Is monogamy impossible for some?

[thisintegrated]

So I manifested a new gf, and all it took was like a day.  Got everything I could've possibly wanted, but now that I got it the excitement maybe has worn off just a little.  It seems no matter what I manifest it's never enough.  I'm wondering if I'll ever be satisfied in a relationship.

I manifested money with zero effort.  Manifested a literal 10/10 model fwb, and all that's left is to manifest a car, for which the process has already begun without any input from myself.  The fact that I'm generating my own reality couldn't be any more obvious.  I've even manifested the awareness to answer all my own questions.  I already know my own future and how it'll feel.  It feels so good, so euphoric knowing how perfect everything is, yet also so lacking in fulfilment and satisfaction as it's all within arm's reach but just not quite.

[NoSelfSelf]

I mean this forum wouldnt exist if outside things could fullfill you permenantly ?

If you cant get fullfilment inside yourself then you cant get it nowhere...

Edited September 19, 2022 by NoSelfSelf

[integral]

Ascending (or self-transcendence)

Is the upward drive towards heaven, the absolute, union, spirit, or Godhead, away from the fragmented details of the manifest world and its many forms. Einstein’s famous quote aptly describes ascending: “I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details.” Ascending is also characterized as “the love that reaches up” (Eros) that brings forth new creations by arranging fragments into larger wholes, such as notes into symphonies, ingredients into meals, colors into paintings, words into sentences, knowledge into wisdom, individuals into couples, or communities into societies. Ascenders look at reality from a distance and see fractions as part of the larger whole or a greater totality. They perceive the world from an extended bird’s eye view and try to rise ever higher in consciousness to encompass everything. Ascending energy expresses itself through wisdom, creativity, novelty, visionary concepts, emptiness, and stillness. Healthy ascending is characterized by a desire to improve, to go beyond, to grow, to transcend, to create, and to think big. This is accomplished by gaining wider perspectives of the self and the nature of things. It requires a willingness to change by letting go of old paradigm sand not sweating the small stuff. Unhealthy ascending ignores, represses, controls, and dominates the lower, instead of embracing and caring for it. It denies feelings, the body, sexuality, and nature. The fear of ascenders is to get dragged down, engulfed, absorbed, and lost (Phobos).

Descending (or self-immanence)

is the downward drive towards earth, into the world of many manifestations and the body. Descenders celebrate life and its many forms, the body, and their sexuality. They go with the flow, are in touch with the richness of the manifest world, and experience things from the fullness of existence by diving in deep. Descending is also characterized as “the love that reaches down” (Agape), embracing everything—including earth and all its inhabitants—with selfless compassion and devotion. Descending energy expresses itself through feelings, empathy, emotions, warmth, movement, surrender, fullness, and flow. A descender perceives the world from the inside. Healthy descending means to be connected with and sensitive to the richness and fullness of the world, to be down-to-earth and in touch with one’s body, feelings, emotions, and sexuality. Unhealthy descending means to be overwhelmed, fused with, and run by the many details of life and its manifestations, feelings, earthly desires, and needs. The fear of descenders is to lose touch, to get lost, or to be dissociated from the fullness of life and its forces (Thanatos).106

Agency (or self-preservation)

Is the drive towards wholeness, taking action through one’s own will, making independent choices, and exerting power. People with a tendency towards agency have a desire to maintain their own identity, personality, individuality, independence, and autonomy. They focus on rights, rules, laws, and justice that protect and serve the interests of the individual, and are defined by their own decisions, success, and free will, rather than their environment and the opinion of others (it is better to fail at living your own life, than to succeed at living someone else’s). Healthy agency supports the autonomous functioning of the individual. Unhealthy agency leads to alienation and dissociation from others. The fear of agentic people is to lose the freedom to make independent choices, and to become dependent on others for their well-being.

Communion (or self-adaptation)

Is the drive to connect (commune) with others, to be part of and act in the interest of the unit or group, and to cooperate. Communion is expressed through qualities of care, responsibility, relationship, lateral bonding, connection, communication, empathy, intimacy, joining, and participation. Communal people feel that their well-being depends on their ability to contribute, trust, depend on others, fit into their environment, and maintain a mutual support system of give and take. Healthy communion is expressed through the peaceful, responsible (response-able), considerate, and caring connection between people. Unhealthy communion leads to fusion, dependency, neediness, and clinging—with the loss of one’s own will, individuality, and autonomy—which eventually leads to resentment. The fear of communion-oriented (communal) people is to be abandoned, unsupported, and alone.

