Humiliated and descended to the lowest level a man can experience

[Federico del pueblo]

I don’t ask for a whole lot of advice on this forum ever. Usually I like to give advice and be supportive for everyone.

Tonight is different.  I've been humiliated.  

The situation in general:

A grown ass man with a masters degree in engineering is incapable of making a living for himself...due to a mysterious, not well understood chronic illness.

So the man is dependent on some kind of social benefit, to survive. 

Most people understand this, some don't. 

It's a challenge to try to build any kind of healthy self esteem based on these circumstances. 

So today was the wedding of my very best friend. 

Everything was fun and positive. 

Until I had one conversation with a family member of my best friend.

"Hey man...I was thinking about doing the same thing that you're doing...you know....just not work at all...maybe take advantage of some kind of social benefit and maybe just do some "black work" on top of that to have a great life without having to worry.

Wait, you should be very knowledgeable about that kind of stuff, what do you think???!!!?"

And more BS like that.

That is about as humiliating as it gets for a man.

Already having 0 status you get humiliated for your low level of status, but also you get accused of taking advantage of your state (for receiving benefits).

It actually doesn't matter if it's man or woman, but you know  that especially for a man it's a very strong low blow if somebody just takes a shit on your low level of status/achievements, especially if you know that you'd completely smoke this guy in a small glass pipe, under normal circumstances...

Bros and sis' ...just give me a bunch of positive words...I'm degraded...society has thrown me in a thrash can.

I've been working my ass off for year's trying to improve my fucked up situation, it's hard, it's complicated...

And then some asshole comes along and makes me feel like shit.

No idea what else to say.

Just help your good old Federico dude who's normally writing long ass posts to improve your own tough shit, because my honor has been completely taken away.

[Loba]

Dude... I fucking know, man.  I do, really, really.  I get it.  I am on disability due to having bipolar, heart issues and an autoimmune disease.  The bipolar is managed, but with the other issues, I am super weak and it is an ordeal just to have a normal day of activity.  It all started in my mid-20's and up until then I was doing well - pretty girl with a good sized friend group, my own place, and then I got struck with all of this all at once and I lost everything.

It was, and sometimes still is a blow to my self esteem because I'd like to contribute, to do more but I can't.  The best I can do, all I can do is focus on my spiritual development, shadow work and maybe do some creative things once in a while.  I do pay rent, I pay for food, I'm not a moocher.  I never have been.  I actually paid for my boyfriend for a while, in my late teens I housed and took care of a disabled man who needed support, and I have saved the asses of friends who needed a place to crash at the last minute, I've helped move people into better places of residency, I've rescued and saved the lives of animals - like, I've done good things for people, but when it comes to a world where accomplishment is key, these traits are ignored.

I'm quite used to it at this point, like, people will make assumptions about my situation and think that I'm just some bum, but the reality is I was stricken down with circumstances that are hard to manage.  I get so tired from my illness that I literally can hardly deal with a normal fucking day.  I hate it.  I feel like an old person while I'm in my mid-30's.  It threw away my ability to find love, to feel confident in myself, all of that.

My advice is just to ignore people who are trying to get services when they are well enough to work.  Don't let their scumbaggery get to you.  If you're sick, if you're having a hard time, it makes sense to be on some kind of support system.  People can't just be expected to go off somewhere and die once they are no longer fully able - what kind of world would we live in if we did that?  You're not less valuable than others, this is just how the world is set up.  And it sucks.

I would continue working on your spiritual stuff, if you're like me then you have all the time in the world to go deep, to process things, and really become as spiritually capable as you can be.  I have personally dedicated my life to it, and it has made me so much happier, I feel like life actually has some value - most days - some days I slide and you know, that's okay, too.  

I try to view my life as a blessing.  Even if it is hard.  I get the chance to develop mentally, emotionally and spiritually with all this time.  I get to process death before it hits me out of the blue, I actually have the time to come to understand it in a real way.

