Iranian police killed a 22 years old girl for her hijab

[mamad]

Her name was Mahsa Amini

Now we are protesting for a week and police are killing us

My parents asked me to not join the protest because lots of people are dying by iranian police(30 people untill now) but I cant stop going out and protesting

We are angry

 

What would you do

Would you risk your life or would stay safe and put up with injustice 

[Leo Gura]

Tough situation.

No sense in getting yourself killed over this.

Godspeed.

Edited September 24, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Bojan V]

@mamad I don't know what to do, but please stay safe??.

[integral]

Make YouTube videos that go viral and are informative.

Use the pen not the sword

Edited September 24, 2022 by integral

[mamad]

 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Tough situation.

No sense in getting yourself killed over this.

Godspeed.

Doesn't making changes in society(dectatorial society like Iran) require some sacrifices?

[Ulax]

@mamad Imo, unless you're remarkably strategic in what you do, whether you protest or not will make no difference.

[LSD-Rumi]

3 hours ago, mamad said:

Would you risk your life or would stay safe and put up with injustice 

If you are worth more than risking dying in a protest, don't go.

[DreamScape]

1 hour ago, mamad said:

Doesn't making changes in society(dectatorial society like Iran) require some sacrifices?

a protest is small, never is the cause of change. It can lead you to it though. 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, mamad said:

Doesn't making changes in society(dectatorial society like Iran) require some sacrifices?

Yes, but if you're gonna take on the government you gotta do it very wisely and strategically, otherwise you'll just get your ass kicked and nothing accomplished.

[mamad]

3 hours ago, integral said:

Make YouTube videos that go viral and are informative.

Use the pen not the sword

 

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, but if you're gonna take on the government you gotta do it very wisely and strategically, otherwise you'll just get your ass kicked and nothing accomplished.

I agree

But its hard to watch these and not taking action

 

 

4_5872950710185758352.mp4

[mamad]

7 minutes ago, mamad said:

 

I agree

But its hard to watch these and not taking action

 

 

4_5872950710185758352.mp4

 

[Fleetinglife]

You should ask yourself very self-reflectively, clearly and realistically to yourself here and then proceed honestly answer to yourself and with yourself what is your end-goal and aim here, no matter how noble, compassionate, brave, beautiful and conscious they might be in the present moment and the ideal, with it's realistic goals and the possiblity of their achievements in the near future with these protests and if you have any realistically achieveable and possible any to force the government to repeal the compulsory hijab wearing religious observation law or you actually engaging in attacking the very foundations of the Iranian state-regime and it's corresponding theocracy and theocratic system.

I would advise you not to do the latter since you will be most likely be immediately be proceeded to be stigmatised and discredited as a legitimate protest movement at all and as a whole of being smeared and branded as seeking opportunistically to grab and snatch deliberately state levers of power, and seeking to be a government and society destabilizing Western funded or influenced fifth column colour revolutionaries or color revolutionary front for Western-backed overthrowing of Iran's current regime or another Western astroturfed regime change operation in Iran and against the current Iranian government as a whole at the behest of their rivals and adversaries in Western nations who want to see them replaced with more obedient, servile, dependent and beneficiary government to them will just lead to it to be even more, even as genuine just moderate reformist movement for more gender equality, most likely to be used as an excuse to be brutally suppressed, repressed and prosecuted afterwards as a national security and order stability threat on the basis of those false exaggerated, pumped up and downright manufactured or made up quick alarmist pretexts.

If you approach this at a more incrementalist and gradualist approach by forcing your legislature to vote to repeal that law through creative online means (organized movement petitions or on platforms that are still available, and not censored or taken down by the regime, and followed in Iran by a lot of younger generations and people of course) and open public and social political activism to create constant creative and flexible pressure, obstructive action and mass appeal campaigns just for this one law to be taken down by legal mechanisms in your still existing republican institutions, while not endangering the very foundations, mechanisms of government and continuing survival of the theocratic regime because of this in the Iranian state and society i.e. not advocating or attempting a full-on maximalistic position of revolutionary overthrowing just completely the current theocratic regime system and regime changing it, because you actually might just succeed in repealing some of these laws eventually hopefully sooner rather than later by just using these separation of powers legal mechanisms that are still given to you and that you have at your disposal still in your current state at least in theory currently. 