 

 

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Maybe the issue is you need to focus on descending/self-immanence?

Edited September 19, 2022 by integral

[LSD-Rumi]

@thisintegrated of course, the ego likes variety and multiple pussies. But I think we as men must learn to have deeper realtionships with our partners.

What is common is the guy loses intrest in the girl in some way, immediately after finishing the dating phase. It is a curse I was aware of since I was a teenager . It is like men will be always chasing new women and then lose intrest in them. But there is a way out which is invest deeply in your parnter emotionally. Your relationship should become stronger and more interesting by the day not the oppoiste but It requires a huge amount of wisdom to love your partner. Most relationships are very shallow and unfulfilling, and it becomes soon like a heavy chore. Relationships, you either master them or you  don't want the trouble from the start

Edited September 19, 2022 by LSD-Rumi

[AtheisticNonduality]

17 minutes ago, integral said:

 

This is good Ken Wilber content.

[integral]

29 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

This is good Ken Wilber content.

[Nilsi]

Just manifest a new one before the excitement wears off lol.

[AtheisticNonduality]

So you finally came to the Orange part of the forum, crawling for help with your relationships?

[puporing]

The virtue of desire is for the purpose of awakening from one level of consciousness to the next. 

[jimwell]

14 hours ago, integral said:

Ascending (or self-transcendence)

Is the upward drive towards heaven, the absolute, union, spirit, or Godhead, away from the fragmented details of the manifest world and its many forms. Einstein’s famous quote aptly describes ascending: “I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details.” Ascending is also characterized as “the love that reaches up” (Eros) that brings forth new creations by arranging fragments into larger wholes, such as notes into symphonies, ingredients into meals, colors into paintings, words into sentences, knowledge into wisdom, individuals into couples, or communities into societies. Ascenders look at reality from a distance and see fractions as part of the larger whole or a greater totality. They perceive the world from an extended bird’s eye view and try to rise ever higher in consciousness to encompass everything. Ascending energy expresses itself through wisdom, creativity, novelty, visionary concepts, emptiness, and stillness. Healthy ascending is characterized by a desire to improve, to go beyond, to grow, to transcend, to create, and to think big. This is accomplished by gaining wider perspectives of the self and the nature of things. It requires a willingness to change by letting go of old paradigm sand not sweating the small stuff. Unhealthy ascending ignores, represses, controls, and dominates the lower, instead of embracing and caring for it. It denies feelings, the body, sexuality, and nature. The fear of ascenders is to get dragged down, engulfed, absorbed, and lost (Phobos).

Descending (or self-immanence)

is the downward drive towards earth, into the world of many manifestations and the body. Descenders celebrate life and its many forms, the body, and their sexuality. They go with the flow, are in touch with the richness of the manifest world, and experience things from the fullness of existence by diving in deep. Descending is also characterized as “the love that reaches down” (Agape), embracing everything—including earth and all its inhabitants—with selfless compassion and devotion. Descending energy expresses itself through feelings, empathy, emotions, warmth, movement, surrender, fullness, and flow. A descender perceives the world from the inside. Healthy descending means to be connected with and sensitive to the richness and fullness of the world, to be down-to-earth and in touch with one’s body, feelings, emotions, and sexuality. Unhealthy descending means to be overwhelmed, fused with, and run by the many details of life and its manifestations, feelings, earthly desires, and needs. The fear of descenders is to lose touch, to get lost, or to be dissociated from the fullness of life and its forces (Thanatos).106

Agency (or self-preservation)

Is the drive towards wholeness, taking action through one’s own will, making independent choices, and exerting power. People with a tendency towards agency have a desire to maintain their own identity, personality, individuality, independence, and autonomy. They focus on rights, rules, laws, and justice that protect and serve the interests of the individual, and are defined by their own decisions, success, and free will, rather than their environment and the opinion of others (it is better to fail at living your own life, than to succeed at living someone else’s). Healthy agency supports the autonomous functioning of the individual. Unhealthy agency leads to alienation and dissociation from others. The fear of agentic people is to lose the freedom to make independent choices, and to become dependent on others for their well-being.

