What stage of Relationship Development are you at?

[integral]

STAGES OF ANIMA DEVELOPMENT IN MEN

1. Women as mother - He needs a mommy to take care of him.

In this first stage, a man’s anima is completely tied up with the mother. She is not necessarily his personal mother but the image of a woman that is a faithful provider of nourishment, security, and love. She represents all that is natural, instinctual, and biological.223 A man with an anima complex of this type cannot function well without a vital connection to a woman, and is easy prey of being controlled and exploited by her. He frequently suffers from impotence or has no sexual desire at all, and is therefore called a mama’s boy. This type of anima possession also manifests through fear of accidents or disease, or in a sort of dullness of personality. The Greek Sirens and the German Lorelei personify these dangerous aspects of the anima, which may even lead a man to his death over a lost love relationship through suicide.

2. Women as sex object - He wants her to make him feel good.

In the second stage, the anima is a collective sexual image. She is a Marilyn Monroe, Madonna, or Playboy model. Men in stage two are often Don Juans who see all women as sex objects, and engage in repeated sexual adventures, sometimes developing into sexual addictions. These relationships are invariably short-lived, because he is not faithful, is always looking for his next conquest, and no woman can ever live up to his unrealistic image of the ideal female partner.

3. Women as wife - He wants her loyalty and support.

In the third stage of his anima complex development, a man becomes ready to care for a wife and be devoted to his family. He is the loving protector and provider that women in the equivalent stage three of their animus development seek. Men with this anima accept their partner as she is, as long as she fulfills her role as supportive, undemanding, caring, and faithful wife, available sex partner, and loving mother to his children. His sexuality is usually integrated into their relationship and not an autonomous function that drives him. He can differentiate between love and lust, which allows him to create a lasting partnership (if she stays), because he can tell the difference between the objects of his sexual desire and the benefits of being a faithful partner/husband.

4. Women as guide to creativity and awakening - He struggles with her need for independence.

In the fourth stage, a man’s anima functions as a guide to his inner life. As women in this stage become emotionally and financially independent from men, they often turn away and abandon their partners against their will. This challenges him to seek other sources of fulfillment, happiness, aliveness, passion, joy, purpose, peace, and love. Through his quest arises a desire to answer life’s deeper questions of “who am I,” “where do I come from,” “why am I here,” “what is the meaning of my life,” “what should I do,” “what is my purpose,” and “where do I go”? Contemplating these questions, reading books like the one that you are holding right now, meditating, or seeking a bond with others on a similar path in men’s groups, New Age churches, and personal growth workshops allow him to bring deeper levels of his unconscious anima into his awareness. This leads to a liberating process of awakening to his authentic nature, true purpose, genuine passions, and capacity to love unconditionally that are independent from a partnership with a woman.224 On the flipside, he may show behaviors that are usually described as a midlife crisis,225 become commitment phobic, avoid deeper intimacy with women altogether, or engage in serial monogamy or polyamory,226 since he does not want to sacrifice his newfound freedom or to be limited by one partnership. This partial awakening (the idea of living alone is not Integral, fully realized, or the ultimate realization of human development) is transcended when a man enters stage five of his anima development.

5. Women as equal partner - He meets her as an opposite and equal partner.

Similar to a woman in this stage (see below), a man in stage five of his anima complex development has accepted the fact that conflicts and ambivalence are intrinsic to human relationships, and sees how their resolution contributes to his ongoing healing, personal growth, and spiritual realization. He feels confident, secure, and comfortable to authentically express his sexual essence (which tends to be masculine in heterosexual men), while he embraces his feminine (anima).227 This allows him to invite differing views, experiences, and feelings of his female partner without feeling threatened, offended, or puzzled by them. Her authentic stage-five feminine qualities naturally complement his masculinity and vice versa. Since he has found his own purposeful identity that does not depend on her inspiration, support, or approval, he appreciates his partner’s independent authority,228 and doesn’t feel responsibility, shame, or insecurity if she is unhappy—even though he shows empathy, care, and devotion—and enjoys when she is happy. He neither clings, nor pushes her away, but fully opens to embrace her at all levels of his being when they are together, and stays content and fulfilled when they are apart. This allows him to enter into a mature monogamous relationship of opposites and equals from which radically new life experiences, emotional healing processes, and deeper spiritual realizations that often become the foundation for altruistic acts of kindness and service towards others emerge.

