Major developments in the Russo-Ukraine war

[Blackhawk]

I like this too https://youtube.com/@ListenToTimesRadio

[Danioover9000]

@RebornConsciousness

10 minutes ago, RebornConsciousness said:

Ukraine attacked Russia's territory LOL with houndred something soldiers, one helicopter, 2 jets and a few tanks. Nice PR stunt, compensating for the Bakhmut failure

   So, which country started the conflict in the first place?

[WeCome1]

3 hours ago, RebornConsciousness said:

Nice PR stunt, compensating for the Bakhmut failure

Not what this is about. Most of RU troops are now concentrated in the south-east (Priazovye) which is strategically the most important direction of the coming UA counter-offensive. So what UA will be doing now is provocations in the under-protected regions which cannot be ignored by Putin for political/prestige reasons (exactly like this one) to divert attention and some of the troops. It's pure tactics, Zaluzhny is a genius.

[Danioover9000]

@RebornConsciousness

3 hours ago, RebornConsciousness said:

I'm not commenting on ethics or morality here, just expressing my sheer surprise over their sudden attack. Obviously Ukraine is justified to do whatever it wants, and Russia is the villain, in spite of all the geopolitical reasons or other unrelated reasons that made them attack. However, maybe the Ukraineans should fully focus on making the war as costly as possible for the Russians, instead of these PR propaganda stunts

   Is your sheer surprise over their sudden attack have no moral or ethical base?

   If Ukraine is justified to do whatever it wants, and Russia is the villain, does that mean Ukraine gets to rape and murder Russian citizens?

   Why is it in spite of all the geopolitical reasons and unrelated reasons? To me geopolitics can be a significant factor as well as political, ideological, environmental, economic, and other reasons less related to such as Stages of development, cognitive and moral development, personality types/traits, states of being/becoming and consciousness, life experiences and other lines of development personal to societal domains, and ideological indoctrinations and self biases.

   Why do you think Ukraine should make the war costly versus continue making propaganda against Russia?  

[Danioover9000]

@RebornConsciousness

2 hours ago, RebornConsciousness said:

You aint going to do much with a few houndred troops. Russians are also not stupid, and aren't going to allocate serious ammount of troops unless the threat to their homeland is serious

No

If we were to be completely honest, in reality, anyone can do whatever they want, inluding any state, society, political party, etc. if they simply accept the consequences of their actions.

They should do both in equal measure.

At this point, you're just asking questions for the sake of asking them

   What do you mean 'houndred troops' and 'ammount'? You meant a few hundred troops and amount?

   Why not?

   So, anyone, any state, any society, any political party can do what they want, but if they don't accept the consequences of their actions, then they can't do what they want? So, if the Ukraine country don't declare, or make a statement of intent that they want to steal, murder and rape Russian people, then the Ukrainians are wrong and bad mannered, which means they need to accept some of the consequences first to make their actions justified?

   What if they can't do both in equal measure, and have to do one first before the other? Are you both siding gorilla tactics and propaganda?

   Why are you assuming I just ask questions for the sake of asking, and not because I'm bored, or trolling, or wanting to improve my questioning?

[Israfil]

 

 

[EugeneTheSage]

• On 5/23/2023 at 2:09 PM, Danioover9000 said:

  • @RebornConsciousnessshh

  Can't remove the quote on mobile

I now see that russia is really weak. It is crumbling. They were always that weak - they needed brute force (Chechnya wars, invasion of Georgia, deportation of crimean tatars etc.) to cover that weakness. On the russian tv shows they now openly say that the defeat is imminent.

The attack of the russian legion "free russia" on the russian territory will have much bigger effect than the resources deployed. If these forces were deployed on the Bakhmut direction there would be almost no difference. But these guys from legion could trigger a whole civil war in Russia.

Bwy, I don't believe that Putin is alive anymore, on the 9th of may it definitely was a double. And there is information vacuum glooming from him. I would say that Prigozhin now represents russia in informarion stream more than anyone else. 

[EugeneTheSage]

On 5/24/2023 at 0:24 AM, Israfil said:

 

 

Pozner is a russian agent in wester world, he almost hooked me

[EugeneTheSage]

On 1/27/2023 at 7:30 PM, Ryan_047 said:

The only way they can win at this point are tactical nuclear weapons, and maybe not even then. 

Or maybe if they pull some sort of Stalingrad like campaign for when Ukraine will try to liberate Crimea, but I still doubt it. 

Any army that had entered the crimea from north ended up capturing it. It is a huge cauldron

[Israfil]

14 minutes ago, EugeneTheSage said:

Pozner is a russian agent in wester world, he almost hooked me

Do you dispute that the west had never taken seriously any approximation trials from China and Russia? Which American president made efforts to escalate this almost 80-year-long conflict?