Communion (or self-adaptation)

Is the drive to connect (commune) with others, to be part of and act in the interest of the unit or group, and to cooperate. Communion is expressed through qualities of care, responsibility, relationship, lateral bonding, connection, communication, empathy, intimacy, joining, and participation. Communal people feel that their well-being depends on their ability to contribute, trust, depend on others, fit into their environment, and maintain a mutual support system of give and take. Healthy communion is expressed through the peaceful, responsible (response-able), considerate, and caring connection between people. Unhealthy communion leads to fusion, dependency, neediness, and clinging—with the loss of one’s own will, individuality, and autonomy—which eventually leads to resentment. The fear of communion-oriented (communal) people is to be abandoned, unsupported, and alone.

 

 

--------

 

Maybe the issue is you need to focus on descending/self-immanence?

A good post. The best way is to embody all 4.

[jimwell]

On 9/19/2022 at 8:26 AM, thisintegrated said:

So I manifested a new gf, and all it took was like a day.  Got everything I could've possibly wanted, but now that I got it the excitement maybe has worn off just a little.  It seems no matter what I manifest it's never enough.  I'm wondering if I'll ever be satisfied in a relationship.

Everything in existence, no matter how beautiful, fades.

I'll share an experience which happened a few years ago. I was sitting in a Japanese park, marveling at the beauty of the wide-open space, grasses, trees, and skylarks.

I felt deep joy and I said to myself "I've been looking for this beautiful place my entire life without even knowing it. Now I'm finally here. I will come to this place every few days to watch these beautiful things and feel this joy.".

So, that was what I did. And for the first month, I was one of the happiest few humans in the world. But I was surprised that the park lost its beauty in the second month. I was very disappointed.

I contemplated why that was the situation. Then I realized, the park actually did not lose its beauty. It was my senses and perception which lost their appreciation capability, hence the joy also faded. I also realized this is not avoidable. God designed it that way to motivate me to enjoy as many parks as I can. God wants me to enjoy variety of beauty. 

This is also true to all other things in existence. God wants you to enjoy as many works of art, foods, parks, women, etc., as you can. If you ate only sushi your entire life, you would be sick of it and become unhealthy. It's good to enjoy other foods. If you stayed at the same hotel every vacation time, you would also be sick of it. It's good to enjoy other hotels. Of course, if you flirted and fucked only one woman your entire life, you would also be sick of her and that would be a big tragedy. It's surely good to enjoy other beautiful women.

Monogamy is dumb. I think polyamory is better. I haven't done much research on polyamory so I don't understand it that much. But I want to say you can have a deep, genuine relationship with more than one woman simultaneously. It functions similar to synergy. When you start to feel sick of flirting and fucking Kimberly, you take a break and you spend more time flirting and fucking Park Min-ji. When you get sick of flirting and fucking Park Min-ji, you take a break again and spend more time with Ishii Yuki or Kimberly again. That's how you generate and sustain love and excitement. And paradoxically, it nourishes romantic relationships. 

If monogamy is the best, why do you think cheating, domestic abuse and divorce are prevalent? It is natural for a sexual human to be simultaneously sexually attracted to more than one sexual partner. Monogamy forces naturally polygamous humans to enjoy only one partner, hence the marital tragedy. Even married couples who are not legally divorced are essentially divorced. Many of such couples are sexless or the romantic spark is long gone. They are essentially friends who chose to stay together for the kids or other reasons.

But I need to clarify that this is not true for everybody. Some humans are naturally ok being monogamous (especially humans with low libido). So they should honor their monogamy. I just want to demonstrate why polygamy is superior to monogamy.

Edited September 20, 2022 by jimwell
enhanced grammar

[thisintegrated]

On 19/09/2022 at 4:07 PM, LSD-Rumi said:

@thisintegrated of course, the ego likes variety and multiple pussies. But I think we as men must learn to have deeper realtionships with our partners.

Already had that.  I think it's good to try to find balance between our love lives and sex lives.  Unhealthy for one to dominate completely.

