Be careful with Neo-Advaita trap

[Gidiot]

Well fair enough, I still enjoy life and consciousness and seeing through the illusion,

I don’t want for nothing really. 
 

I like listening to neo advaita teachings but I do feel in my gut when I listen to them that they are missing something, it just doesn’t feel right. (Could be my bias)

And I’m honest enough to say I can’t be bothered to do thousands of hours of meditation or 200 trips of psychedlics. I don’t have the patience for the former  or the balls/stable mental health for the latter, so maybe that’s why I like hearing those empty teachings. 
 

 I will go my own way and suffer if I have to. That’s just life anyway and I apparently designed it that way,  

sucks that consciousness and awakening comes at such a price I’d easily trade my life for it if I could just press a button but putting in all that  effort, much harder.
 

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Gidiot

[axiom]

6 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

It's because it's true.

But they don't give a fuck about "teaching" people or w.e. most people don't. Ruper Spira cares, you can tell the contrast. Buddha seemed to care also. People who care try to use metaphors and imagery to meet people at their level and guide them. Not just sit there using loft words and phrasing to sound "spiritual".

I also used to wonder why some teachers were so uncompromising and seemed not to care. 

Now I realise the point is to present the self with dead end after dead end, mirror after mirror, so that it is ultimately exposed as illusory and exhausts itself.

If the self thinks it is getting even the tiniest something - it will clutch at straws. The self has to lose all hope, all its seeking energy must be depleted to dissolve.

It will usually hide itself in the belief that it can do something to get somewhere. That’s the problem with offering it hope. That’s the problem with spirituality in general. That’s the problem with the teacher / student paradigm.

There is nothing anyone can do to change what is.

This kind of messaging won’t work for every apparent person of course. But for those who are ripe for it, it’s pretty cool.

Edited September 20, 2022 by axiom

[axiom]

11 minutes ago, Gidiot said:

sucks that consciousness and awakening comes at such a price

Don’t believe the hype  

[Gidiot]

@axiom haha I don’t know who to believe but I think both leo and Jim Newman, Osho and Sadhguru, all have something to say and I’ll listen, also it’s not like I never did practices I’ve done hundreds and hundreds of hours of meditation and yoga over 5 years now I just don’t feel like I’m getting anywhere, that’s why those messages became so appealing 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Gidiot

[axiom]

@Gidiot

No one gets anywhere.

I also spent decades meditating and years experimenting with psychedelics. This is good to the extent the self realises - in frustration - that it has made no satisfactory progress, it still feels separate, and is still not enlightened.

Teachers are fine for entertainment value, just don’t take their teachings as a thing to strive for or achieve. Ultimately all teachers and teachings are seen as pointless. All an impediment insofar as they are followed in the hope of arriving at some place.

They are all just excuses for the self to hang its hat on. 

The truth is, there is only enlightenment already. This. 

[Gidiot]

I’d like to get somewhere but what irks me is that even with like you said decades of effort you may not get there. I love it man, I truly do I love life but it’s just so frustrating spinning your wheels. Maybe this must happen too like you said, everything must collapse to see what’s always been there

Edited September 20, 2022 by Gidiot

[vishnusavestheday]

Be wary of pointless non starters that make people sound really dumb

[axiom]

2 minutes ago, Gidiot said:

I’d like to get somewhere but what irks me is that even with like you said decades of effort you may not get there. I love it man, I truly do I love life but it’s just so frustrating spinning your wheels. Maybe this must happen too like you said, everything must collapse to see what’s always been there

Exactly this. 

Humans (uniquely?) have a strong sense of purpose, of free will, of story. Awakening dissolves these things entirely.

Spirituality sounds so tantalising - the idea that there is some amazing secret realisation that can be had or found - that it fills all those cups to overflowing.

The typical spiritual seeker doesn’t realise that they are making their “problem” deeper, stickier, with many more esoteric tendrils.

If you’ve already meditated a lot, you have probably reached the point of abiding in infinite awareness. Infinite self.

You could try re-contextualising awareness as appearance, and meditate on that. That’s what ultimately seemed to cause the penny to drop here. But all is seen to be a story in the end.

[Gidiot]

@axiom I will try that thanks, yea I have no idea what infinite awareness and self is nor do I know how I’d confirm it to myself if I did feel it, yea I know I got into spirituality cause I thought I could get somewhere, I’ll just keep doing whatever happens and be content with it. There really is no other option as I said in another thread if I don’t have the balls for psychs there’s no way I have the balls for destruction of the self in any way

[RMQualtrough]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's group-think. As is Buddhism.

It's funny how the group-think trap of religion just repeats itself within nonduality at a higher level.

Dude you know this forum is just people repeating what you say and watching random gurus all day. It's the same crowd who attend pickup seminars. Creepy really...

"Buddhism" will have the same issue because it's popular on New Age bookshelves at the store for soccer moms to read.

The message is still probably more true... Look at the insane questions here and at Rupert Spira seminars caused by people being told about the secret higher "Self" character. It's just not possible for anyone to think of words like "self" "consciousness" without it having a me to it. It's an inferior teaching.

Self is like drug trip "becoming one with everything", which is losing the sense of literal attachment causing the mind to sort of mingle an idea of self into a borderless liquidy thing that covers all appearing phenomena.

[Leo Gura]

31 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

Dude you know this forum is just people repeating what you say

The difference is I tell you the tools that cut through all the shit.

