NoSelfSelf]

@Federico del pueblo i meant society/family looking you as failiure because you dont have a job is like you seeing them as failiure because they are not enlightened... 

Its something outside of you that determines your worth its really bad...

Just an example

Edited September 25, 2022 by NoSelfSelf

[Eph75]

23 minutes ago, Federico del pueblo said:

So you mean in a spiritual sense, like expanding my sense of self into something much bigger than "a man"?

Well yes, but I mean in it a very literal obtainable sense - not in a "I am God and trancendant one with all". 

It's impossible to separate development and spirituality, as they're both cognitive/perspective/consciousness evolution but you end up with two different "flavors". 

Pursuing enlightenment is a false pursuit that can't be obtained from the desire of pursuit - but - cognitive development allows for a structured approach towards increasing complexity. There just needs to be intention and relentless pursuit. 

There's an emotional trigger here, there's impuls control to be developed where there's a choice to ride along with the emotional content, and being able to detach from going with the motion of the e-motion. There's perspective development that puts what happened into new light. And there's development of cognitive complexity that completely changes the meaning of that event. 

These are the growing up from human infancy (which might be a triggering expression) into human adulthood - waking up out of the game we're finding ourselves immerced in to a degree that we don't know we're playing games. 

That situation is happening in the game and you are being so attached to the character in that situation, identifying with "him" so that whatever takes place is happening to "you".

Why it hurts is because it's made personal. It's made personal partly because of the personal attachment to emotions. 

Development is a big topic, but emotional development isn't that hard to take on. It of course depends on surrendering into that developmental process, which means that you have to be ready for it.

Sorry, this got bigger than intended, and difficult to grasp from one post. 

 

Edited September 25, 2022 by Eph75

[Federico del pueblo]

3 hours ago, universe said:

I'd advice you welcome those feelings of humiliation and feeling like shit. Become at peace with your situation. Accept and let go.

If you constantly repress feelings they tend to get stronger and people will push on them in order to trigger you.

 

Then when you are at peace with it all these kind of converssations wouldn't trigger you at all.

You could answer something like "Yes, I think you would be a perfect fit for my coaching program where I teach others how to not have to work a single day in their life again!" and then everytime you see them you pitch it to them again. Then at the end of the wedding ask for their phone number and be very persistent with reminding them of how shitty they feel, working every day. And what they could accomplish with your coaching, how their life could look like. With just a 4.000$ investment into your coaching. Until they block you on their phone  

Haha, oh wow! That is boss level self assertiveness here. I like it ? 

 

@Sincerity Thanks! I appreciate that.

@Lila9 Thank you so much, that's a good reminder!

[Ulax]

7 minutes ago, Federico del pueblo said:

Oh wow man, those are some very interesting thoughts and I hadn't thought about it in this way. Thanks for sharing that perspective.

 

That sounds exactly like my experience.

Because it is true that in my society people who exploit the social system are judged very negatively. There are even like specific phrases and denominations for people who do that.

I live in Germany, Germany could be considered a "performance society", like you are what you achieve.

And then there silly sayings like "Hartz 4 und der Tag gehört dir" which translates to "Hartz 4 (the name of some kind of social benefit) and the day is yours" poking fun at people who just prefer to stay at home and watch TV and drink beer, financed by other people's tax money.

So from there comes my insecurity, because I can be afraid to be put in one box with all these lazy, unambitious people who live from other people's money. And the fact that you would not at all be able to tell that I'm dealing with some debilitating condition adds to that anxiety, I might even look like I'm more vital/vibrant and positive than a lot of other people, which can sometimes inhibit me a bit too, because I don't want to look all too well and positive after having told someone about my situation to not look like some simulated.

I know this is all silly, but these mental programs are rooted deep. I've had to do a lot of work to improve the insecurity about this stigma and there's still some more to be done.

Thanks for all the kind words man. I appreciate that I can be helpful for some of you.

All the best for you!

@Federico del pueblo All the best to you too :).

Would you like a book recommendation btw? I believe it helped me to understand the style of perspective I gave to you.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Ulax

[Federico del pueblo]

4 minutes ago, Ulax said:

Would you like a book recommendation btw?

Sure. Which book is it?

