Western philosophy

[Vibroverse]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

I mean what is your idea of non-stupidity?

Allowing yourself to receive help from thinking, instead of making thinking, like, a conceptual trap in itself. 

[Carl-Richard]

7 hours ago, Vibroverse said:

Allowing yourself to receive help from thinking, instead of making thinking, like, a conceptual trap in itself. 

How does one avoid falling in the conceptual trap?

[Vibroverse]

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

How does one avoid falling in the conceptual trap?

Well, I think the thing with me is, first I wanna find my grounding on the practical level, solving my practical level questions about my individual life, and then I wanna dive into the world of philosophy with a clear mind and beingness. 

 

[Carl-Richard]

13 minutes ago, Vibroverse said:

Well, I think the thing with me is, first I wanna find my grounding on the practical level, solving my practical level questions about my individual life, and then I wanna dive into the world of philosophy with a clear mind and beingness. 

Ah, so the trap is thinking getting derailed by survival pressures, emotions, desires, egoic drives and the like? Yes, you can probably solve a great deal of that, but some of it you just have to live with if you want to exist as a human.

[Leo Gura]

If you're smart you will use philosophy to find Truth.

If you're not, you will use it to bask in your stupidity.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Leo Gura

[axiom]

All philosophy is simply entertainment. It has no value except within the confines of a story.

People can get drawn in to its nuances and machinations such that they will begin to take it very seriously.

People love stories and games and meaning.

But what is the meaning of the teapot? What is the meaning of the sky? Nothing.

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, axiom said:

All philosophy is simply entertainment. It has no value except within the confines of a story.

The story of your life.

[axiom]

27 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

The story of your life.

Right! Exactly. The story of a life being lived by a person. Hah :-) In this respect a life story isn’t real at all. It could be considered a parable, but really it’s nothing.

That said, Achilles and the Tortoise is a pretty neat parable.

[Adamq8]

To the contrary, the West has plenty of profound philosophers now and in the past.

It is not woo woo when it corresponds to your experience as such.

[axiom]

@Adamq8

Sure, nothing like a good story.

[Adamq8]

1 hour ago, axiom said:

@Adamq8

Sure, nothing like a good story.

Nice story bro ?

Edited September 28, 2022 by Adamq8

[Vibroverse]

I think the best philosophy might be the "extremes" the postmodern philosophy that thinks of philosophy as another sets of stories, not more real or "valid" than the stories of the Greek Mythology. 

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Vibroverse

[Adamq8]

1 hour ago, Vibroverse said:

I think the best philosophy might be the "extremes" the postmodern philosophy that thinks of philosophy as another sets of stories, not more real or "valid" than the stories of the Greek Mythology. 

 

Why do you think that? On what do you base your view?

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Vibroverse said:

I think the best philosophy might be the "extremes" the postmodern philosophy that thinks of philosophy as another sets of stories, not more real or "valid" than the stories of the Greek Mythology. 

It's likely you're trying so hard to go meta, you accidentally hit delete on all the content that you're trying to go meta on.

[Vibroverse]

@Adamq8 @Carl-Richard 

I've lost sense of what philosophy even is talking about. I mean, it is like it is not philosophizing that matters, but it is, like, under the domination of a certain mode of language and conceptualization that what has become important in philosophizing has stopped being about what it is even talking about, and it has become, like, an abstract language that refers to, and talks about, its own concepts. 

I mean, what matters in philosophy, in my opinion, is the meanings those concepts are referring to, not the concepts in themselves, but to me it feels like philosophy has long left meaning behind, and has become a process of referring to the concepts within concepts within concepts. 

I mean, what is the purpose of philosophy anyways, if it is not helping you in becoming your true self, but instead becoming a never ending analysis of something that just is? What is the purpose of it if it is not helping one to attain peace in their lives, but is just being a conceptual loop that gets lost in itself? 

Why should I, then, care about that mode of "knowing" instead of a mode of knowing that "means" something to me, that helps me attain peace and beauty in my life? Why should I become, in a sense, a part of that "industry" instead of following my own heart and peace and intuition that really says something to me? 

Why that game, or any other game, really, should be seen as the top game that is "the only representative" of the "highest knowledge"? Why should I be attached to anyone, or anything, or any modality of being, in that sense, just for the sake of finding balance with their language and game that is just another form of existence? 

Why should I be a member of a certain group of a mode of thinking, including the "philosophical" thinking? That's because they've convinced me that their fucked up game, that is just a self referential loop, without even being aware of it, is the highest game in town. 

But when you truly analyze it, and truly look at it, you cannot find anything but just being in it that just is being itself, as any other forms and modes of being. That's just a system that criticizes the system, but it itself becomes another system. 

That's the, in my opinion, the hidden oppression factor in any system of thinking that defines itself as the way, and becomes its own authority by othering all the others who don't obey that authority. And the world of philosophy, as I see, is not any different than that, really. 

That's, in a sense, a system that defines itself to be critical of itself and free, but it is not how it is in practice. Both science and philosophy, and every other system of "knowing", in that sense, has become a dogmatic system in itself, and is not open to different ideas at all, really. 

It is because, for them, it is their mode of being and "knowing" that matters, not a geniune desire to understand more and help each other expand our consciousness. It has become something that has enclosed itself in a certain mode of thinking and perception. 

 

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Vibroverse said:

I mean, what is the purpose of philosophy anyways, if it is not helping you in becoming your true self, but instead becoming a never ending analysis of something that just is? What is the purpose of it if it is not helping one to attain peace in their lives, but is just being a conceptual loop that gets lost in itself? 

We evolved spoken language to increase our capacity to think and process information, cooperate with each other, create culture and survive across different environments and niches.

We then invented writing as a technology to increase our capacity to edit our thinking, and then not long after that, we invented alphabetic writing to make that process even more effective.

We then experienced the Axial revolution: the birth place of Western thought; ancient Greek philosophy and the new world religions. From there, we got various insights: the necessity of law and order (politics), of personal discipline, of a social duty to the larger society (ethics), of a transcendent purpose outside mere power and conquest (morality, aesthetics, spirituality; the Good, the Beautiful, the Sacred), etc.

All this laid the groundwork for how our society functions today. Now, do we even have to ask why that was important? Do we even have to ask why it's still important? We're not the least bit over the challenges that God is throwing at us.

[Vibroverse]

6 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

We evolved spoken language to increase our capacity to think and process information, cooperate with each other, create culture and survive across different environments and niches.

We then invented writing as a technology to increase our capacity to edit our thinking, and then not long after that, we invented alphabetic writing to make that process even more effective.

We then experienced the Axial revolution: the birth place of Western thought; ancient Greek philosophy and the new world religions. From there, we got various insights: the necessity of law and order (politics), of personal discipline, of a social duty to the larger society (ethics), of a transcendent purpose outside mere power and conquest (morality, aesthetics, spirituality; the Good, the Beautiful, the Sacred), etc.

All this laid the groundwork for how our society functions today. Now, do we even have to ask why that was important? Do we even have to ask why it's still important? We're not the least bit over the challenges that God is throwing at us.

I agree with what you say, but what I'm saying is philosophy has just become one of the formal discourses in the process of answering such questions and issues. If what you mean by philosophy is deep and grounded thinking whose purpose is to help us solve our problems, then, of course, I agree with you.