Do poor and middle class people really need more welfare from the government?

[Hardkill]

I know this is going to sound like a lot like what a right-winger would say, but I've recently been pondering more about how I would ever be able to become successful at something like creating a thriving business, being some kind of popular social media figure, or accomplishing something that would really help change the world for the better. Many successful people out there who have given all kinds of advice on how succeed at something have made statements like:

"If you want to become truly successful at something, then it's up to you to make that happen."

"you gotta take full ownership of everything you do. Stop playing the victim and feeling sorry for yourself. You are responsible for your own happiness and your own success." 

"It doesn't matter what your race/ethnicity, gender, or background is. There are tons examples of men and women of different races/ethnicities from all kinds of different backgrounds who were able to pull themselves up from their own bootstraps and do what many people thought was impossible."

"If you don't have a job, then blame yourself."

"Stop waiting for the President of the United States or some other politician to come and save you or give you any success."

"You gotta face adversity on your own if you want to become strong and independent."

"No one is going to hand anything you want on a silver platter."

 

Obviously, a society needs a government, especially in this day and age, in order to: maintain law and order (including the enforcement of all kinds of regulations), provide a military that can protect it's citizens from foreign enemies, provide firefighters, provide skilled statesmen and diplomats, departments for defense, provide intelligence agencies, provide criminal justice departments, provide central banks and departments for treasury, collect taxes, provide teams of highly qualified economists and administrators of businesses, provide departments for commerce, provide departments for labor, provide Interior departments, provide an agency that protects and conserves the environment, provide an agency that regulates workplace safety and health, provide numerous other kinds of government officials, help save an economy during a recession or financial crisis, manage inflation, provide funding for all kinds of government operations and public/private infrastructure projects, provide public education, provide basic social security and healthcare insurance for the elderly and children, provide aide for all military veterans, provide necessary aide for all kinds of agriculture around the country around the provide aide for those who are mentally ill or traumatized, provide aid for people who are homeless and starving, provide health and human service departments, provide energy departments, etc.

But do working and middle class people who are not homeless and are functional enough need any more subsidies or any more welfare of any kind from the government? 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Hardkill

[Ulax]

Because they're not all true. They are true in that its an effective strategy to take responsibility for the circumstances and direction of your life. However, they are false in claiming that your circumstance is your fault.

If you want to get better at business go to a business mentor. If you want to understand why people don't have jobs, speak to a sociologist.

[DieFree]

People need to take personal responsibility, yes, but the government should use its immense resources to create opportunity as well. If the government isn't there to help create opportunity, what are they good for? just some police and courts? 

[Hardkill]

32 minutes ago, Ulax said:

Because they're not all true. They are true in that its an effective strategy to take responsibility for the circumstances and direction of your life. However, they are false in claiming that your circumstance is your fault.

If you want to get better at business go to a business mentor. If you want to understand why people don't have jobs, speak to a sociologist.

 

28 minutes ago, DieFree said:

People need to take personal responsibility, yes, but the government should use its immense resources to create opportunity as well. If the government isn't there to help create opportunity, what are they good for? just some police and courts? 

Okay, I just edited my post on this thread. I now added a lot more to the list of reasons as to why any government is essential including giving much needed financial support, healthcare subsidies, and other kinds of needed insurance for those who are really in need of it . 

Also, I really do believe that the US government still has a lot more work to do to reduce the amount of corruption and the unjust growing economic inequality that's still going on in America.

Though, I am wondering if it is truly possible for any working or middle class person who is not homeless and has a normal functioning mind to get whatever they need or want without any help from the government.

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Hardkill

[Ulax]

2 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Though, I am wondering if it is truly possible for any working or middle class person who is not homeless and has a normal functioning mind to get whatever they need or want without any help from the government.

 

I don't think its possible to get whatever they need/ want w/o help from the government. Who organises the financing of public roads? Makes sure that building codes are abided by so that their house doesn't collapse on them? Makes sure that they are safe from would be criminals? Educates the labour force? 

[Hardkill]

5 minutes ago, Ulax said:

I don't think its possible to get whatever they need/ want w/o help from the government. Who organises the financing of public roads? Makes sure that building codes are abided by so that their house doesn't collapse on them? Makes sure that they are safe from would be criminals? Educates the labour force? 

I agree. That's why I actually did include all of those things in my edit of my OP.

But could for instance any normal individual who currently doesn't have any healthcare insurance eventually get one without the government providing it, if that person worked hard enough to achieve it on their own?

[DieFree]

26 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

I agree. That's why I actually did include all of those things in my edit of my OP.

But could for instance any normal individual who currently doesn't have any healthcare insurance eventually get one without the government providing it, if that person worked hard enough to achieve it on their own?

There is a spectrum on how directly people rely on the government. People living in public housing and receiving food stamps and Medicare are one end of the spectrum, while survivalists living in the Montana mountains eating deer and self-healing using herbs found in the wild are on the other side.

Most Americans fall in the middle. The government isn't as direct and obvious presence in their lives as people in public housing, but the hidden hand of government supports them in many aspects --- many private industries rely on some form of government subsidy, many employer provided benefits take advantage of government tax breaks, many lucrative companies use technologies originally developed by the government using public tax dollars.  

The conservative in [insert flyover red state here] lives in a McMansion in the suburbs, drives to their 9-5 job and thinks they're self-made while neglecting the fact that their state receives more in federal subsidies than it pays in taxes and their employer likely relies on some form of government contracts, or government-created legal structures that benefit the existence of their industry. 

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by DieFree

[Ulax]

2 hours ago, Hardkill said:

But could for instance any normal individual who currently doesn't have any healthcare insurance eventually get one without the government providing it, if that person worked hard enough to achieve it on their own?

@Hardkill If any individual worked hard enough to afford healthcare then yes any normal individual could get healthcare insurance when didn't have one before.

However, whether individuals work hard enough to achieve that aim is v dependent on government action.

Responsible government should aim to take 100% responsibility for where each of their citizens end up. Humans have fundamental needs which they are constantly trying to fulfil. By virtue of life experiences and biology, people pick and change between different strategies for meeting those needs. Although it can appear so, this is not a conscious process. And many of these strategies are completely unsustainable.

So for many people their needs meeting strategies will not align with working hard. Hence, no healthcare.

So, unless government implements programmes to address and course correct individual's strategies that don't allow for hard work, many people will not have many of their needs for healthcare met. And those that do will just have had a lucky combination of life experience and biology.

[Bojan V]

In your country people should be payed more. Minimum wage should be a living wage, nothing less.

We don't live to work, we work to live.

[gettoefl]

elephant in the room is

children need a roof need clothes need food

are you going to let them go without?