 

STAGES OF ANIMUS DEVELOPMENT IN WOMEN

1. Men as alien outsiders - She fears, hates, and loves him.

Because of abuse or abandonment from men that she identified with during childhood, such as a father, father figure, older brother, uncle, or family friend, a woman in this stage completely denies and suppresses her animus as alien inside and outside of herself. She trusts her mother and other females, while she distrusts, hates, or fears men. This is often countered by a strange curiosity about men, which she cannot differentiate. This ambivalence can make her extremely seductive, needy, and clingy, and cause severe symptoms of the “seduce and withhold”230 syndrome. As soon as a man gets close to her she withdraws, only to come back to ask for more after he becomes distant. She can break the heart of a weak man who tries to prove that he is different, attempts to rescue her from her fears, and so becomes codependent231 as she lures him into her pathological cat and mouse game. Within the limits of her domain in household, family, and female-oriented work environment (e.g., school teacher, nurse, artist, gardener, therapist, healer, working with animals, etc.), such a woman may seem grounded and self-confident. Outside those limits, she leaves the work and responsibility to men and more mature women.232

2. Men as father, God, or king - She wants his approval.

The self-esteem of a woman in this stage is directly connected to the response and approval that she receives from men. She is often driven by a need to be seen as the most attractive female, and constantly monitors her value by her internalized masculine judgment and through externalized male reflection. This may lead to a split in her personality when she imitates male behavior to be liked by them, and at other times presents herself as a sexually seductive femme fatale (such as in the movie Basic Instinct) to be desired. She either hides behind a feminine mask of beautiful appearance, graceful charming manner, and entertaining wit, or develops a tom boyish attitude through teasing, competing, and challenging, or some other facade that suggests success. Women in this stage gravitate towards men that they perceive to be more attractive, intelligent, and exciting than they could ever be themselves. They often try to live up to men by dietary restrictions, vigorous physical exercising, adapting to their intellectual interests, developing new talents, and being sexually available to become the perfect mate. If a woman remains in this stage, she is at great risk of entering a profound depression when her beauty and sexual attractiveness wane, and the number of heads that she is turning, and men who admire her diminishes. She may then isolate herself from all intimate relationships, because her perfectionism overrides her ability to be compassionate and to forgive her own and others’ mistakes. This may lead her to withdraw into a cold and bitter self-denial in which her anxieties create all kinds of psychosomatic illnesses, such as panic attacks, vomiting, heart problems, fatigue, and body aches. A strong, conscious, and patient man (or a good psychotherapist) can support a woman in this stage to find her own worth, passions, and identity, independent of male approval, which then allows her to enter into stage three.233

3. Men as hero - She wants him to take care of her.

Women in stage three seek a man as protector and provider with strength, courage, and ability, who can meet her needs, cherish her, and whom she wants to marry. He represents her ideal (and often unrealistic) image of the knight in shining armor who fulfills her expectations for good looks, intelligence, solid reputation, stable finances, generosity, loyalty, humor, kindness, care, integrity, and faithfulness. To be in a good bargaining position, this woman will focus on her appearance, health/fitness, and adapting to the world of men by seeking a higher education, pursuing a career, fighting for social justice, or saving a failing business. She will appear as self-affirming and expects something in return. She functions well in the competitive world of men, sees herself as equal, is willing to share responsibilities, and will contribute and perform as long as her partner is able to provide more in return, since women want to marry up. As long as he meets her expectations for financial security, social status, and devotion, she will support him to achieve his full potential while often denying such achievements to herself. This can lead to feelings of resentment and anger when she sees that she has been “denied” the right to experience her own competence, and when her partner/husband fails to live up to her ever-growing expectations. Some women in this stage will enter an inward journey once they become aware of the transitory nature of their physical attractiveness, ability to succeed with men, and limitations of finding acceptance in the male world. This may lead them to the restoration of their female authority 234 as they take responsibility for their own identity once they have moved into stage four of their animus complex development.235