[Ulax]

@Federico del pueblo Nonviolent Communication -- A Language of Life: Life-Changing Tools for Healthy Relationships (Nonviolent Communication Guides) Paperback – 1 Sept. 2015 by Marshall B. Rosenberg.

This video, to my mind, also can be used as an alternative to the book: 

 

[Federico del pueblo]

@Eph75 Ok, thanks. That makes lot of sense.

Becoming better at observing the emotion and perceiving of it as an event, rather than my personal problem.

I could have known about that approach from the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. I'll try to be more mindful, less attached to and less judgemental about my emotions.

[Federico del pueblo]

@Ulax Oh yeah, I've heard of that book many times and still haven't taken the time to read/listen to it.

Thanks for the recommendation.

[Ulax]

@Federico del pueblo You're welcome

[Federico del pueblo]

1 hour ago, hyruga said:

Even Owen Cook also mentioned that he has been humiliated by other guys when he first started gaming.

Interesting.

Any chance you can still remember a specific video in which he talked about that?

Or has this gotten lost when all the older videos got deleted?

[Dear Fiona]

@Federico del pueblo  This whole thread is utterly beautiful. Mate, this is such a huge opportunity for you to go deeper, and get what you're really looking for, which is NOT other people's good opinion of you. 
Humiliation is linked to shame, which, as opposed to guilt, which is feeling bad about actions we have done, shame and humiliation are feeling bad about our identity, things inherent to us, things we cannot change. EG, skin colour, gender, body type, illness. etc. 
In my own direct experience, embracing shame lead to the most amazing experience of intimacy and connection to the ineffable/divine/God, ever. 
I HONESTLY love shame now. Although the thing with embracing emotions, is that they then naturally drop away, so I rarely feel shame anymore. When I do, I feel it on my upper arms. 
But, it's an invitation, and  a call to intimacy, and being vulnerable. And also a sublte message from the body, cos we are intelligently designed ! 
In any given situation, that emotion of shame and humiliation, is either a call to NOT share the most vulnerable parts of ourselves in that situation/with that person. And that's ok. 
But in another situation, it's a beautiful invitation to share the most vulnerable, fragile, innocent parts of ourselves with others, and to be loved in that.
I'm so so lucky to have met my soul mate in this life time, and to know true love. It took till I was 44. After much heartbreak. 
We don't love each other cos we are wonderful, amazing, perfect. 
We love each other warts and all. he has seen me at my worst, and still loves me. 

That's why this thread is so beautiful. 
You made a first step into this here. You shared your vulnerability. And I didn't see a wink of "victimhood" Just honesty.

I'm a woman. It's sexy. Trust me. 
So embrace it !  
Oh. And by the way. I totally re-invented myself at age 40, after horrific divorce. I also feel like I'm re-inventing myself now, age 52, after waking up a couple of years ago. 
You have lots of things to look forward to. 

Edited September 25, 2022 by Dear Fiona

[Eph75]

1 hour ago, Federico del pueblo said:

I could have known about that approach from the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. I'll try to be more mindful, less attached to and less judgemental about my emotions.

Ah yes. 

But this requires dedication to that cause and practicing it in every moment of every interaction.

Changing how we think will not just happen. 

E.g. make an explicit commitment to introspect in every interaction and event from today until New Year about observing your emotions, read up on affection theory and emotions, books and articles, journal your emotions daily, and use tools like the emotions wheel to articulate what the nuances of exoerienced emotions are. Not lead, keep asking yourself if you are your emotions and your thoughts, or whether you choose to let them go (not surpress).

Let the practice completely absorb you, day and night. 

See what happens. 

Edited September 25, 2022 by Eph75

[Osaid]

14 hours ago, Federico del pueblo said:

I've been working my ass off for year's trying to improve my fucked up situation, it's hard, it's complicated...

Yeah, you understand yourself better than anyone there. This is a fact which many people take for granted. It means that you, yourself, have the greatest capacity of loving yourself, because you understand yourself so completely. You know what they're saying isn't true. That's where the resistance is coming from. What they are saying is not in alignment with reality, so you feel resistance to it. Since you are yourself, you understand yourself better than anyone at that party can, and consequently, you have the greatest potential for loving yourself, because you understand yourself so well. You obviously don't think what they're saying is correct, or else you'd just agree with it. You actually don't need other people to understand you in order to feel fulfilled, that's just a survival habit you've formed. You're using other people as a proxy to feel bad about yourself.