Do you have any current political parties in the Islamic Republic Parliament who are more reformist and reform oriented in approach to gradually strip down some most austere measures of theocratic laws in your current Iranian politics or propose an amendment or change to the Constitution of just this one clause or law impacting and changing the seveerity and austerness of the unequivocal need in public spaces in all cases of mandatory maintenance of this hijab religious observance law if it is baked within the Constitution and if it's a more important clauses as being a foundational element of an Islamist Republic or state which Iran claims to be, that you know of by chance? For example just advocating more equality for women in Iranian society under the auspices of some slightly reformist, progressive but still pro-Islamist party (in terms of maintaining still an Islamic Republic with it's corresponding institutions in accordance with your current countries constitution and founding constitutional order). 

And as I said the only thing that I will advise you against is approaching this to get full-on maximalistic theocratic system, state and regime change demand at this very moment by seeking any foreign aid or assistance or attempting to cause a severee stir or total state, social or economic paralysis in order to get the regime to respond aggressively or brutally so you can maybe call enough for some maybe possible joint US, Israel and Saudi on humanitarian excuses military intervention through atrocity propaganda, and you don't want to surely go the way of that road to cause your people to be deliberately martyred (that's what the cleric authoritarian have done and ocassionally continue to do and their lack of concern for the cost and value of each individual human life other than as a collective tribute and of course the exclusive concern for the narrow, selfish and hypocritical safety of their own one and their families and close relatives and clans own one) in order for the brutalities, horrors and abuses to appear so bad on the Western and international media lense for their to be an active international movement drumming up for foreign military or international peacekeeper military involvement, rolling and fired up to demand a humanitarian type joint US Mid East allies military intervention in the country to overthrow and replace the regime that does these horrible abuses to it's people and their basic human rights. 

Hope I didn't sound too confusing and that you can read and understand this text with clarity, that sorry I wrote in hurry over the phone so once again I am sorry if it's too confusing or filled with some or a lot here and there semi-confusing grammar errors. I hope it's clear, clarifying enough for you and that you can read and understand clearly what I aimed to say, communicate with you and advise you on this problem and the possible approaches to it's solving. 

Godspeed as well I hope you succeed in some of your demands in change of the rigid, strict or inflexible religious hijab observance laws to be more moderate, realistic, less gender segregationistic and discriminatory and more optional as an individual choice in public spaces by using creative, obstructionist and reformist means to somehow with the current republican institutions that you have at your disposal enact some legal changes and hopefully create gradually some reformist movement that you can turn into a popular front and younger generation reformist political party that might if it uses the momentum and energy of this protest movement win enough votes, representation and power in your government and it's existing legislature might get some of your most urgent demands and law reforms passed through as a first big step and move sooner rather than later, perhaps and work on gradually towards more bigger and comprehensive goals and tasks of even deeper and wider systemic change reflecting more and more the voices and values shared by a new younger generation later? 

If this at all seems like a possible solution and option in this point in time for your future politics from your direct living experience there and that I hope I am not offending you and/or sound like I am gaslighting you or trying to neuter your energy and will for change by suggesting this more patient, incremental and gradual reformist approach if it at all seems like a viable option at this point of time to gain any advantage, results and benefit from these protests and your shown bravery, courage and selfless sacrifice, compassion and solidarity for others at them in a tangible small gradual political change and concessions way hopefully to not give further excuses and opportunitistic justifications for the repressive and oppressive apparatus of the state-regime to further repress you, disempower, censor you and have more power and control over you than before by their using of their convenient propaganda tools at their disposal to dismiss the legitimacy of your protests and demands paint this opportunitistically and conveniently for them and their own continued unobstructed and unreformed maintenance by painting it as an outside interference caused foreign influencing and meddling crisis, and not as result of your organically and spontaneously generated, domestic national movement of seeking justice and more equality for your and all Iranian women in your society, in it's laws and in it's current government and state . 