4. Men as independent beings - She wants her independence.

A woman in stage four makes an active choice in favor of her self-interest and self-fulfillment—independent of a partner or husband. This transition takes place with the realization that she has constructed her own experiences throughout her lifetime in relationship to men, and now wants to find her own identity. She will stop trying to be perfect in all things in order to please her partner (who was a heroic father figure in the previous stage), as she becomes emotionally free from his approval and support. Having discovered her own source of worthiness and foundation, she is working to restore her female authority. Financial independence through her own labor or through other sources of money that are often only available to women, such as “divorcing well,” alimony and child-support payments, generous lovers, support from parents, or Social Security benefits, are the prerequisite for this transition. You will notice if your partner enters into stage four of her animus development when she starts to challenge you, cares less about your needs, seeks her financial independence, and refuses to take responsibility for holding your relationship together. If you are in partnership with a woman in this stage, it is important to know that it is not your fault that her pain of staying will eventually be greater than her fear of leaving, and that there is nothing you can do but to take care of yourself emotionally 236 and sexually, protect the financial assets that are legitimately yours (if you have to, with the help of a CPA or lawyer), and, if you can, support her with love and compassion in her transition. Once separated and/or divorced, she will feel free from the evaluation and needs of men for the first time in her life. These newly single women are then much occupied with challenging work, their animals and children, social activities, educational advancements, maintaining their household, hobbies, world-travel, and their friendships.237 At the same time, they look down at women who show more feminine or balanced qualities and who desire to be (or are) in a committed partnership with a man. To women in stage four, partnered women still seem to be in the pitiful stage two or three of dependence on a male partner (which they have just escaped). However, married women may have actually advanced into stage five, which women in stage four cannot fathom yet. They discredit partnered women as unevolved and often compete with them in merciless ways. Women in stage four frequently break with the conventional role of caring mother, show tough love, and feel fulfilled outside a partnership with a man. Still, there remains an underlying fear of abandonment, especially in older women, when concerns about the disappearance of their skills and autonomy in the midst of a crisis arise. This often leads to feelings of ambivalence. On one side there is a secret longing for the stability and support that a partnership with a man could provide during times of stress, fatigue, loneliness, or desire for sex. On the other side there is the fear of becoming emotionally dependent, used, and dominated again. Frequent complaints about the lack of good men who are physically fit and attractive, highly intelligent, successful, accomplished, mature, kind, loving, generous, evolved, supportive, spiritual, and available when they need/want them, but who remain flexible, undemanding, and unattached otherwise, are a hallmark of women in stage four.238 Becoming men-hating diehard singles, settling for “friends with benefits” whom they string a long, or serial monogamy are often the only solutions that seem to solve their dilemma. It is not your fault if you get mixed messages, are rejected, or are ignored altogether by women in stage four that you try to date or get a commitment from, as these women are highly independent, endlessly demanding, impossible to please, and commitmentphobic.239 This is, of course, no problem for men who have entered stage four of their own anima development, which many single males and females falsely see as the highest stage of their personal and spiritual development (as in, I am so whole and complete, I don’t need a partner to complete me). If you have matured into stage five and meet a woman who is at the end of her animus stage four development, then you may be able to patiently support her to transition into stage five and find a wonderful partner in her.

5. Men as equal partners - She wants him as an equal and opposite partner.

Just as a man, a woman in stage five of her animus development has accepted that conflict and ambivalence are intrinsic to human relationships, and realized the significance of a partnership to balance her further psychological growth and spiritual awakening.240 Having fully claimed her own authority after transcending her animus complex, she no longer sees men as alien, superior, inferior, or independent. The realization that the idea of living and going it alone was a distorted conception of human existence emerges in her, because we never live alone. She sees that in being human we have a variety of economic, physical, sexual, psychological, and spiritual needs that cannot be met by living alone. At last she has the insight that a balanced personality always develops in a self-other conception, and never through the discovery of an independent self.241 This woman then desires the material, intellectual, emotional, sexual, and spiritual synergy that is co-created with a man who meets her as an opposite and equal (which means opposite feminine and masculine polarities with equal levels of consciousness, rights, and responsibilities). Since she may have never experienced a stage five partnership, she needs guidance from a man (like you?) at the same stage of his anima development, who is able to meet her in an integrally informed way. These couples can then form interdependent242 partnerships in which they heal, learn, grow, and enjoy family and social activities together, while contributing to the well-being of others.243

 

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So where are you guys in your development? Men answer from the ANIMA list and Woman from the ANIMUS list.