Try to count your blessings - but it is also okay to be pissed off, too.  Let that come and fully feel it.  Sometimes shit can suck and it's good to just be upfront about what you're dealing with and don't hold any of that back.  When I feel that way, I write it out and this helps me to clear my emotions and come to understand why I am feeling a certain way.  Try to see that this life could be your destiny, in that life is aligning things up for you so that you can really get the chance to understand yourself at a deep level.

There's something very profound that comes with sickness that most healthy people don't get the chance to see.  It forces you to look at yourself.  And that's a beautiful thing.  I wouldn't trade it for the world.

Hope this helps somewhat.

[Federico del pueblo]

@Loba  oh man....I actually feel ashamed that our first exchange on this forum was so negative and combative...

I still remember that I posted a bunch of negative bullshit directed at you in some thread of male/female dynamics and I basically became a triggered moron. 

Sorry for that, you know how it can work sometimes, our little egos get triggered etc.

Thanks for your kind words. I do what I can. I have to sleep now and will check in again tomorrow. 

And I agree,  we have to find purpose in these complicated situations and see what we can make out of them...it can be a blessing if we're willing to investigate. 

Other people are there to make us stronger, even if they are a bunch of insensitive bullies, it's their job to be a sparring partner for us.

And when they die with 85 years of age they won't understand not even 30% of the consciousness stuff that we're exploring right now....but let's not get all that cocky

We just do what we can and whish everybody else the best on their journey.

Best wishes!

[Loba]

@Federico del pueblo Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it, it's all water under the bridge.  To be completely honest, I was going through a process of bitterness with my situation that sometimes would leak out, especially when looking through some of the material on there because it hit some things that I wasn't being upfront with myself about - it was probably a takes two to tango situation where I was annoyed, maybe you picked up on it and got mutually frustrated as well.  I worked through the whole process a few months ago, maybe a little less where I just really took a good look at what those emotions were and if they were doing me any good.  I noticed my attitude was affecting people as well, on site and off site and so I improved it all across the board, but there's still work to be done.

That can happen.  It's hard to really communicate effectively over the internet as all we have to go off of is words and no histories into the people that we are dealing with.

Best wishes to you as well, sleep well dude!

[Recursoinominado]

Bro, you won't have any self-esteem using society standards.

What you need is a intense and abnormal amount of self-love and self-belief even if you seem delusional at first, fuck other people's opinion, nobody knows what you really have been through and nobody ever will.

That's the beauty of spiritual practies in my opinion: they transcend any "normal" objections like the need to have good motives to feel good and confident.

Realize you can literally feel like you wish, even if the whole world says otherwise.

Stand ALONE in your own power. Unshakable.

One way of doing it is to meditate deeply on success, and love, and hapiness, and God.

One-pointed concentratation for long stretches of time on the above objects until you feel those all the time.

Start to feel delusionally good without any apparent reason. 

[puporing]

Sorry to hear about that. It's really out of your control sometimes. I remember your thread about it recently.

You just gotta remind yourself daily that in God's eyes there's absolute equality, you're not lower or higher, but maybe closer to God. And that everything is here to help you (specifically to evolve spiritually), including the hardships. When you're ready, one day you'll realize the ignorance was there to help you expand your love. 

The majority of people are very cut off from God and fall into the game of hierarchy. It's just that right now it is like a force of gravity anytime you try to interact with someone. Maybe you can write about it, create art out of your repressed feelings and visions, let it be fuel to your evolution. : )

Edited September 25, 2022 by puporing

[ThePoint]

I feel ya bro. People just make bold assumptions on the outside because these mystery chronic illnesses are not visible from the outside. 

What did you respond with when that person told you what they told you? 

[Eph75]

3 hours ago, Federico del pueblo said:

That is about as humiliating as it gets for a man.

This maybe does not make any sense from where you are coming, but if that's as humiliating as it gets for a man, what's called for is to become "more than a man", meant in a very much so obtainable way. 

Without there being that, where this wouldn't have mattered, the only thing you can do is to shake it off and move on. 

And, maybe, if you're ready, work on how to transcend the definition of "man" where this is made into a problem, allowing for this to be just another piece of information fading away into the void. 

Meanwhile, remember, this is not about you.

