Pedophilia= the love of children?

[spiritual memes]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Demonization is never truthful nor conscious. And it is antithetical to healing. Hating your abuser is going go double your hurt. So an intelligent mind would not do that to itself.

Anger and hatred for a reason and serve a good function. In fact anger part of the healing process which follows denial and grief. Anger, hatred and demonization is also love. If you loved yourself the same way you loved your child you would be enraged at what happened. Perhaps you're in the denial stage?

[mmKay]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Maybe so legally

Age of consent around the world

[AdeptusPsychonautica]

41 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Here's something really profound you guys are masing: if a kid was seriouslt molested and abused by a pedophile, the only way that kid will be able to fully heal himself is by finally realizing that pedophilia is just love. That's what full integration will require. And so long as you're stuck on demonizing it, you will actually not allow the kid to heal. Which is sad. You are making a bad situation worse.

I think you are having a brain fart and conflating the act itself, with the the person committing the act. While we could look through a certain worldview and say that all people are "love", that does not follow that therefore every act carried out by that person is an act of love. Using your example of Hitler you could say that he, as with any other human being is "love", but to describe gassing the Jews to death as a loving act, would be flat out wrong and renders the word meaningless.

So sure - love Hitler as another deeply flawed human being, but one doesn't need to love the horrific acts carried out under his regime, and the idea that "fully healing" requires that to be the case is 100% bollocks. Healing requires forgiveness, acceptance, letting go, and you can do all of this without "loving" the act, and this is in fact what is happening during healing processes the world over. Having spent some considerable amount of time talking to people who practice healing modalities, from traditional frameworks to modern psychotherapy, then I think its safe to say you are talking out of your arse when you state that the actions of an abuser are "love" and should be accepted as such. Again I would encourage you to go and have some real world experience of these things outside of the Leo-verse, rather than just deciding you know whats best and blurting shit out.

It seems fairly clear from your comments here that you don't have much understanding about what healing and integration actually is, and your use of the word love is so diluted that its strips it of all meaning. I can only guess you use it so broadly to tie it back to your whole "all is one/God/solipsism" shtick, but this is a sensitive topic and requires more nuance. This whole thing really just highlights what a poor grasp you have on the human experience.

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

Healing requires forgiveness, acceptance, letting go

If the abuse is like be a Jew in a Nazi death camp, there will never be any real healing until you realize that you are the Nazis, literally.

[Inliytened1]

22 minutes ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

I think you are having a brain fart and conflating the act itself,

It's precisely the opposite.  As long as you demonize the act itself then you will always be finite and imperfect.  Vulnerable. Because some external act is other than yourself and thus can hurt you.  When you realize this impossibility - you awake. 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Cat_eyes said:

Not True. 

I talk about my experience. My father, etc. Until i realized that everything is me, literally, there was hate. It's a maze, impossible to solve. A shit that makes your life bitter . There was only one way out, the real trascendence of the self. When you encompass everything, you realize that your abuser was just you. tides of energy in existence. they lose the poison. when they have poison again, it is that you are returning to fragmentation

[LSD-Rumi]

@AdeptusPsychonautica

15 minutes ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

conflating the act itself, with the the person committing the act.

Both are Love according to Leo. Love is the substance of the universe, so everything is made of love , And everying is love itself. The doer and the act and the intent of the act are all love. But it takes some real intelligence to understand it. I sometimes get it but many times fail to do so. it so tricky.

[Inliytened1]

12 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

@AdeptusPsychonautica

Both are Love according to Leo. Love is the substance of the universe, so everything is made of love , And everying is love itself. The doer and the act and the intent of the act are all love. But it takes some real intelligence to understand it. I sometimes get it but many times fail to do so. it so tricky.

Oneness must be realized here.  Now - after the realization of Oneness, one can demonize and still create "other".  Here we create "other" because it infringes on our survival.  So we demonize it.  What we want you to realize is that Absolute Truth is beyond or prior to the survival of one particular being.  Thus it is free of bias. 

[LSD-Rumi]

@Inliytened1 Yeah, even if you understand it at a theoritcal level, it doesn't matter,  in practice the ego will control you easily. Without a very solid understanding and emobidment of Love , Love fails. The ego is much closer to the heart than Love. it requires a lot of training to be able to live life from the point of love and no-resistance. 

