What is the ultimate fear?

[r0ckyreed]

What is the ultimate fear, the mother of all fears? I used to think that the ultimate fear was the fear of death. But now that I look at it, I think the ultimate fear is the fear of loss, fear of eternity, and fear of not-knowing.

Why fear any pain if it is temporary? Why fear death if you knew what death is? What you ultimately fear is loss, the unknown, and experiencing those simultaneously for eternity.

There is much deeper to fear than death. Fear of death boils down to the fear of loss, eternity, and not-knowing. All fear is based on the illusion of ego - a separate self. Fear isn’t bad or good, it is part of survival. Without the impulse of fear and without the energy of love, you cannot accomplish greatness.

Why do you fear death? You are afraid of losing your attachments, the ultimate being yourself. 

Now, think for yourself. Throw away all Buddhist and Actualized.org Bullshit and answer: What is the ultimate fear? What is the root of all fear?

Edited September 21, 2022 by r0ckyreed

[Breakingthewall]

How about not being afraid of anything? everything is temporary, everything passes, everything is as it should be, so why fear?

[r0ckyreed]

15 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

everything is temporary, everything passes,

Is it? Does it? 
 

15 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

How about not being afraid of anything? 

Good luck with that. Let me know how that goes.  

15 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

everything is as it should be, so why fear?

Exactly. Why do you fear? You still haven’t answered that one. Logically you say all of this, but emotionally, you are still scared and are still attached. Don’t try to logic your way out of fear, it won’t work in the heat of the moment when a bear runs after you.  

Edited September 20, 2022 by r0ckyreed

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

Don’t try to logic your way out of fear, it won’t work in the heat of the moment when a bear runs after you.  

I think that if the bear chases me, I'd handle it more or less well, but not other things... stay completely isolated, alone, without communication. locked in a room until death. have a crippling disease . lose sight, loose capability of communication. At the end everything finish, but even that, it's really hard, scary of course 

[gettoefl]

that i let the dream entrap me once again, yet another glorious opportunity lost

oh that it not be so

[r0ckyreed]

Ultimate fear is losing what you love - losing your attachments.  For many people, death seems like the ultimate fear.  But you only fear death because you believe you will lose something.  Christianity doesn't make any sense because they believe that Heaven is a better place than earth, but yet, they are too afraid to go there because that means losing all attachments to life.  But if Heaven is Perfect, then who cares about attachment?  There is an assumption that death is the worst thing that can happen to you, even amongst religious people.  All fear is built around the assumption that whatever you lose will be bad for you. 

Edited September 21, 2022 by r0ckyreed

[Arthogaan]

I would call it the fear of lack.

We fear a situatiom if we believe that in that situation we will lack something and therefore it will not be perfect.

 

[naanu]

Ultimate fear is realizing you are all. There is nobody else to share your being with. Everybody, every time and every thing is something you are imagining right in this timeless eternal moment. Ultimate fear is realizing that the hopes you had of seeing your son grow up is a sham, because your son is someone you imagined! Ouch! Ultimate fear is realizing true ramification of Oneness.

[r0ckyreed]

24 minutes ago, naanu said:

Ultimate fear is realizing you are all. There is nobody else to share your being with. Everybody, every time and every thing is something you are imagining right in this timeless eternal moment.

I edited my original post to include throwing away Actualized.org bullshit as well, but what I really mean is to stop parroting ideas that aren’t your own. 

[r0ckyreed]

1 hour ago, Arthogaan said:

We fear a situatiom if we believe that in that situation we will lack something and therefore it will not be perfect.

 

Maybe threatened is a better word than lack. Why do we feel threatened? Because I fear losing something I value?

[naanu]

27 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

I edited my original post to include throwing away Actualized.org bullshit as well, but what I really mean is to stop parroting ideas that aren’t your own. 

I shared my experienced truth brother, my ultimate fear. This is what I fear facing when I take a psychedelic again. Not parroting.

There isn't an ultimate fear which is universal truth for everyone, is there? 

[amanen]

When people say the fear of death is the ultimate fear, it is not just physical death that is meant there, but more like the death of your identity. This identity might include your self-image, your family, your worldview, your physical body, your freedom, your life situation, your sanity, and so on. Anything that you prefer over anything else is a part of your identity.

The fear of death is completely a survival identity thing, because if you did not have an ego, you would not reject suffering over bliss, you would not fear anything because you would have no identity to hold on to, there would essentially be nothing to protect. You would not consider any state as lesser or worse than any other state. It is only survival and the ego that makes us prefer certain things over others. Pain is only 'bad' because it affects our survival, it isn't actually a bad state. Even physical death is just basically due to us fearing the change or loss of our identity. When we fear anything then we are holding to some identity that is incompatible with the possible scenario of our fear. We have a bias, we want a certain outcome, but we fear we might not get our desired outcome, or we might fear that our undesired outcome will become true instead. This is bias towards something. We might fear suffering (in any form), but this fear is simply because we have an identity that is incompatible with suffering. But with no survival, there would be no reason to have a bias towards anything. All of our actions are basically biased due to survival.

[Breakingthewall]

10 minutes ago, amanen said:

When people say the fear of death is the ultimate fear, it is not just physical death that is meant there, but more like the death of your identity. This identity might include your self-image, your family, your worldview, your physical body, your freedom, your life situation, your sanity, and so on. Anything that you prefer over anything else is a part of your identity.