Imagine what kind of suffering this involves for the person coming up with this, what to me seems like passive-aggressive behavior, and the suffering that person is enduring around you manifesting in their mind.

Must be horrible for them.

And isn't it interesting that you hold a certain importance to them for them to make space in their thoughts, wasting their energy away while dearly holding on to you in their mind. 

That's magnificent. 

Edited September 25, 2022 by Eph75

[Raze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbb_0qNdjjo

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD1ny_Q8sKo

 

[NoSelfSelf]

All this post is based upon someone elses standards that you try to match to, like if im not this im basically useless, you have your reasons to be where you are at and they dont have to understand, if that really bothers you just say i dont wanna talk about it stay out of my business...

Its a deeper issue i know but its like from your pov if those people are not enlightened or in process or getting enlightened they are the worst failiures ever...

Edited September 25, 2022 by NoSelfSelf

[LSD-Rumi]

Don't care about what people say about you when you are all weak and down. This means nothing, you know you are far better than this. Focus on getting out of the rut. 

For me, If I didn't have a family I will be literally on the streets now, tho I have a very respectful college degree. It is just I cannot handle anything right now. But I know it is just a phase that I must go through and there is light at the end.

Edited September 25, 2022 by LSD-Rumi

[Ulax]

@Federico del pueblo Brother I feel sympathetic. I want to try and help meet your need for respect. I will try to do this by guessing at what happened in the situation. So as to try and provide you with an understanding of the situation.

The way I see the situation, which can only be a guess, is the following:

This other man is living a life where he finds himself wanting a greater sense of ease in his life, and he is looking for some support and understanding in terms of doing so. Maybe too he feels that he isn't significant just as he is, and so he meets his need for significance by thinking his guesses about other people's situations are actually the reality of their situations. Hence, he makes a guess in his mind about what your situation is, and meets his need to feel significant by treating his guess as being true. So he translates his guess that you are taking advantage of the social system into a truth.

He then realises that if he could take advantage of the social system in the way he thinks you do, then he could meet his need for understanding regarding how to be at greater ease in his life. Further, he may see you as a useful source of support in doing so. So, to meet this need for understanding and support he asks you the question about how you take advantage of the social system.

So, from his side, it may well have been that he was simply trying to meet his needs for significance, ease, support and understanding. To me it follows that what he said wasn't really a result of who you are, instead it was a result of him trying to meet his needs in a way in a way that put him out of touch with the reality of the situation. Also, even if I am mistaken in my guess, I still think its nevertheless true that whatever he was doing was simply a way, based on his life experience and genetics, he was trying to meet his needs in life. Hence, whatever he said wasn't a result of who you are.

Moving on to your perspective of the situation. From what it sounds like to me, you interpreted his communications in a way that led to you feeling humiliated because you felt disrespected and misunderstood. My guess being that in your culture, people learn that those who are seen to be taking advantage of the social system should be condemned and treated as lesser people than other citizens. So, to be mistakenly equated with people taking advantage is interpreted as meaning you now are vulnerable to being seen as a lesser person and vulnerable to condemnation. Does that sound accurate to you?

I don't know you on a close level personally. However, I see you posting frequently on the forum and I tend to notice what I see to be traits of determination, perseverance and open minded in many of them. And I want to communicate that I respect that and has helped me to meet my need for inspiration and hope before. So, you have been significant in helping me live a better life before, and I personally value your presence on this forum.

[universe]

I'd advice you welcome those feelings of humiliation and feeling like shit. Become at peace with your situation. Accept and let go.

If you constantly repress feelings they tend to get stronger and people will push on them in order to trigger you.

 

Then when you are at peace with it all these kind of converssations wouldn't trigger you at all.

You could answer something like "Yes, I think you would be a perfect fit for my coaching program where I teach others how to not have to work a single day in their life again!" and then everytime you see them you pitch it to them again. Then at the end of the wedding ask for their phone number and be very persistent with reminding them of how shitty they feel, working every day. And what they could accomplish with your coaching, how their life could look like. With just a 4.000$ investment into your coaching. Until they block you on their phone  

[Sincerity]

So sorry dude.

Please be proud of yourself that you've made it this far. You deserve it.