Godspeed once again to you all and your brave, defiant and heroic women, you don't have to respond to this long response of mine if you don't want to. My aim was just that I wanted to quickly as possible  in my post offer you some of my perspectives on this, potential suggestion and advice from across the Sea and desert in hope that they might have at least some theoretical worth and value to you and that they can be used as such to be helpful to you in this regard for getting closer to the answer of finally solving and resolving this problem for yourself, your women and the wider community there.

Once again God bless you all, and hopefully I wish for you to all stay safe, good and secure and get some of your social changes demands eventually, sooner rather than later ??

Cheers and Support from Serbia, to you, your women fighting for their basic rights in public and for the all of you there who want to see real, progressive and more conscious changes and changes in your vast, culturally rich, different and beautiful culture and civilization-society based on mutual equality of all based on their innate characteristics and sometimes simply vast different cultural, social life-held conditions and background programmings ??

Edited September 24, 2022 by Fleetinglife

[mr_engineer]

If the police are killing you for protesting, and they're setting a precedent by killing a 22-year-old girl, and then if you protest, I'm sorry but you are playing right into their hands. You'll simply be next in line. 

To directly retaliate would be strategically suboptimal. 

If your parents are telling you to not join the protest, and you still feel the urge to go out and protest, I think you should bring this up with your parents and ask them why they're telling you to not join. And what they think will be the way out of this. 

I'm not saying they will have the answer. But, when they tell you how the system works and what the light at the end of the tunnel is supposed to be, you will get a clearer idea of how the system works. And what the loopholes are. Then, you can hopefully devise a better strategy to deal with this situation! 

HTH!!

Edit - This point about talking to your parents is actually very important. Because, if your parents saw no other way out of this situation, they would be on the streets with you. The fact that they're stopping you, means that their experienced judgement is making them hope for something better down the line. Now, whether that hope is true or false, that's your call, when you put on their lens to make sense of the situation. 

Edited September 24, 2022 by mr_engineer

[How to be wise]

@mamad George Floyd 2.0

[mamad]

12 hours ago, Fleetinglife said:

You should ask yourself very self-reflectively, clearly and realistically to yourself here and then proceed honestly answer to yourself and with yourself what is your end-goal and aim here, no matter how noble, compassionate, brave, beautiful and conscious they might be in the present moment and the ideal, with it's realistic goals and the possiblity of their achievements in the near future with these protests and if you have any realistically achieveable and possible any to force the government to repeal the compulsory hijab wearing religious observation law or you actually engaging in attacking the very foundations of the Iranian state-regime and it's corresponding theocracy and theocratic system.

I would advise you not to do the latter since you will be most likely be immediately be proceeded to be stigmatised and discredited as a legitimate protest movement at all and as a whole of being smeared and branded as seeking opportunistically to grab and snatch deliberately state levers of power, and seeking to be a government and society destabilizing Western funded or influenced fifth column colour revolutionaries or color revolutionary front for Western-backed overthrowing of Iran's current regime or another Western astroturfed regime change operation in Iran and against the current Iranian government as a whole at the behest of their rivals and adversaries in Western nations who want to see them replaced with more obedient, servile, dependent and beneficiary government to them will just lead to it to be even more, even as genuine just moderate reformist movement for more gender equality, most likely to be used as an excuse to be brutally suppressed, repressed and prosecuted afterwards as a national security and order stability threat on the basis of those false exaggerated, pumped up and downright manufactured or made up quick alarmist pretexts.