 

Quote

What is common is the guy loses intrest in the girl in some way, immediately after finishing the dating phase. It is a curse I was aware of since I was a teenager . It is like men will be always chasing new women and then lose intrest in them. But there is a way out which is invest deeply in your parnter emotionally. Your relationship should become stronger and more interesting by the day not the oppoiste but It requires a huge amount of wisdom to love your partner. Most relationships are very shallow and unfulfilling, and it becomes soon like a heavy chore. Relationships, you either master them or you  don't want the trouble from the start

I only really do long distance relationships so that totally doesn't apply to me, lol.

 

On 19/09/2022 at 4:58 PM, Nilsi said:

Just manifest a new one before the excitement wears off lol.

I did, but it's pointless.

 

On 19/09/2022 at 9:55 PM, AtheisticNonduality said:

So you finally came to the Orange part of the forum, crawling for help with your relationships?

lol, I'm not without my lower chakras.  I've just been ignoring them for a while.

 

21 hours ago, puporing said:

The virtue of desire is for the purpose of awakening from one level of consciousness to the next. 

You're advising to transcend sex.  Not sure that's a good idea.  As humans, we shouldn't try to reshape our nature and live only in our heads.

 

Quote

This is also true to all other things in existence. God wants you to enjoy as many works of art, foods, parks, women, etc., as you can. If you ate only sushi your entire life, you would be sick of it and become unhealthy. It's good to enjoy other foods. If you stayed at the same hotel every vacation time, you would also be sick of it. It's good to enjoy other hotels. Of course, if you flirted and fucked only one woman your entire life, you would also be sick of her and that would be a big tragedy. It's surely good to enjoy other beautiful women.

Yeah.. that's basically my perspective.  If monogamy is so great, why not have multiple monogamies?

I think the only real argument against polygamy is that humans are very limited in their capacity for love, and so resources are best spent on a single person as it will result in a deeper, more fulfilling bond.

But I do think that perhaps sex should be separated from love.  Men are evolved to need not only love but also sex, so limiting yourself to one sex partner is unnatural.

 

Quote

Monogamy is dumb. I think polyamory is better. I haven't done much research on polyamory so I don't understand it that much. But I want to say you can have a deep, genuine relationship with more than one woman simultaneously. It functions similar to synergy. When you start to feel sick of flirting and fucking Kimberly, you take a break and you spend more time flirting and fucking Park Min-ji. When you get sick of flirting and fucking Park Min-ji, you take a break again and spend more time with Ishii Yuki or Kimberly again. That's how you generate and sustain love and excitement. And paradoxically, it nourishes romantic relationships. 

That's pretty much how I've approached this.  But I always come back to the same person in the end.

 

Quote

If monogamy is the best, why do you think cheating, domestic abuse and divorce are prevalent? It is natural for a sexual human to be simultaneously sexually attracted to more than one sexual partner. Monogamy forces naturally polygamous humans to enjoy only one partner, hence the marital tragedy. Even married couples who are not legally divorced are essentially divorced. Many of such couples are sexless or the romantic spark is long gone. They are essentially friends who chose to stay together for the kids or other reasons.

1. For humans monogamy is likely more natural, but it's a more recent evolutionary adaptation.  Monogamy is egoistic and selfish, as you're trying to ensure the propagation of your own genes, so it's something only an advanced species like humans would intentionally engage in.  If we were stupid animals we would be polygamous, but we're not.

2. With deep love it's possible to actually only be attracted to your one partner as all others pale in comparison without the love component.

 

Quote

But I need to clarify that this is not true for everybody. Some humans are naturally ok being monogamous (especially humans with low libido). So they should honor their monogamy. I just want to demonstrate why polygamy is superior to monogamy.

tfw very high libido.

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by thisintegrated

[Nilsi]

3 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

I think the only real argument against polygamy is that humans are very limited in their capacity for love, and so resources are best spent on a single person as it will result in a deeper, more fulfilling bond.

Its obvious that you dont give a shit about a girl you have known for one day. If you really care about monogamy, or at least want to give it a serious shot, you just have to bite the bullet of getting to know each other, going out, doing activities together etc. I wouldnt even put that on a limited capacity to love; its as with everything - the more time you spend with it, the better it gets, the more time you want to spend with it. Its just a pain in the ass to get to the point at which the relationship will be meaningful enough to justify it.

[puporing]

4 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

You're advising to transcend sex.  Not sure that's a good idea.  As humans, we shouldn't try to reshape our nature and live only in our heads.