Its possible to be a mix of many stages and a mix of anima and animus, if so describe your experience. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by integral

[Tyler Robinson]

Nice post but too much theoretical assumption and too psychological.. 

[Tyler Robinson]

I think I'm at all stages at the same time. Doesn't make sense. These are simply different perspectives rather than stages. All of these perspectives are based on conditioning, some evolutionary some cultural. 

 

[Proserpina]

I have a dark animus that tormented me during my second half of my second psychosis.  I’m working to integrate and transform him.  The animus during my first and the first half of my second psychosis was highly evolved and integrated.  I’m not sure why there was a sudden dip. Perhaps it was training wheels before then and my psyche felt safe enough to explore other parts of the masculine, darker sides, within me to integrate and transform.

 Generally, outside psychosis I would place myself at 4.

[integral]

23 hours ago, Tyler Robinson said:

I think I'm at all stages at the same time. Doesn't make sense. These are simply different perspectives rather than stages. All of these perspectives are based on conditioning, some evolutionary some cultural. 

To tell what stage one is in, it depends on what the egos emotional needs are and not what the thinking mind ideally/theoretically understands. When someone transitions from stage 3 to stage 4 animus they loss ALL the things that kept them attached to there partner. There needs completely changed.

Stage 5 when reading it is what the ego ideally wants to be but in practice it is easily satisfied (needs are met) with much less and picks partners at very low levels.

Red pill is stage 2 anima.

Many of the men in the dating section are at stage 2 and stage 3 anima and why they are impossible to reason with lol

Edited September 19, 2022 by integral

[integral]

IDENTIFYING HER ANIMUS COMPLEX

• What is a man to you? What do you expect from a man in relationship with you?
• Tell me ten things that make you feel loved, honored, and respected as a woman?
• What do you think about male-female equality?
• What differences do you see between men and women?
• Are there different roles for men and women in a relationship and our society and what are they?
• What role did your father play in your life and what is your relationship with him today?
• Who were the most significant males in your life, during what period, what role did they play, and howdid they influence you?
• What role did your mother play in your life and what is your relationship with her today?
• What roles did you and your partners play in previous relationships? What makes men attractive to you?
• What kinds of men are unattractive to you?

She may be in stage 1 (men as alien outsider) if she has an ambivalent relationship with her father and other significant men in her early life. Additional indicators are reports of tumultuous love/hate relationships with former partners, longer periods in her life without a male partner, sexual relationships with women, and if she goes back and forth between a desperate clingy desire for your love and then fearful rejections when you get close.

Pointers to a stage 2 animus (men as father, God, or king) are a critical or disapproving father figure whom she never felt to be good enough for. She may speak favorably of kind men who adore, support, and treat her well, and negatively of those who criticize, challenge, or dismiss her. Women in this stage may struggle with aging, can be emotionally needy, constantly ask for approval and reassurance about their lovability, and are afraid to do things wrong.

Indicators of a stage 3 animus complex (men as her hero) are answers that favor loyal, supportive, generous, and loving men with an unwavering commitment to honor and support their wife and children. She likely had a stable childhood and a good relationship with her father and mother, or at least healed most of her earlier emotional wounds. In her eyes, men should know right from wrong, be hard-working, good fathers, family-oriented, heroic, protective (if need be, aggressive towards others), and benevolent towards her.

Women in stage 4 (men as independent being) are particularly easy to identify, as they talk about the financial and emotional independence that they have attained through their own work or through successful divorces after one or more long-term marriages. They express a desire to explore who they are, independent of a committed partnership with a man, and want to live alone, often with a dog or cat that they are proud to love more than they would any man. If women in this stage consider to be in a partnership they often exclaim...“where are all the good men?”...and of course no man within their reach is ever good enough. Successful, up-beat, entertaining, self-assured, and happy men who display empathy, understanding, and support for them while pursuing their own purpose and interests without needing a female partner for sex, approval, support, or “to mother” them are valued by women in this stage, who sometimes maintain uncommitted sexual relationships with younger lovers. Most eco-, radical, and social feminists—who resent men and what they stand for—are found in this stage (or stage 1) as well.