[D2sage]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

. There is a deep biology to for it. Most girls can have kids at age 14. This is not some accident. If your body can make kids then you also want to fuck.

Truth. It's common to have sex at even 12 years old of age. I grew up in Sweden and we went stealing our parent's vodka and screwed around with others from class ass 12-year-olds.

Heck, I remember myself as an 8-year-old in preschool. Horny fucker who humped other girls with clothes always. We went playing "kyssleken" kissing-game in english.

Is it like the love you have when you kill your daughter's rapist you once said? I kill the rapist out of love for my daughter.

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by D2sage

[Inliytened1]

11 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

@Inliytened1 Yeah, even if you understand it at a theoritcal level, it doesn't matter,  in practice the ego will control you easily. Without a very solid understanding and emobidment of Love , Love fails. The ego is much closer to the heart than Love. it requires a lot of training to be able to live life from the point of love and no-resistance. 

That is true but Love also means realizing Oneness.  In fact the two are identical.  When you realize that other is you, you can still hate.  You can hate aspects of yourself.  But ultimately the realization that there is nothing outside of you will make you realize that you are that which you hate and thus it is impossible to not love that part of you because you ARE it.   A good example is how you don't hate your own farts

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Inliytened1

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, spiritual memes said:

Anger and hatred for a reason and serve a good function. In fact anger part of the healing process which follows denial and grief. Anger, hatred and demonization is also love. If you loved yourself the same way you loved your child you would be enraged at what happened.

Anger is understandable early on in the healing process. But it won't get you far. Serious healing will require letting go of your anger.

Anger is not a very intelligent emotion because it harms you more than it does your abuser. Feel the anger if it exists, but then quickly let it go so you have peace.

1 hour ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

I think you are having a brain fart and conflating the act itself, with the the person committing the act. While we could look through a certain worldview and say that all people are "love", that does not follow that therefore every act carried out by that person is an act of love. Using your example of Hitler you could say that he, as with any other human being is "love", but to describe gassing the Jews to death as a loving act, would be flat out wrong and renders the word meaningless.

No. What I am saying is that gasing the Jews was Love. Every human acts out of love, it's simply that their biases twist how love gets expressed, and also you judge him for it because you are biased as well. So there is a doubling up of bias. If you didn't hold any biases you would not see evil in anything.

From God's POV gasing the Jews is Love. Whether you like that or not is irrelevant.

I know you don't like that, which is exactly why I say it. Because if you are left to your own biased opinions you will never realize what Love is. Which is why I am here. To point out your biases to you.

Quote

your use of the word love is so diluted that its strips it of all meaning. I can only guess you use it so broadly to tie it back to your whole "all is one/God/solipsism" shtick, but this is a sensitive topic and requires more nuance. This whole thing really just highlights what a poor grasp you have on the human experience.

It's not a shtick. Love is the only thing that exists. If you don't understand this you are not Awake.

Human experience is mostly falsehood and delusion, so the highest Truth will not align with it, as it shouldn't. That's not a bug, that's a feature.

The reason I spoke about this pedo stuff at all is because humans are so biased about it. It is a good object lesson. If you cannot see that pedophilia is Love, how will you ever realize God? It is impossible! You're stuck.

You can demonize me all you want but the truth of the matter will never change. It's very easy for me to tell who is serious about truth simply by your reactions to this topic. There are people here who have a mature attitude about this and then there are people who whine and resist like children.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Anger is understandable early on in the healing process. But it won't get you far. Serious healing will require letting go of your anger.

Anger is not a very intelligent emotion because it harms you more than it does your abuser.

No. What I am saying is that gasing the Jews was Love. Every human acts out of love, it's simply that their biases twist how love gets expressed, and also you judge him for it because you are biased as well. So there is a doubling up of bias.

From God's POV gasing the Jews is Love. Whether you like that or not is irrelevant.

I know you don't like that, which is exactly why I say it. Because if you are left to your own biased opinions you will never realize what Love is. Which is why I am here. To point out your biases to you.