If you approach this at a more incrementalist and gradualist approach by forcing your legislature to vote to repeal that law through creative online means (organized movement petitions or on platforms that are still available, and not censored or taken down by the regime, and followed in Iran by a lot of younger generations and people of course) and open public and social political activism to create constant creative and flexible pressure, obstructive action and mass appeal campaigns just for this one law to be taken down by legal mechanisms in your still existing republican institutions, while not endangering the very foundations, mechanisms of government and continuing survival of the theocratic regime because of this in the Iranian state and society i.e. not advocating or attempting a full-on maximalistic position of revolutionary overthrowing just completely the current theocratic regime system and regime changing it, because you actually might just succeed in repealing some of these laws eventually hopefully sooner rather than later by just using these separation of powers legal mechanisms that are still given to you and that you have at your disposal still in your current state at least in theory currently. 

Do you have any current political parties in the Islamic Republic Parliament who are more reformist and reform oriented in approach to gradually strip down some most austere measures of theocratic laws in your current Iranian politics or propose an amendment or change to the Constitution of just this one clause or law impacting and changing the seveerity and austerness of the unequivocal need in public spaces in all cases of mandatory maintenance of this hijab religious observance law if it is baked within the Constitution and if it's a more important clauses as being a foundational element of an Islamist Republic or state which Iran claims to be, that you know of by chance? For example just advocating more equality for women in Iranian society under the auspices of some slightly reformist, progressive but still pro-Islamist party (in terms of maintaining still an Islamic Republic with it's corresponding institutions in accordance with your current countries constitution and founding constitutional order). 

And as I said the only thing that I will advise you against is approaching this to get full-on maximalistic theocratic system, state and regime change demand at this very moment by seeking any foreign aid or assistance or attempting to cause a severee stir or total state, social or economic paralysis in order to get the regime to respond aggressively or brutally so you can maybe call enough for some maybe possible joint US, Israel and Saudi on humanitarian excuses military intervention through atrocity propaganda, and you don't want to surely go the way of that road to cause your people to be deliberately martyred (that's what the cleric authoritarian have done and ocassionally continue to do and their lack of concern for the cost and value of each individual human life other than as a collective tribute and of course the exclusive concern for the narrow, selfish and hypocritical safety of their own one and their families and close relatives and clans own one) in order for the brutalities, horrors and abuses to appear so bad on the Western and international media lense for their to be an active international movement drumming up for foreign military or international peacekeeper military involvement, rolling and fired up to demand a humanitarian type joint US Mid East allies military intervention in the country to overthrow and replace the regime that does these horrible abuses to it's people and their basic human rights. 

Hope I didn't sound too confusing and that you can read and understand this text with clarity, that sorry I wrote in hurry over the phone so once again I am sorry if it's too confusing or filled with some or a lot here and there semi-confusing grammar errors. I hope it's clear, clarifying enough for you and that you can read and understand clearly what I aimed to say, communicate with you and advise you on this problem and the possible approaches to it's solving. 

Godspeed as well I hope you succeed in some of your demands in change of the rigid, strict or inflexible religious hijab observance laws to be more moderate, realistic, less gender segregationistic and discriminatory and more optional as an individual choice in public spaces by using creative, obstructionist and reformist means to somehow with the current republican institutions that you have at your disposal enact some legal changes and hopefully create gradually some reformist movement that you can turn into a popular front and younger generation reformist political party that might if it uses the momentum and energy of this protest movement win enough votes, representation and power in your government and it's existing legislature might get some of your most urgent demands and law reforms passed through as a first big step and move sooner rather than later, perhaps and work on gradually towards more bigger and comprehensive goals and tasks of even deeper and wider systemic change reflecting more and more the voices and values shared by a new younger generation later? 