She has arrived in stage 5 of her animus development (men as equal partner) when she realizes the benefits of being in a committed love relationship with an integrally informed man whom she values as an opposite and equal. A woman in this stage sees the benefits of a healthy, live together committed marriage as the foundation for her ongoing personal growth, spiritual development, physical sexual well being, and socially, economically, and ecologically responsible livelihood. Her focus is on the inner qualities of a responsible man who lives his authentic life purpose and can love unconditionally in a committed partnership, instead of his worldly possessions and social status only. A single woman in this stage is a rare find, as she is clear in what she seeks in a life-partner, and actively pursues men who are her equal. She has no problem finding a suitable partner within a few weeks of her opening to relationship if she is attractive and sex-positive,451 as men are naturally conditioned by evolution to be chosen by a healthy woman who honors and values them.

Edited October 4, 2022 by integral

[Ella]

Locating Your Partner and Yourself on the Compatibility Matrix - #Spiral dynamics 
https://integralrelationship.com/compatibility-matrix/ 

[ValiantSalvatore]

To be quiet frank I am somehwere around teal/turqouise with a heavy pull towards green and red, and I do have a very healthy orange drive suprisingly. My red is sometimes out of balance because of projections from 10k areas. 

Tbh I dislike dating a lot, I even attempted to at least date trans and gay people without all to much success, just to see how the stages will unfold. Barely meet anyone who can stomach teal. 

It's quiet boring and frustrating. Co-creation is very rare. Equality currently almost feels like slavery. 

Again Deida has good stuff on this, yet it's quiet cumbersome to be a leader for stage 3/4 women and this fosters a lot of shadows imo and one-up-manship without reading everything. I am being very blunt I could be even more blunt, yet I dunno. 

There is not much stage 5 I am unsure with the "model provided" as I have sources that don't explain it in a lenghty manner and it's also more practical... 

Meeting teal women is rare, and many regress into orange. All these stages should be live also all the time, so there is way more drama in a real relationship. Simply said there are these moments.

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by ValiantSalvatore

[petar8p]

On 9/18/2022 at 6:28 PM, Tyler Robinson said:

I think I'm at all stages at the same time. Doesn't make sense. These are simply different perspectives rather than stages. All of these perspectives are based on conditioning, some evolutionary some cultural. 

I feel the same. That's true..

 

Is this Jung or some hc shit like him?

[Gnosis]

On 9/18/2022 at 0:28 PM, Tyler Robinson said:

I think I'm at all stages at the same time. Doesn't make sense. These are simply different perspectives rather than stages. All of these perspectives are based on conditioning, some evolutionary some cultural. 

 

Largely agree with this.

 

On 9/19/2022 at 11:29 AM, integral said:

To tell what stage one is in, it depends on what the egos emotional needs are and not what the thinking mind ideally/theoretically understands. When someone transitions from stage 3 to stage 4 animus they loss ALL the things that kept them attached to there partner. There needs completely changed.

Stage 5 when reading it is what the ego ideally wants to be but in practice it is easily satisfied (needs are met) with much less and picks partners at very low levels.

Red pill is stage 2 anima.

Many of the men in the dating section are at stage 2 and stage 3 anima and why they are impossible to reason with lol

I see the same issues with these statements as those made by dogmatic MBTI adherents on the internet. Is there no cure to reification? At least pick a theory that's a little less arbitrary.

Frankly, I don't know what it is with Jung, but people seem to be magnetized by his ideas to the point of assuming they understand them better than Jung did. Jung himself fully acknowledged that his ideas were arbitrary, yet every pseudo-neo-Jungian on the internet wants to assume they're more intelligent than Jung.

[DocWatts]

@integral Just wanted to chime in to mention that excerpt in the OP is from Martin Ucik's book: Sex Purpose Love: Couples in Integral Relationships Creating a Better World

https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Purpose-Love-Integral-Relationships/dp/0984570330

Martin is a close friend of a personal friend of mine, so I just wanted to make sure he's recognized for his work 

Edited November 2, 2022 by DocWatts

[King Merk]

I’ve pretty deeply embodied stage 5 Anima development

Over the last 10 years I’ve been in three 2+ year long relationships with some shorter ones mixed in between

These relationships have truly helped me become a better man & relate to women in a healthier way 

[Arcangelo]

#3

[Heart of Space]

On 9/18/2022 at 10:59 AM, Tyler Robinson said:

Nice post but too much theoretical assumption and too psychological.. 

You know I have to agree.  I think this guy overthinks everything.  Like makes assumptions that aren't true.  