Everything is going to be okay in the end. You probably don't see it but at least have faith.

It ALWAYS gets better eventually.

[ThePoint]

4 hours ago, LSD-Rumi said:

tho I have a very respectful college degree.

What is your college degree @LSD-Rumi?

[ThePoint]

3 hours ago, Ulax said:

@Federico del pueblo Brother I feel sympathetic. I want to try and help meet your need for respect. I will try to do this by guessing at what happened in the situation. So as to try and provide you with an understanding of the situation.

The way I see the situation, which can only be a guess, is the following:

This other man is living a life where he finds himself wanting a greater sense of ease in his life, and he is looking for some support and understanding in terms of doing so. Maybe too he feels that he isn't significant just as he is, and so he meets his need for significance by thinking his guesses about other people's situations are actually the reality of their situations. Hence, he makes a guess in his mind about what your situation is, and meets his need to feel significant by treating his guess as being true. So he translates his guess that you are taking advantage of the social system into a truth.

He then realises that if he could take advantage of the social system in the way he thinks you do, then he could meet his need for understanding regarding how to be at greater ease in his life. Further, he may see you as a useful source of support in doing so. So, to meet this need for understanding and support he asks you the question about how you take advantage of the social system.

So, from his side, it may well have been that he was simply trying to meet his needs for significance, ease, support and understanding. To me it follows that what he said wasn't really a result of who you are, instead it was a result of him trying to meet his needs in a way in a way that put him out of touch with the reality of the situation. Also, even if I am mistaken in my guess, I still think its nevertheless true that whatever he was doing was simply a way, based on his life experience and genetics, he was trying to meet his needs in life. Hence, whatever he said wasn't a result of who you are.

Moving on to your perspective of the situation. From what it sounds like to me, you interpreted his communications in a way that led to you feeling humiliated because you felt disrespected and misunderstood. My guess being that in your culture, people learn that those who are seen to be taking advantage of the social system should be condemned and treated as lesser people than other citizens. So, to be mistakenly equated with people taking advantage is interpreted as meaning you now are vulnerable to being seen as a lesser person and vulnerable to condemnation. Does that sound accurate to you?

I don't know you on a close level personally. However, I see you posting frequently on the forum and I tend to notice what I see to be traits of determination, perseverance and open minded in many of them. And I want to communicate that I respect that and has helped me to meet my need for inspiration and hope before. So, you have been significant in helping me live a better life before, and I personally value your presence on this forum.

@Ulax This is top tier dude. Thanks for sharing. 

At the root of this issue I think that @Federico del pueblo, like many of us and myself, still care about what others think to a degree. 

How can we stop caring what others think of us, @Ulax?

[Ulax]

2 minutes ago, ThePoint said:

@Ulax This is top tier dude. Thanks for sharing. 

At the root of this issue I think that @Federico del pueblo, like many of us and myself, still care about what others think to a degree. 

How can we stop caring what others think of us, @Ulax?

Hey @ThePoint, thank you. And you're welcome.

My current understanding is that I think we can stop caring so much what other think of us by doing the following. Identifying what need/ needs the strategy of caring what other people think of us is trying to meet. For example, maybe safety or the need to belong. Then try to meet that need/ needs. I'll note that I am feeling confused because I want more understanding of how exactly to meet your own needs reliably.

I personally think depth psychotherapy can be useful. Further, I've been finding value in Thais Gibson's free YouTube videos so far. 

 I'm also aware that someone with that coping strategy might actually be in an environment where its a useful coping strategy in many ways. Hence, meeting the relevant need might require a real world change, i.e. leaving abusive household.

[hyruga]

Everyone has been humiliated before. Even Owen Cook also mentioned that he has been humiliated by other guys when he first started gaming.

[Federico del pueblo]

10 hours ago, Recursoinominado said:

Bro, you won't have any self-esteem using society standards.

Sure. The hard part for me is to "not use" (i.e. not give a damn about) society's standards. That requires work for me.

10 hours ago, Recursoinominado said:

What you need is a intense and abnormal amount of self-love and self-belief even if you seem delusional at first, fuck other people's opinion, nobody knows what you really have been through and nobody ever will.