If this at all seems like a possible solution and option in this point in time for your future politics from your direct living experience there and that I hope I am not offending you and/or sound like I am gaslighting you or trying to neuter your energy and will for change by suggesting this more patient, incremental and gradual reformist approach if it at all seems like a viable option at this point of time to gain any advantage, results and benefit from these protests and your shown bravery, courage and selfless sacrifice, compassion and solidarity for others at them in a tangible small gradual political change and concessions way hopefully to not give further excuses and opportunitistic justifications for the repressive and oppressive apparatus of the state-regime to further repress you, disempower, censor you and have more power and control over you than before by their using of their convenient propaganda tools at their disposal to dismiss the legitimacy of your protests and demands paint this opportunitistically and conveniently for them and their own continued unobstructed and unreformed maintenance by painting it as an outside interference caused foreign influencing and meddling crisis, and not as result of your organically and spontaneously generated, domestic national movement of seeking justice and more equality for your and all Iranian women in your society, in it's laws and in it's current government and state . 

Godspeed once again to you all and your brave, defiant and heroic women, you don't have to respond to this long response of mine if you don't want to. My aim was just that I wanted to quickly as possible  in my post offer you some of my perspectives on this, potential suggestion and advice from across the Sea and desert in hope that they might have at least some theoretical worth and value to you and that they can be used as such to be helpful to you in this regard for getting closer to the answer of finally solving and resolving this problem for yourself, your women and the wider community there.

Once again God bless you all, and hopefully I wish for you to all stay safe, good and secure and get some of your social changes demands eventually, sooner rather than later ??

Cheers and Support from Serbia, to you, your women fighting for their basic rights in public and for the all of you there who want to see real, progressive and more conscious changes and changes in your vast, culturally rich, different and beautiful culture and civilization-society based on mutual equality of all based on their innate characteristics and sometimes simply vast different cultural, social life-held conditions and background programmings ??

13 hours ago, mamad said:

 

Thank you for your wisdom

I feel your empathy through your text

[mamad]

12 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

If the police are killing you for protesting, and they're setting a precedent by killing a 22-year-old girl, and then if you protest, I'm sorry but you are playing right into their hands. You'll simply be next in line. 

To directly retaliate would be strategically suboptimal. 

If your parents are telling you to not join the protest, and you still feel the urge to go out and protest, I think you should bring this up with your parents and ask them why they're telling you to not join. And what they think will be the way out of this. 

I'm not saying they will have the answer. But, when they tell you how the system works and what the light at the end of the tunnel is supposed to be, you will get a clearer idea of how the system works. And what the loopholes are. Then, you can hopefully devise a better strategy to deal with this situation! 

HTH!!

Edit - This point about talking to your parents is actually very important. Because, if your parents saw no other way out of this situation, they would be on the streets with you. The fact that they're stopping you, means that their experienced judgement is making them hope for something better down the line. Now, whether that hope is true or false, that's your call, when you put on their lens to make sense of the situation. 

My parents's concern is my survival 

[mr_engineer]

2 hours ago, mamad said:

My parents's concern is my survival 

What is their rationalization/excuse for how things will get better? What have they been told by the authorities of their time? 

[StarStruck]

I´m really for the Iranian cause but what I don´t get is Iranians that are naive. If powerful western countries want to help you, they don´t want to help you out of their goodness of their heart. They want to help you like they helped Mullah, Gaddafi, Saddam to power and then turn their respective countries to shit, one by one. Iranians shouldn´t want to get advantage of. Iran might be a hellhole but it can get much worse. Just look at Syria, Iraq, Libya and so on.

[LSD-Rumi]

Watched the news now on TV. Millions of  Iranian people started rioting against those who were rioting for the girl, calling it a western sneaky agenda to create unrest in Iran, looool.  This country is doomed for at least a hundred years.@mamad Dude don't waste your life on such country, make your purpose to get out.

[mamad]

16 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

Watched the news now on TV. Millions of  Iranian people started rioting against those who were rioting for the girl, calling it a western sneaky agenda to create unrest in Iran, looool.  This country is doomed for at least a hundred years.@mamad Dude don't waste your life on such country, make your purpose to get out.

Most of those pictures and scenes are fake and are for years ago

70-80% of iranian are not like that. They are against current regime

But you are right

we cant reach an appropriate result until we are one solid voice

This country is doomed by blue ideologies and corruption