It's not a shtick. Love is the only thing that exists. If you don'!t understand this you are not Awake.

Human experience is falsehood and delusion, so the highest Truth will not align with it, as it shouldn't.

Use Oneness.  Oneness is the only thing that exists.  It is easier to grasp then Love.  Otherwise love is viewed from a finite lense .

Edited September 18, 2022 by Inliytened1

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

If the abuse is like be a Jew in a Nazi death camp, there will never be any real healing until you realize that you are the Nazis, literally.

^ Its the only way out. You are correct, anyone who disagrees....just doesn't understand. Blame, guilt, shame, is just an identity game of other. This game of separation is masterfully done to make it real. If it could be realized to be just the mirror game that it truly is....then how can you be harmed?

When someone watches a movie....are they harmed? No, because they don't believe the act is real. But if I added physical pain to the event, smell, taste, all the other sensations till they felt like what was happening in the screen was happening to them....then...they could be damaged.

The irony...is the movie, is happening to them...they just created a distinction between the movie and "them." Which is how we can be harmed or protected. Distinction allows you the option of pleasure, pain, and protection.  I can choose to ignore something, forget something, hate something, etc...

The problem is....since its you....there is no where to run and hating yourself...is how hell is created, and the devil is born.

[AdeptusPsychonautica]

1 hour ago, LSD-Rumi said:

@AdeptusPsychonautica

Both are Love according to Leo. Love is the substance of the universe, so everything is made of love , And everying is love itself. The doer and the act and the intent of the act are all love. But it takes some real intelligence to understand it. I sometimes get it but many times fail to do so. it so tricky.

Oh I understand thats what he is proposing, I just think its demonstrably bollocks, and certainly not a necessy component of full healing

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hello from Russia]

@Leo Gura I have a fear of living through these "tough" experiences that are also Love but at the same time terrifying from a relative POV of a person experiencing them. I wonder if you could give some advice to handle this fear?

It exists as sort of existential tremor inside. I can totally recognize and be thankful for that my current life experience is not relatively bad as it could possible be (could be infinitely worse). But I have a hard time accepting a possibility that at some time my dream can become a total nightmare.

And I have a desire to do anything in my power to avoid such a nightmare as I seemingly tired af from it existentially (maybe grown tired also from past lifetimes too if they exist) 

[spiritual memes]

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Anger is understandable early on in the healing process. But it won't get you far. Serious healing will require letting go of your anger.

Anger is not a very intelligent emotion because it harms you more than it does your abuser. Feel the anger if it exists, but then quickly let it go so you have peace.

I agree that anger should be let go to truly heal. But anger is absolutely necessary at the beginning stage it serves the purpose of telling you 'NO! what happened was fucked up and must never happen again'. It pushes you to take action in your reality and only once you know you are safe, you can then heal. The anger is there to protect and avenge the scared and helpless part of you that you have probably repressed.

Once you have truly felt and worked through the anger then you should let go of it to fully heal. But by choosing to not feel anger because of some spiritual principle, you are not healing. Only spiritual bypassing.

[Danioover9000]

@Danioover9000

On 9/17/2022 at 1:08 AM, Danioover9000 said:

love

noun

1.

an intense feeling of deep affection.

"babies fill parents with feelings of love"

Similar:

deep affection, fondness, tenderness, warmth, intimacy, attachment, endearment, devotion, adoration, doting, idolization, worship, passion, ardour, desire, lust, yearning, infatuation, adulation, besottedness, compassion, care, caring, regard, solicitude, concern, friendliness, friendship, kindness, charity, goodwill, sympathy, kindliness, altruism, philanthropy, unselfishness, benevolence, brotherliness, sisterliness, fellow feeling, humanity, relationship, love affair, affair, romance, liaison, affair of the heart, intrigue, amour

Opposite:

hatred

2.

a great interest and pleasure in something.

"his love for football"

Similar: liking, weakness, partiality, bent, leaning, proclivity, inclination, disposition, enjoyment, appreciation, soft spot, taste, delight, relish, passion, zeal, appetite, zest, enthusiasm, keenness, predilection, penchant, fondness.

verb

1.

feel deep affection for (someone).