Not exactly though I can see it being interpreted that way, only if it happened naturally not something to force upon. I'm saying that pursuing your desires can help you awaken and grow, if that's something you want. I think you already know my stance on polyamory. 

In practice poly is hard to pull off long-term in our current level of consciousness, but it's still worth trying if your heart is going in that direction. I mostly these days prefer it as a "dream" than a "manifested reality" unless someone suited for it and/or wanted the same came along. Nothing stops you from loving multiple people from afar however. But yes sex would be a different story and would complicate things unless you can find people with similar understandings/mindset..

Edited September 21, 2022 by puporing

[Nilsi]

3 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

1. For humans monogamy is likely more natural, but it's a more recent evolutionary adaptation.  Monogamy is egoistic and selfish, as you're trying to ensure the propagation of your own genes, so it's something only an advanced species like humans would intentionally engage in.  If we were stupid animals we would be polygamous, but we're not.

It depends what you mean by stupid. Monogamy selects for traits like being nice, loyal, content etc., while polygamy selects for dominance, looks, (possibly smarts). Some may even say this is deteriorating western culture lol. From natures perspective you could argue that the best specimen should reproduce unhindered and all the other men should be monogamous and raise the children of their women (even if they are not their own).

Monogamy is just the only sensible mating system in our current society. Polygamy is really only ethical, if we can ensure that everybody gets to fuck (otherwise were back to survival of the fittest again).

Edited September 21, 2022 by Nilsi

[Razard86]

On 9/20/2022 at 2:59 AM, jimwell said:

Everything in existence, no matter how beautiful, fades.

I'll share an experience which happened a few years ago. I was sitting in a Japanese park, marveling at the beauty of the wide-open space, grasses, trees, and skylarks.

I felt deep joy and I said to myself "I've been looking for this beautiful place my entire life without even knowing it. Now I'm finally here. I will come to this place every few days to watch these beautiful things and feel this joy.".

So, that was what I did. And for the first month, I was one of the happiest few humans in the world. But I was surprised that the park lost its beauty in the second month. I was very disappointed.

I contemplated why that was the situation. Then I realized, the park actually did not lose its beauty. It was my senses and perception which lost their appreciation capability, hence the joy also faded. I also realized this is not avoidable. God designed it that way to motivate me to enjoy as many parks as I can. God wants me to enjoy variety of beauty. 

This is also true to all other things in existence. God wants you to enjoy as many works of art, foods, parks, women, etc., as you can. If you ate only sushi your entire life, you would be sick of it and become unhealthy. It's good to enjoy other foods. If you stayed at the same hotel every vacation time, you would also be sick of it. It's good to enjoy other hotels. Of course, if you flirted and fucked only one woman your entire life, you would also be sick of her and that would be a big tragedy. It's surely good to enjoy other beautiful women.

Monogamy is dumb. I think polyamory is better. I haven't done much research on polyamory so I don't understand it that much. But I want to say you can have a deep, genuine relationship with more than one woman simultaneously. It functions similar to synergy. When you start to feel sick of flirting and fucking Kimberly, you take a break and you spend more time flirting and fucking Park Min-ji. When you get sick of flirting and fucking Park Min-ji, you take a break again and spend more time with Ishii Yuki or Kimberly again. That's how you generate and sustain love and excitement. And paradoxically, it nourishes romantic relationships. 

If monogamy is the best, why do you think cheating, domestic abuse and divorce are prevalent? It is natural for a sexual human to be simultaneously sexually attracted to more than one sexual partner. Monogamy forces naturally polygamous humans to enjoy only one partner, hence the marital tragedy. Even married couples who are not legally divorced are essentially divorced. Many of such couples are sexless or the romantic spark is long gone. They are essentially friends who chose to stay together for the kids or other reasons.

But I need to clarify that this is not true for everybody. Some humans are naturally ok being monogamous (especially humans with low libido). So they should honor their monogamy. I just want to demonstrate why polygamy is superior to monogamy.

I agree with your entire post except one part....its not superior...its just more adventurous. I would say though it would take more self-love to be polyamorous. Also polyamory predates monogamy, I also seeing it coming back as a thing in the next 10 years so into mainstream culture. It was around during the 60-70's and will come around again.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Razard86