Basically, he's a nerd that has no idea what's going on.  

[Tyler Robinson]

1 minute ago, Heart of Space said:

You know I have to agree.  I think this guy overthinks everything.  Like makes assumptions that aren't true.  

Basically, he's a nerd that has no idea what's going on.  

I believe theory can only go so far in explaining the domains of life especially when it comes to dating because dating is not like studying soil and plants. It's not restricted to an individual. It's a dynamic that involves the psyche of both gender. So it definitely requires ground experience or field experience to know and understand the psyche of the other gender and without having experience this can't be achieved. 

In some ways I find it funny that guys on the forum try to dole out relationship advice and their opinions on women when they never had a single girlfriend. It sounds absurd and usually their theories never correspond to what you actually see in romantic relationships. So it's cringe to act like an expert on dating.. Understanding male female dynamic is complicated enough even for those who have had several relationships, it's kinda funny how newbies with zero experience automatically assume that they have everything figured out about dating without having dated anyone 

 

[Heart of Space]

5 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

In some ways I find it funny that guys on the forum try to dole out relationship advice and their opinions on women when they neve

r had a single girlfriend. It sounds absurd and usually their theories never correspond to what you actually see in romantic relationships. So it's cringe to act like an expert on dating.. Understanding male female dynamic is complicated enough even for those who have had several relationships, it's kinda funny how newbies with zero experience automatically assume that they have everything figured out about dating without having dated anyone 

 

Look, I agree. But lets not hate on these guys.  They're lonely and they just need more confidence.  I know, I USED TO BE ONE.  

As a real life ultra-chad I'm happy to dole out real advice to these salty peasants.  

[Tyler Robinson]

22 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

Look, I agree. But lets not hate on these guys.  They're lonely and they just need more confidence.  I know, I USED TO BE ONE.  

As a real life ultra-chad I'm happy to dole out real advice to these salty peasants.  

I'm not hating on anyone. Just pointing out their absurdity. 

By the way you're no ultra-chad, no offense. 

You were so openly disrespectful to me. Ultra-chads or even Chads don't do that. They don't say lame things to draw a woman's attention to themselves. I'll consider you a beta at the most. Alpha tends to lead a conversation. I didn't even  bother to reply to you. By the way I have been with alphas mostly. 

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Tyler Robinson

[something_else]

26 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

In some ways I find it funny that guys on the forum try to dole out relationship advice and their opinions on women when they never had a single girlfriend

This seems like a relatively new phenomena here. I’ve seen like 4 or 5 dudes in the past month like this with stubborn ideas about how dating works or should work, but who also have limited or no experience

In general though, most of the guys giving dating advice here have a reasonable amount of experience I’d say, especially longer term members

I also agree that any dating advice that is overly theoretical is questionable tho. It’s like trying to learn football or basketball by reading books. Yea maybe you can get some valuable info but getting lost in theory is likely detrimental 

Edited November 13, 2022 by something_else

[Tyler Robinson]

1 minute ago, something_else said:

This seems like a relatively new phenomena here. I’ve seen like 4 or 5 dudes in the past month like this with stubborn ideas about how dating works or should work, but who also have limited or no experience

In general though, most of the guys giving dating advice here have a reasonable amount of experience I’d say, especially longer term members

I also agree that any dating advice that is overly theoretical is questionable tho. It’s like trying to learn football or basketball by reading books. Yea maybe you can get some valuable info but getting lost in theory is likely detrimental 

Yea it creates scenarios in your mind that aren't true to fact, and when you use those theories in real life, it's misleading, leading to confusions, chaos, rejections and impaired relationships. Even the best relationships are ruined by being stuck in delusions, grandiosity, biases, idealism and dissonances. The objective of dating advice should be having a clear picture of your own psyche and the psyche of the opposite sex and then learning to communicate harmony between these two psyches, learning to appreciate the differences and finding a middle ground where both sexes are satisfied with their shared goals. 

 

[Heart of Space]

25 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

By the way you're no ultra-chad, no offense. 

You were so openly disrespectful to me. Ultra-chads or even Chads don't do that. They don't say lame things to draw a woman's attention to themselves. I'll consider you a beta at the most. Alpha tends to lead a conversation. I didn't even  bother to reply to you. By the way I have been with alphas mostly. 

I'm hurt that you think so lowly of me.