"he loved his sister dearly"

Similar: be in love with, be infatuated with, be smitten with, be besotted with, be passionate about, care very much for, feel deep affection for, hold very dear, adore, think the world of, be devoted to, dote on, cherish, worship,, idolize, treasure, prize, be mad/crazy/nuts/wild about, have a pash on, carry a torch for, be potty about

Opposite:

hate, loathe, detest.

2.

like or enjoy very much.

"I just love dancing"

Similar: like very much, delight in, enjoy greatly, have a passion for, take great pleasure in, derive great pleasure from, have a great liking for.

 

Definitions of pedophilia, from Merrian Webster and Wikipedia:(google apparently didn't define pedophilia in their first page, interesting).

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiOwKy9wpr6AhVMVsAKHaNGAt0QFnoECAcQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.merriam-webster.com%2Fdictionary%2Fpedophilia&usg=AOvVaw346icsr-PvX6NmJS4mEzeY

and

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiOwKy9wpr6AhVMVsAKHaNGAt0QFnoECAQQAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FPedophilia%23%3A~%3Atext%3DPedophilia%20(alternatively%20spelt%20paedophilia)%20is%2Csexual%20attraction%20to%20prepubescent%20children.&usg=AOvVaw2VNerI_TA_AtMl-X6RxtWS

   So, I think that if we want to have a deep and fruitful conversation, we need to first provide some definitions of the topic or word we are interested in and discuss from there. However, I felt that this thread, from how it started, wasn't ideal because we didn't start off with strong and clear definitions for the topic and related ideas around it, namely what love is, what sex is, and also, epistemically, how do we know and what to consider what is or isn't love. Because we didn't start off clearly, the entire thread devolved into a war of semantics, which then opened up possibilities of other users derailing the thread, from talking about pedophilia and love and Leo's questionable blog post, to now talking about ex lovers, rapists, maybe pornography, while arguing for each other's unclear definitions and positions on the original matter.

   

   Okay, so back to topic: Do any of you agree or disagree with my framing?

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

@Leo Gura I have a fear of living through these "tough" experiences that are also Love but at the same time terrifying from a relative POV of a person experiencing them. I wonder if you could give some advice to handle this fear?

It exists as sort of existential tremor inside. I can totally recognize and be thankful for that my current life experience is not relatively bad as it could possible be (could be infinitely worse). But I have a hard time accepting a possibility that at some time my dream can become a total nightmare.

And I have a desire to do anything in my power to avoid such a nightmare as I seemingly tired af from it existentially (maybe grown tired also from past lifetimes too if they exist) 

It's simple. Surrender to the full nightmare.

14 minutes ago, spiritual memes said:

I agree that anger should be let go to truly heal. But anger is absolutely necessary at the beginning stage it serves the purpose of telling you 'NO! what happened was fucked up and must never happen again'. It pushes you to take action in your reality and only once you know you are safe, you can then heal. The anger is there to protect and avenge the scared and helpless part of you that you have probably repressed.

Once you have truly felt and worked through the anger then you should let go of it to fully heal. But by choosing to not feel anger because of some spiritual principle, you are not healing. Only spiritual bypassing.

As I said, if anger exists, feel it. Obviously don't suppress it. But you don't have to stew in it. You can start to quickly let it go. The anger will be masking the true emotion that must be deal with, which is hurt. You are angry because you were hurt, and so this hurt needs to be faced. Anger actually obscures that.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Leo Gura

[spiritual memes]

8 minutes ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

Oh I understand thats what he is proposing, I just think its demonstrably bollocks, and certainly not a necessy component of full healing

While I agree with you on your second statement, I don't think you've truly considered his argument. Leo is arguing that love is the primary substance of reality and therefore everything in the universe is love, including that which you perceive to be evil. What you define as good and evil are human constructs that help you survive. Therefore to fully accept reality you have see every aspect of it as love.

Even if you want to be logical and scientific about this, reality is just a bunch of vibrating quantum fields according to the currently accepted view of physics. These quantum fields are neither good nor evil but the mind projects good and evil onto reality to benefit survival.

Of course, none of this is particularly practical for healing or living a human life, but actualized isn't really about that anyway.