The resistance is this:

Deep down, you know what they said is BS. It doesn't even make sense. It doesn't really apply to you. That's not the type of person you are. It's literally something the guy said on a whim without having any knowledge on your situation.

On the other hand, your ego mind is wracking itself over it, because of survival reasons. Status, what other people think of you, what it will mean in the future, etc. It wants them to change their mind. This feeling of "shit" feels so strong because it's a survival game from the ego's perspective, and the ego takes survival very seriously, and so it elicits a very serious response.

The ego wants to prove itself to other people, so that other people understand it better and then it can feel better about itself again. It's possible to skip this step and go straight to the source of love, which is you, not necessarily other people. The ego delegates some of your love to other people for survival reasons. The truth is, you can decide to love yourself right now, but you will notice a feeling of resistance pop up from the ego. "No, you can't just love yourself after what happened, those people need to understand what they said is wrong, are you really gonna let them misrepresent you like that?, etc." You can choose to get pulled into the ego's game here, or just accept that you will never have full control over what people think of you and surrender to it.

2 hours ago, Federico del pueblo said:

I responded with something like "I think you're misunderstanding something here, like I'm not doing this to have some eternal vacation financed by the government, but because I have no other option" and then explained a few more things.

But all seemed to go over his head. He had some really weird perception, kind of like assuming that I simply don't know what to do with my life and there for I just chill and do nothing. Just really silly, but yeah I should not even have taken it seriously at all, considering his level of alcohol intoxication he already had...

See, the ego's game is unwinnable. You're not gonna control what everyone thinks about you. That's the end of it. The ego will go insane over this fact and resist it, until you decide to surrender to it and be ok with it. The resistance you feel comes from a denial of reality. Peace comes when you align yourself with reality, which is that you will never have full control over what people think. The reason you encounter resistance in reality is because you trap yourself in these endless unwinnable ego games. Of course you're gonna feel like shit when you expect to have complete control over what some drunk idiot thinks about you. It's UNWINNABLE, surrender to this and realize that you don't have to win or play any stupid ego games, you can just accept and surrender and be at peace with it, and you will ask yourself why you even cared to begin with. You don't need to control what some drunk dude thinks about you to feel fulfilled with yourself.

From a more practical perspective, I would advise you be careful with who you decide to engage with and share information with. Be very perceptive. If they don't make the effort to try and understand you, or don't even seem slightly open to it, don't even say anything. It doesn't matter. Why would you wanna engage with someone so immature? You have to have respect and standards for yourself. You should be like "Oh ok, this guy is assuming a bunch of random shit about me. I'll just laugh it off and try to disengage as much as possible". At the very least this is someone you make stupid jokes with while drunk, not talk about serious life perspectives, because what are they gonna offer there? Nothing, just their own bad perspective. Be resourceful and tactful in how you spend your energy and information. It's not worth pouring your heart out to some drunk dude that doesn't understand anything, this will actually make you more emotional and make you even more annoyed when they blatantly disregard what you're trying to say. You have to expect all of this as a possibility beforehand, that way you are prepared. If you try to prove yourself or engage with them, you will be pulled into their ego game which is them pushing their agenda and assumptions onto you. It's like that quote,  “Don't ever wrestle with a pig. You'll both get dirty but the pig will enjoy it.”

You really gotta understand that these people are STUPID, in the sense that they do not understand at all what you are going through and they do not really even care about what comes out of their mouth. You are doing yourself a disservice when you get affected so heavily by something like this. The proper action is to realize the guy doesn't even know what he's talking about and then not take it seriously. The guy probably forgot about that conversation by now. It's just not worth getting so invested in something like this.

The big problem is that you are taking what the guy is saying to you, and you are applying it to the full context of everything that has happened to you in your life. All your hardships. Everything. The guy that said it has ZERO of this context. In a sense, he isn't even talking about you, because he barely has any information about you. He just came up with some idea and assumption about you inside of his head and then spoke. Do you see why getting so emotionally involved is silly now? You're defending a version of you that doesn't even exist.

[Federico del pueblo]

 @Dear Fiona  Hey thanks for your insightful post!

It's inspiring to see how much change you were able to achieve in terms of your emotions and your relationship and that you reinvented yourself. Great job!

 @Eph75  Got it! Thanks for your guidance and recommendations!