Yep. Good advice!

10 hours ago, Recursoinominado said:

Realize you can literally feel like you wish, even if the whole world says otherwise.

Stand ALONE in your own power. Unshakable.

One way of doing it is to meditate deeply on success, and love, and hapiness, and God.

One-pointed concentratation for long stretches of time on the above objects until you feel those all the time.

Start to feel delusionally good without any apparent reason. 

I'll do my best Thanks man!

 

10 hours ago, Medhansh said:

am in the same position in my life. My Bachelor's will be over in the next year and a half, and then I will have to crack one or the other exams to get into a good Master's program. If I fail, I will be pretty much unemployed. India doesn't really have many benefits for jobless/homeless people. They're pretty much left on their own. 

Sorry to hear that. I hope things work out well for you!

 

10 hours ago, Medhansh said:

So yeah, it's not good. But the good news is, there is very likely a cure for your ailment. Out of the hundreds of thousands of people that suffer/suffered from it, at least a few thousand must have been cured. We want those few thousand people. Find out how did they do it. Research is super easy with the internet. Use this tool to your full disposal. Recommended sites-

1. Reddit- The God for research and discussion
2. Inspire.com - This website is specifically for people suffering from ailments. Like a forum, but only for diseases and curing. Wonderful resource.
3. Youtube- Of course, but what channels? I would look into Dr. Andrew Huberman's podcasts regarding fatigue. 
4. Google Scholar- For research papers on your condition. But what you will find after reading a dozen research papers is that they're useless. Surprising as it may sound, reddit and other resources where people list their direct experiences are far better than research papers published by observing 50 people for 3 months under controlled conditions. But it is necessary for you to go through them in order to outgrow them. So read through a dozen of them quickly.

Oh thanks man! That's a lot of useful advice!

Fortunately I think I'm already (finally) healing. It took me years to even get correctly diagnosed because my version of the health condition is kind of atypical, which made it tricky.

And it took me some more years to find out what actually needs to happen in order to recover. Apparently it's also taking me yet another view years to recover by applying all the right strategies. So we're looking at an entire decade from mid-twenties to mid-thirties, which is kind of frustrating because that's usually such a good age to live life to the fullest. Anyway there's no way around continuing the work and eventually recover. I'll make it or die trying

10 hours ago, Medhansh said:

Bonus tip: If you're really, really serious about curing your ailment from the root and forever, I recommend to you an Ayurvedacharya- Nityanandam Shree. I have spoken about him a couple of times to people in PMs and stuff. But you will face an issue- most of his videos are in Hindi. Language barrier. But I am telling you, if there's anyone who can cure your disease from its roots, it's this guy. He will start seeing patients in October, and I have already booked my appointment. 

Don't worry though, I can translate his videos for you. He has 2 channels- Nityanandam Shree and Nityanandam Ayurveda. Both are equally good and important. We can come into contact through whatsapp, telegram, etc. and I can send you voice recordings in which I have translated his videos from Hindi to English. You can send me the videos you want to see, and then I'll translate them for you. It's the least I can do for you. Are his videos really that worth a hassle? Of-fucking-course. That's why I proposed to do it in the first place. 

Oh wow, that's a lot of interesting stuff.

I think for now I want to continue with my current approach because I've already investigated so deeply into the topic and things are getting better (even if it's a bit slow).

I'm also of the belief that my condition at the most fundamental level was caused and perpetuated by trauma, that seems quite obvious when I look at when the condition started (and how) and the emotional baggage that I've dealt with.

So I'm working through all of that.

These social anxieties around how people perceive of my situation are also a part of the puzzle, because this creates stress that contributes the root dysfunction of my nervous system...so everything needs to be released.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions bro, I hope you'll also find the solutions for your struggles, that would be awesome! 

Keep grinding ??

[gettoefl]

you have to get high on your own supply, be you to the full (beautiful), be laser focused on the finish line

and then no bastard can get you down.

whether today is an outstanding day or not is in no one else's hands but your own

Edited September 25, 2022 by gettoefl