[EugeneTheSage]

5 minutes ago, Israfil said:

Do you dispute that the west had never taken seriously any approximation trials from China and Russia? Which American president made efforts to escalate this almost 80-year-long conflict?

What do you mean by approximation?

I don't know which president. You mean cold war? It had ended in 90. But then russia again decided to revive it. They could have focused on economics and invest billions of gas and oild revenues to invest in AI, fast train network interconnecting all country, but they decided to live the past.

[8Ball]

Very few wars end with total victory. I read all the time how Russia wasn't this powerful military power they seemed to be when it's obvious they haven't accomplished much. Let's not forget how the Vietnam war and the war in Afghanistan ended. History's greatest and most competent military power can still face embarassing losses.

Russia probably never expected this kind of response from the west and that's partially the reason for the non-advancement of Russia's objectives. Ukraine had an army to be reckoned with even before the west's help with a great number of reservists and they would be equally or maybe slightly less successful in pushing the Russian's back even without the west backing them. However, without the help of the west, Russia's immense manpower would eventually win this war, if not a complete victory than a partial one at least. Looking back at Russia's war history, they seldom win wars with technological advancements, advanced military plans or with militart expertise and competence. Russia's war wachine just throw bodies at the enemy until the other party is completely overwhelmed.

If Ukraine keeps pushing them back, the response will most likely be to just throw more bodies at them. Ukraine will be outnumbered in the long run for sure. The question is, will Ukraine's constant supply of military aid with advance weapons system offset the great manpower of mostly non-motivated Russian soldiers?

I think the answer is yes. But I worry what happens next. Defeat will not be tolerated. If Russia gets pushed back far enough they will probably either declare full scale war on Ukraine (maybe some false flag operation will take place) or tactical nukes will be put to use. What happens next is any ones guess.

Hopefully Ukraine will win and Russia's autocracy will come to an end and the people can enjoy a more prosperous life.

Edited June 6, 2023 by 8Ball

[8Ball]

Continued... (to avoid one giant super long post)

Very few people really know the motive for the invasion of Ukraine. We can all juat speculate. Maybe Putin wants to expand Russia's territory, or maybe NATO's expansion does in fact threat Russia and push them in a corner (from their point of view at least). Or maybe Putin has just lost it.

My two cents are that Putin is perfectally mentally clear and made such a decision based on credible and justifyable reasons for an invasion (from his point of view at least). I have a hunch that the disruption of Russia's sphere of influence had something to do with it. If one doesn't understand how sphere's of influence affects geopolitics you're best not to debate this topic. USAs sphere of influence is immense and reaches all corners of the earth. How would the US like it if a foreign nation attempts to disrupt that balance? Like China successfully getting South Korea and Japan and of Nato as an example. US would not like this disruption. Measures would be taken no doubt! And taking measures is not inherently wrong if actions like so might threaten your own countries security. If you meddle in somebody elses affair there will be a response. My bet is that since Russia has lost a great portion of its sphere of influence since many decades, trying to bring the order back before it's to late might have been the reason to flex the muscles to show the west that Russia are willing to do whatever necessary as not to disrupt the current balance even further.

I'd love to hear other opinions on this. I find this war fascinating (I don't mean it in a bad way) but never in my life has a war taken place in a relatively close proximity and I'm very passionate about being part of something history books might write about. I love to contemplate all the complexities and making sense of it. Because there's more to this story than media portrays. Or how western countries portray it. Where the fuck was the response from European countries when the US invaded Iraq? Some critiques here and there were pretty much it. But since it's Russia, this historically murderous country who pretty much did the same thing with the Iraq invasion of 2003, we suddenly must comply with Zelenskyj and give him what he want. We are playing with fire and dealing with a country with the highest arsenal of nuclear weapons. Let's step back and assess this situation from a stage yellow perspective is what I hope world leaders would do.

With that said, my final hopes for this war is that Ukraine, along with the West wins this war as it most likely will benefit humanity in the long run.

Edited June 6, 2023 by 8Ball

[Breakingthewall]

8 hours ago, 8Ball said:

Very few people really know the motive for the invasion of Ukraine.

Id say that is to challenge the West and win, and in this way completely change the balance of forces in the world.  USA has made one mistake after another in international politics and has proven to be a treasonous partner in Afghanistan and Syria. Until now it has been the only one to have the power to invade and destroy political regimes of foreign countries, such as Iraq or Libya, for economic reasons. They had been pushing and obviously ignoring russia for years, extending his influence in his surroundings as if russia were nothing. that is to say, if russia allows this, it is that it is nothing, in terms of an agent that influences foreign policy, and that is what usa has wanted to demonstrate.

Russia with this invasion has launched a bet: do you have balls? I have, and you? If you don't have them, forget about being the boss of the schoolyard. 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Breakingthewall