The fear of death is completely a survival identity thing, because if you did not have an ego, you would not reject suffering over bliss, you would not fear anything because you would have no identity to hold on to, there would essentially be nothing to protect. You would not consider any state as lesser or worse than any other state. It is only survival and the ego that makes us prefer certain things over others. Pain is only 'bad' because it affects our survival, it isn't actually a bad state. Even physical death is just basically due to us fearing the change or loss of our identity. When we fear anything then we are holding to some identity that is incompatible with the possible scenario of our fear. We have a bias, we want a certain outcome, but we fear we might not get our desired outcome, or we might fear that our undesired outcome will become true instead. This is bias towards something. We might fear suffering (in any form), but this fear is simply because we have an identity that is incompatible with suffering. But with no survival, there would be no reason to have a bias towards anything. All of our actions are basically biased due to survival.

Yeah, fear is a survival tool. fear has a function. evolutionarily it allows an organism to have a better chance of survival if it has fear than if it is not. in infinity there is no fear as there is no need to choose between different options. fear takes you away from one option and brings you closer to another. As humans, fear is our ally and also our enemy. It helps us live longer, but it gives us a more miserable life. As humans living in a safe environment, we have the possibility to transcend fear and approach infinity. fear protects us but separates us from what we are

[r0ckyreed]

34 minutes ago, amanen said:

When people say the fear of death is the ultimate fear, it is not just physical death that is meant there, but more like the death of your identity.

I say fear of loss so that everyone understands and is not confused. That’s why I am direct in my communication here. 

The fear is deeper than the knowing of it. Animals have fears, but do animals even have a concept of death?

Even if you realize that physical death is conceptual and never an actual thing, you still will have fear because the emotion runs deeper than your logic.

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

Even if you realize that physical death is conceptual and never an actual thing, you still will have fear because the emotion runs deeper than your logic

Maybe no. There's people who have faced death, even torture, without fear

[r0ckyreed]

58 minutes ago, naanu said:

I shared my experienced truth brother, my ultimate fear. This is what I fear facing when I take a psychedelic again. Not parroting.

There isn't an ultimate fear which is universal truth for everyone, is there? 

If you say so. I am just making sure. A lot of people love pretending they are awake here. It gets kind of annoying. The word “imaginary” is probably the most used word here. I wonder why (sarcasm). 

But hey, I am also a victim of pretending to be awake or more developed than I am. That is how the Devil tricks itself. The Devil cannot be killed if it tricks itself into already thinking it has.

How do you know there is not an ultimate fear? Why do we fear in the first place? Why does it exist? We all have different fears but the same roots is what I’m claiming. How can we empathize if we don’t share the same roots?

[r0ckyreed]

8 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Maybe no. There's people who have faced death, even torture, without fear

How do you know they were without fear? If you are honest, you have no idea how anyone else feels but you. 
 

Notice how no amount of logic will get rid of your fears. Try it out. You just have to learn how to work with it and that is a good thing. Being absent of fear doesn’t make one strong. Embracing fear is far more powerful and liberating.

Courage isn’t the absence of fear but action despite it.

I disagree with any negativity surrounding fear. Many spiritual teachers treat fear as an enemy. Fear is good! What you do with fear is up to you.

Edited September 21, 2022 by r0ckyreed

[Breakingthewall]

40 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

Courage isn’t the absence of fear but action despite it

Yes but I'm almost sure that there have been humans who have completely defeated fear. fear is your friend as an animal that wants to survive, but it is your enemy as a human that wants to transcend. fear limits you. if you want to be infinite, fear must disappear, completely

[r0ckyreed]

39 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes but I'm almost sure that there have been humans who have completely defeated fear.

It is still a belief. Here is my claim, as long as you are alive, you will have fears to various degrees. If you defeat fear, you also defeat desire. And if you defeat desire, you won’t be alive long enough to enjoy your “accomplishment.”

To live is to survive and to survive is to desire and fear. If you get rid of the foundation, everything will collapse.

 

39 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

fear is your friend as an animal that wants to survive, but it is your enemy as a human that wants to transcend. fear limits you. if you want to be infinite, fear must disappear, completely

Maybe. Or maybe fear, in conjunction with desire and love, can also be a powerful, motivating impulse to transcend.

What does it mean to be infinite if you are not able to experience and embrace fear? Infinity to me means inclusivity of EVERYTHING. 

Edit: You are infinite whether you want to be or not.

Edited September 21, 2022 by r0ckyreed

[Breakingthewall]

22 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

It is still a belief. Here is my claim, as long as you are alive, you will have fears to various degrees. If you defeat fear, you also defeat desire. And if you defeat desire, you won’t be alive long enough to enjoy your “accomplishment.”

To live is to survive and to survive is to desire and fear. If you get rid of the foundation, everything will collapse.

 

Maybe. Or maybe fear, in conjunction with desire and love, can also be a powerful, motivating impulse to transcend.

What does it mean to be infinite if you are not able to experience and embrace fear? Infinity to me means inclusivity of EVERYTHING. 

Edit: You are infinite whether you want to be or not.

Agree. If you completely transcend desire and fear, your life will be short. unless others take care of you. fear and desire keep you alive, but they keep you separate, finite. as you say, everything is infinite, but you can be completely blind to this and perceive yourself as completely separate and antagonistic to what is not "you" being really all you. + fear, more separation, zero fear, unity. if you live in a hostile environment, you will need fear to survive. Less hostile, less fear. I guess it's possible be totally aware of unity and infinity in a hostile environment. That is the art of enlightenment. Although it's only an assumption