@Osaid Thanks for your detailed answer! You made a lot of good points. I especially like that insight about how the other guy has literally no idea who I am, what my background is, what I'm dealing with and so on.

He is basically judging a mental image that he created, which he confuses with myself.

I reflected again and realized that most of my strong emotional reaction on that night was not primarily due to the guy himself. Imagine it more like this:

you've been working on something for a decade. The first years after getting I'll you just somehow manage to finish your academic studies. My entire masters degree I had to do while already being sick and not even knowing what I was sick with. Then after that I worked for some time as an engineer, basically just suffering from symptoms every day, but torturing myself because I had no idea what else to do.

Then I stopped working. The condition had already gotten drastically worse at this point, so I regret my former choices of just continuing and not stopping sooner.

Then several years of research about the illness, using that drastically reduced mental energy I still had (which was more suffering).

Then several years of taking specific action based on the new understanding, failed approaches, more research, more approaches that didn't work etc.

And now finally making some improvements (but rather slow and much more is still needed).

If then somebody like that dude comes along and judges me solely based on the most surface level fact that I'm not working then this is like some final drop that makes the barrel burst.

@QQQ Thank you man!

Much love for you!!!

[Federico del pueblo]

@KH2 You mean people that are bullies?

Well, whether or not some incident is nothing is so subjective to the individual.

Maybe a bunch of words, when they hit the right button, can be more hurtful then having someone spit in your face.

Or if you think about the threads in the dating section. Approaching a woman can be perceived to be so terrifying, but the same guy could not have any problems racing down some narrow trail in the woods with a bike, which is about 100x more dangerous than approaching a girl.

It's all in our mind.

 

 

 

[Osaid]

Quote

I reflected again and realized that most of my strong emotional reaction on that night was not primarily due to the guy himself.

Nice.

2 hours ago, Federico del pueblo said:

you've been working on something for a decade. The first years after getting I'll you just somehow manage to finish your academic studies. My entire masters degree I had to do while already being sick and not even knowing what I was sick with. Then after that I worked for some time as an engineer, basically just suffering from symptoms every day, but torturing myself because I had no idea what else to do.

Then I stopped working. The condition had already gotten drastically worse at this point, so I regret my former choices of just continuing and not stopping sooner.

Then several years of research about the illness, using that drastically reduced mental energy I still had (which was more suffering).

Then several years of taking specific action based on the new understanding, failed approaches, more research, more approaches that didn't work etc.

And now finally making some improvements (but rather slow and much more is still needed).

If then somebody like that dude comes along and judges me solely based on the most surface level fact that I'm not working then this is like some final drop that makes the barrel burst.

Yeah, I get it.

The main thing to realize here is that the other guy doesn't know any of this. If you pay attention, you can see yourself constructing this entire story in the moment and then getting pulled in emotionally. You can see yourself applying this entire story to what the guy said to you, and then getting emotional about it. You can actually learn to not do this, and let it go instead. You can get really good at it. Just make the decision to forfeit the emotional treachery you are about to pull yourself into. It's actually way easier and much more efficient to do this. You will feel a bunch of emotional pressure building up and then you'll be like "nope, not gonna even consider this seriously" and then all of that pressure will just instantly eviscerate, because you aren't pulling yourself into the ego's story anymore. It really is that simple and easy. Remember, your emotional well-being is always top priority, above all else. If you are at unease emotionally, it is because of some sort of resistance and misalignment with reality, so there is never a situation where being emotionally unwell will benefit you or make sense. If you deeply understand the importance of being emotionally well, whenever a situation arises that affects your emotions, it will instantly send alarms off and you will be like "woah, I need to let go of whatever story I'm thinking of right now which is causing this feeling in me". It will become natural to you.

In a sense, you kind of have to override your ego's desire to be "right" here. Being "right" means pulling yourself into a debate with the person, which is as we said is unsustainable and unproductive. Being "right" means being emotionally unwell. Overall it's just not smart. Being "right" means wrestling with the pig. What is truly right, is having enough respect for yourself to not engage with any of this nonsense.

2 hours ago, Federico del pueblo said:

Thanks for your detailed answer!

My pleasure.

2 hours ago, Federico del pueblo said:

He is basically judging a mental image that he created, which he confuses with myself.

Yep. This is a massive insight.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Osaid