Whether you use them or not is up to you.

[LSD-Rumi]

Neo advitia teachers need some real life suffering to see how weak and unreliable their teachings are. When you have really severe mental or physical illness, you will know what real life means.

[Kksd74628]

Taking couple people who talk about no-self from youtube to present whole Neo-Advaita group would be equivalent to me make Connor Murphy present whole group of people who say you are god. If you decide to have discussion about these subjects atleast don't attack their weakest side, because it would be abusing argumenting tactics to seemingly win. The point I am trying to make is that Neo-Advaita and those buddhists who aim for peace are more useful for masses than these ultimate god teachers and that's why they are popular. It's called free market, boys.

[Batman]

All teachings are conceptual. Even when you share your "insights" (on a daily basis) in this forum, it is completely conceptual. You can't dismiss one branch because it doesn't fit you. Of course that if a teaching is adopted as a belief system it has no value for awakening, but that is true for every teaching. Some resonate with one teaching, others with an other - there is no science to this. If the "teacher" is wise enough, he will give warning to not accept the communication as a belief, or that it is impossible to be grasped by the mind. 

It is truth that practices can perpetuate the sense of self, because there is a belief that a practice will lead to awakening in the future. But that is false, no practice or process can lead to awakening/enlightenment/realization. Yes, meditation practice can create states of mind because it targets the activity of mind. Other practices are more precisely targeted to reduce the amalgam of identity so that the "probability" for awakening will increase, because at the end it is a matter of identity. But even that does not lead to enlightenment.

So neo-advaita is another "school" that provides a different perspective about non-duality or awakening. It should not be taken as a belief system, but as mere pointing to contemplate or take into consideration while inquiring. 

[LSD-Rumi]

2 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

. The point I am trying to make is that Neo-Advaita and those buddhists who aim for peace are more useful for masses than these ultimate god teachers and that's why they are popular. It's called free market, boys.

They are not that useful to the masses, they are quite boring actually with their boring teachings. No self, peace, no mind. Fuck this shit, it will corrupt your mind and turns you into a peace zombie 

Most people need some serious personal development like the kind of Leo' work and need some spiritual Love for life, not boring peace.

[Kksd74628]

@Batman

3 minutes ago, Batman said:

So neo-advaita is another "school" that provides a different perspective about non-duality or awakening.

Excatly! It should be like there are different subjects and we shouldn't fight subject against another one, because the point is that you learn what you want to learn. Maybe it is that doing psychedelics and focusing to experiences makes you realize something these monks don't, but I'd argue that those monks feel more peaceful in day to day life. Also Neo-Advaita people usually train their mentality to more relaxed mature one which is something which is very cool and important to the opposite of what we have right now in our society.

[Kksd74628]

@LSD-Rumi

3 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

No self, peace, no mind. Fuck this shit, it will corrupt your mind and turns you into a peace zombie 

I'd say learning zen-teachings makes you cooler person imo. I haven't met too many people who naturally seek for peace. Everyone is just in hurry to go to next moment. I don't know what you refer to by peace zombie, because that sounds extremely interesting to me. I am not saying that you can't do anything in your day to day life. I don't say that you should be lazy, but when it's time for enjoyment you should just relax, stop your thinking process and focus on what is actually happening. All these zen teachings teach people to slow down and I'd say that in nowaday society that'd be really appreciated just by looking how stressed people are.

[LSD-Rumi]

@Kksd74628 Peace is not so good, Love is better. Love includes peace in it. If peace is your main teaching, then it will cause you a lot of trouble which you might notice because your brain it too slow to notice 

(Slow mind, emotional stunting and this avoidance to life)  comes to mind when I think of Buddhists. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by LSD-Rumi

[Someone here]

 

The problem with Neo-Advaita teachings Is focusing on the goal, or "end point" of Nondualism, which is the nondual state itself, while almost completely ignoring the path and the teachings on how to achieve same.  In, say, Christianity, this would be the equivalent of talking only about the experience of "Heaven" while giving no importance whatsoever as to how to get there.  They seem to think that simple knowledge and agreement of Nonduality as being the "default state of Existence/Reality" is all that is required, and no further seeking of Truth is necessary.  To me, that is like being stranded on a deserted island with few resources and looking across the ocean at a lush, tropical island paradise and then being too lazy or afraid or whatever to take the necessary steps to escape the current misery of the lesser place and arrive at the better one.

The red flag which led to my discovery of Neo-Advaita was that whenever I was interacting with members of this online Nonduality group I had joined, many of the members had very strong ego reactions to the teachings that I was attempting to share.  A true Nondualist on the path to Enlightenment/Self-realization, unless they are raw beginners or noobs  should be much more in control of ego's urge to react with negative emotions.  With many there, the mere mention of the word "God" or "Consciousness" resulted in immediate contradictory posts, many with a clear tone of condescension.  It became clearer and clearer to me that something important was being left out of the Nondual equation in that group, and that something was the EGO.

[axiom]

33 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

They are not that useful to the masses, they are quite boring actually with their boring teachings. No self, peace, no mind. Fuck this shit, it will corrupt your mind and turns you into a peace zombie 

Most people need some serious personal development like the kind of Leo' work and need some spiritual Love for life, not boring peace.

The self actually seems to reduce all of the beauty, the wonder, and the zest of life by veiling it with neurosis and abstraction.